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Author
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Topic: Question about Emmons Fat Back P/P
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David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 07 September 2001 08:12 AM
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Does anybody know why Emmons came out with this design? Thanks
David
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Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 07 September 2001 08:23 AM
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Around 1970 or 71 I believe. Mike Cass or Bobbe Seymour could tell you for sure. My '69 S-12 is cutout and my '71 D-10 was a fatback (until Mike cut out the back apron for me).
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 09:09 AM
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Yes, this design was incorporated for 3 1/2 years. It's reason for being is that it is a much stronger design, and made possible the installation of a anti-bowing strap to be installed on the rear board of the body. Emmons was having a problem sense its inception with the body bowing out, and the cross shafts exiting the bottom of the guitar. Steel cross straps and anti-bowing straps were installed to keep this from happening. This flat back design also was a little easier and less expensive to produce. The disadvantage of this design was less leg clearance under the guitar, and additional weight. I have been playing one of these guitars since 1975. It is a 1971 model, and it is priceless to me. It is heavier than a lot of guitars, however it is more than worth the added weight in tone and dependability. These guitars today, being rare, are sought after by hard core disciminating players that appreciate their unique qualities. These guitars are called fat backs, flat backs, or non-cut backs. Are they worth more than the other Emmons? No, but they are worth no less either. They were made with wide pedal spacing (2 3/4"), and the later flat backs had 2 1/2" spacing. All had the steel reinforcment pedal stop bar on the front apron, as opposed to the wood ones on the earlier guitars. All had the thick aluminum end castings, and the thinner steel bell cranks. Serial numbers on these guitars were from the 1400's to the 1900's, with a few cut back guitars manufactored along with these. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 07 September 2001 09:09 AM
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I had a 71 fatback, S/N 1464D. I got it new in April or May of 71. |
Glenn Austin
Member From: Montreal, Canada
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posted 07 September 2001 09:49 AM
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Was the fatback also manufactured as a single neck? Because my S 10 has a metal strap from front to back, and the back apron is not cutout either. It also has a metal pedal stop along the inside front apron, and apparently dates around 70-72. |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 07 September 2001 11:01 AM
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Thanks guys, Bobbe I figured you would have the answer!  I kind of suspected that's why they came up with this design. A little more leg clearance would be nice, but for the same reasons you mentioned, I can live without it.Take Care
David
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 02:16 PM
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Yes Glenn, There were many flat back s-10's built ,but, The strap I'm talking about is running along the full length of the body. It just keeps the back board from bending. Anyone ever notice that the P-P guitars have no cabnet drop? There are two reasons for this.
Next chapter!
Bobbe----the serious guy. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 02:17 PM
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Jack Stoner, My flat back Emmons p-p is # 1554 D----- There never was a bad one.
Bobbe |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 07 September 2001 03:19 PM
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Bobbe,,,boy am I glad I saw this post..I have one of those guitars with no cutout in the back,,I wondered why others had the cutout in the apron and mine didnt ...The serial number on my Emmons is #1399 I had Ron build it for me(Fred Trogden) back in 1969....I have been told that this model
has little or no cabinet drop. I have enough things that have dropped,,,so Im happy at least this is not one of them.
When I lift the guitar however,,,,,things do "drop" but not the cabinet......no wonder
they call you The EE,,,,Emmons Expert,,,
There is the big "E" and you are the "double" "E"......thanks for this info.
Looks like I got in just in time,,,,if the serial numbers started with app: 1400,,,, |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 07 September 2001 03:23 PM
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Mine is #1517, Birdseye sunburst with alluminum necks 9/6. Tone to die for. I've had four of these guitars and they were all great guitars. Two 71's and two 72's |
Ole Dantoft
Member From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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posted 07 September 2001 03:29 PM
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Bobbe,
It was a pleasure to meet you at the ISGC !
