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Author
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Topic: Waco vs. Arlington
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Rodney Shuffler
Member From: Montgomery, Texas USA (Home of the Bears)
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posted 14 October 2001 10:54 AM
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I'd like to hear from you folks who are into MCI steels the differences between Waco and Arlington models. I know some of it (welded frames blah, blah), but would like to know more. I've had a nice fella offer an MCI Waco (Black 8&4) for $1,000.00 + shipping. I don't really know much about 'em at all. Were they all made with wood necks, or do some have aluminum necks?Thanks in advance for the responses. ------------------
Rod's Place
[This message was edited by Rodney Shuffler on 14 October 2001 at 10:55 AM.] |
Ann Fabian
Member From: Mesquite, Texas, USA
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posted 14 October 2001 11:14 AM
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For information about Waco and early Arlington MCI's, please feel free call and talk with Bud Carter directly at the Carter Steel Guitars' Factory, 972-288-9100.[This message was edited by Ann Fabian on 23 December 2001 at 07:39 AM.]
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Jim Cohen
Member From: Philadelphia, PA
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posted 14 October 2001 12:27 PM
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Sounds like there were no "substantive" differences between the Waco and Arlington models that would justify one as an "intermediate" model and the other as "professional" model. Just metal vs wood necks (either one can be on a "pro" model), plus metal trim and a new logo. Same pickups on both too. Did I get that right? |
Jody Sanders
Member From: Magnolia,Texas
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posted 14 October 2001 01:49