We spoke briefly about my P/P, and it's a D10 #1646, 9+4 with the large pedals and narrow spacing, plays like butter and sounds like a dream.Oh, did I mention that I like that guitar ?  Jack, nice meetin' you too !! In fact, it was a fabulous weekend overall !! Ole[This message was edited by Ole Dantoft on 07 September 2001 at 03:29 PM.] |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 07 September 2001 03:57 PM
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Bobbe,,I think I spoke too soon,,I just looked under the guitar,,,it has two(2) straps going across the guitar,,,I dont see anything going the full length of the guitar.Since I really dont play it often and probably have app 100 hours on it ,,,I wouldnt really have anything to compare it to. It is mint condition,,,,9 pedals and 6 knee levers,,black,red case,...If there would be a strap running the length of the guitar ,,,would it be visible?? as for the sound,,,I am not an expert on that either,I know it sounds good when others have played it,,,but maybe my ears are used to that Fender sound,,,I will e mail you a few pictures of this guitar,,,,I did send you the one of my Bigsby right? I unfortunatly do not have a knee lever raising the 2 e's to f" I dont recall if that change was in vogue back then,,,Im really old and out of it
so I should have a knee lever changed to do that raise for me,,,,,there are a couple of knee levers that are not necessary as far as what they do,.....so I can probably have someone make that modification for me.... BTW the pickups on both necks are wound to
20.000 ohms I know that,,,Ron was going to wind the e 9th pickup to 15,000 ohms,,,I told him I liked a "fatter sound" no my wife is not fat,,,,but I do like a fat sound,,,this has a good sound,,,when someone else plays it... |
Chris Lucker
Member From: Los Angeles, California USA
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posted 07 September 2001 04:30 PM
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Jody,
I believe the lengthwise reinforcer that Bobbe is referring to is the steel pedal stop found along the length of the front apron. Prior to this model of Emmons the pedal stop was made of maple.
Chris
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KENNY FORBESS
Member From: peckerwood point, w. tn.
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posted 07 September 2001 04:39 PM
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What Bobbe is referring to is a steel strap or flat piece of metal(if you will)that is running(screwed on) ON the bottom of the front & rear apron,
They are either painted or flocked, lot's of people don't even know they're there,
ain't that right Bobbe ??David I know for a fact, you got a goodern.
The old 71 Weldon rosewood !! Edited for spelling
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kenny
66 Emmons 8&7
Derby D-10 9&8
[This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 07 September 2001 at 04:42 PM.]
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 05:36 PM
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Yes Kenny, You are correct! They are flocked from the factory and most folks don't know they are there.The piece used as a pedal stop running down the front is steel on the 1970 models 'till the end of production and has nothing to do with the reenforcement straps.Maple was used as the pedal stops before that. Most folks never knew this was wood on the earlier models.
Jody , WOW, and I envied you for the bigsby!It sounds like you have a Emmons to die for.I am in love with that model! If you ever deside to -----well, you know.
Ole' it was such a pleasure and a real shock to see you and get to talk to you at the covention!Never thought I'd have this chance.I wish all steel players could have met you and seen what a great person you are. After watching Tom Morrell, Mike Weirauch, Bill Lawrence,and Jeff Peterson in our drinking mode,you may never want to visit the states or ever meet any americans again!
Bobbe "love those P-P's" Seymour! [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 07 September 2001 at 05:40 PM.] |
Richard Sinkler
Member From: Fremont, California
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posted 07 September 2001 05:45 PM
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Bobbe.. You know that with all this knowledge and the willingness to share it, you will never be permitted to pass on.  |
Ole Dantoft
Member From: Copenhagen, Denmark
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posted 07 September 2001 05:51 PM
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Bobbe,
I'm sure happy I ran into you as well !! And NO - having a drink or maybe two, I don't remember , with you and the guys DIDN'T exactly scare me away !! In fact I think we were both forced to leave at closing time, weren't we ?Ole[This message was edited by Ole Dantoft on 07 September 2001 at 05:52 PM.] |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 07 September 2001 05:53 PM
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Chris & Kenny....I think I have found the rod
I have been lying on my back all night looking for the rod,,,it looks like it is located on the apron front & rear but is hardly noticeable,,,,Thanks alot all my life I have had to deal with "middle legs" now after all these years Im looking for a rod.Ya never know what you will find when you lift up an apron....Im gonna look again to make sure...Thanks,,,never too old to learn. I think I feel it ,,,it is the same width as the apron ,,,wow,,,and I never knew I had it. Great sounding guitar,,,but I have never played it through a Peavey,,,,for obvious reasons,,,I was a Fender guy,,,wonder how it would sound through a PV?? I wouldnt want leo to find all this out,,,,I would die and
"go to hell" I have been told to go there many times,,,,,,thanks again,,,I know Leo is watching me.....even as I write this....
Sorry Leo "only kidding" |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 07 September 2001 05:59 PM
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Bobbe,,,PP ,,,look under the apron?? This sounds like X rated info,,,,,saw your post after I posted my last reply,,,Appreciate all your help guys..especially you
Mr. Seymour,,see ya never know what ya have till its too late,,,I almost sold this guitar a little while back,,,,,,glad I didnt.I'll bet it will sound even better now that I know I have that support rod,,,,and Black does sound better doesn't it,,,,how about my pickup ohmage 20.000 each does that
sound like a good mix?,,,, |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 06:23 PM
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Yes Ole' I guess you did stick with us 'till the end, I do remember them throwing us out around three o'clock, I think I stepped on Mike Wierauch's hands right after that as he was crawling to his linnen closet.The maids threw him out a couple hours later and made him sleep in the hall with me!(and Morrell).
Jody-----Those guitars sound good with the Ferder Twin amp and several others in the Fender line. I am a dealer for Peavey however I cut many sessions from 69 to 74 with The product we now call the "F" word. (Fender). I loved the little black face Prinston Reverb.Is there anything that sounds that good and is so small and light today? Peavey may come out with a Nashville 100 (one hundred) in the near future but don't tell anyone cuz it's 'spose to be a secret.I bet they won't tell me anything else in confidence!
Jody, I can see you right now, under that great guitar , looking for this stuff we are talking about. How many other treasures do you have in there?
By the way, I have been using Sho-Bud amps at the Nashville Palace while subing for Mike Sweeney.My favorite is one that was Jimmy Days Xmas tree amp, A 12' CTS speaker and it's great. not to loud but tone is beyond wonderful.
This is a great post, lets go to 300,
Bobbe
Bobbe |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 06:27 PM
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Richard Sinkler, If only that could be true!
You are very nice, thank you!
Bobbe |
Jay Ganz
Member From: Out Behind The Barn
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posted 07 September 2001 07:21 PM
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 [This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 09 October 2002 at 09:39 AM.] |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 07 September 2001 07:29 PM
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Aren't all lacquer Emmons fat backs? |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2001 07:55 PM
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Jim, no,-------Jay, your a show off, I love it! Great picture!
Jim , I have had them both ways but it does seem to lean toward what you said. |
John Lacey
Member From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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posted 08 September 2001 07:43 AM
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Hey Bobbe, mine is a 1329 and is a flat back. Must have slipped under the wire. Ganz, you have too many beautiful guitars. Let's see a shot of the front of that horn. |
Michael McGee
Member From: Everton, Missouri, USA
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posted 08 September 2001 12:37 PM
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Mine is a fatback. Serial number 2002. Absolutely wonderful guitar.Mike McGee |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 08 September 2001 09:27 PM
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FATBACKS FOREVER!!!!
Bobbe--P-P-- # 1554-D |
John Lacey
Member From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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posted 09 September 2001 07:51 AM
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Bobbe, maybe this should be aimed at Jay Dee, but when I ran into him some years back he suggested getting a '68-69 model of Emmons. Any definitive reason why? |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 09 September 2001 10:29 AM
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Yes John, The advantage of the '68-69 is weight,pedal spacing (if you like the wider)and the scarcity of the '69 model,(only 53 built). The 68 and69 had a wood pedal stop, not metal like the 70 up models. Some folks like this and call it an advantage. The rest of us prefer a slight more weight with a stronger body. Most folks prefer the closer modern pedal spacing of the later guitars.J.D Maness prefers the earlier. I love them all. Obviously ,fatbacks were built from the 1300 numbers to at least the 2000 numbers,with the cut up back also being built along with them in much lesser quanitys. The differences in all these great guitars were slight and any changes made during manufacture were neither good nor bad, just different.ALL sounded incredable!
Bobbe
(edited for spelling,naturally!)[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 09 September 2001 at 10:33 AM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 09 September 2001 10:37 AM
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Several years ago , I sold J.D. numbers 1199-D and # 1215-D.I know that he used these for several years and has possibly sold one of them by now.
Bobbe |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 09 September 2001 02:39 PM
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Bobbe,,,as I mentioned mine is serial # 1399
It looks like a metal strip going along the
length of the apron,,I cant really tell as it
is covered with "flacking"
Do you have a record of those guitars that were mfg in 1969??,,,I would be interested in knowing,,,,I have the original bill of sale,,,,how would I know if the strip is wood
or metal,,( stupid question I know) but would like to know what it is. All my life I have never learned as much as on the Forum,,,,the other guy Hankey has a Marathon going on,,,and Im here looking under
my guitar in the dark with a flashlite. My wife came in at 2 oclock this morning,,,she saw me on the floor with the flash light and said,,,What are you doing???
I said go to sleep,,,Im looking for my strip. A guy my age looking for a strip,,a stripper I can see ,,,,,but a guitar strip??
Sorry had to "edit" my flashlight batteries went dead.....damm those "eveready" batteries[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 09 September 2001 at 02:42 PM.] |
Jay Ganz
Member From: Out Behind The Barn
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posted 09 September 2001 05:47 PM
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Here ya go John > > > >
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 "Turn up the dang STEEL!!!"
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 10 September 2001 09:03 AM
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Jody, On the pedal stop where you connect the pedal rods, and the adjustment screw hits, you can use a magnet to check if it is steel or wood.This piece will be totally flocked,(just like my career). I feel your guitar will be metal since it is a fat-back. Jody, we are all glad your back on here being the funny-self that you used to be.I've spent many hours on the floor laughing at your great humor. Wish I had all the great guitars you have had and wish I had them right now.
Your buddy,
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 10 September 2001 at 09:04 AM.] |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 10 September 2001 12:41 PM
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Bobbe,,,,you are a "genius" I would have never thought of that,,,yes the "magnet" sticks,,,,,,appreciate that..I dont have the guitars you think I have,,,,I wished I had that Bigsby back though.All I have now is a Quad stringmaster 24/1/2
A Custom triple mint condition
and the Emmons,,,,thats all I have left...
Thanks for the info....appreciate it....now I dont have to lie on my back with "I got tears in my ears from lying on my back on the floor when I think about you Bobbe Seymour. It rhymes too Homer & Jethro "circa
1950 [This message was edited by Jody Carver on 10 September 2001 at 05:08 PM.] |
chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 10 September 2001 12:55 PM
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i'm just trying to learn how to get pics up....check these to see not-too-great pics of the 'Fat One' i rebuilt and refinished last year.....and thanx to the forum members who helped with their generous knowledge when i had questions!
http://pedalsteel.homestead.com/files/embk.JPG http://pedalsteel.homestead.com/files/emlogo.JPG http://pedalsteel.homestead.com/files/emdrkbk.JPG http://pedalsteel.homestead.com/files/end.JPG http://pedalsteel.homestead.com/files/MY_DO114.JPG i don't know how to make 'em all come up automatically and on the same page yet.... hey bobbe s., do you or anyone else know where to get the metal strips fot the bottom edges of the cabinet you're talking about....mine are gone, and i do have some cab-drop.....but also a very bitchin' tone!
dual coil pickups. i have just over $7 total invested in this steel.....and it's worth every penny!
[This message was edited by chris ivey on 10 September 2001 at 01:02 PM.]
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chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 10 September 2001 01:11 PM
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oops...now the edit isn't bringing up the whole post so that would be ..."for" the bottom...and 'split coil' pickups or whatever it's called with the switch selecting all or half ot the coil.[This message was edited by chris ivey on 10 September 2001 at 01:13 PM.] [This message was edited by chris ivey on 25 April 2003 at 03:53 PM.] |
Bob Knight
Member From: Bowling Green KY
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posted 10 September 2001 01:21 PM
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Chris,
The metal strips are just flat strap type stock, 1/8" thick X 3/8" wide X 31" long mounted with counter sunk flat head wood screws on the bottom edges of the aprons. It shoud be readily available. ------------------
Bob
'71 Emmons D10, 8&4
Peavey DPC 1400
Peavey TransTube Fex
Peavey Classic 112es BW
Peavey Classic 115es BW |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 10 September 2001 02:40 PM
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What he said! |
Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
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posted 10 September 2001 03:24 PM
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*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 01:52 PM.] |
Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 12 September 2001 01:08 PM
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Bobby, Is Sonny Garrish's guitar after these
fatbacks? If so what Year? Greg | |
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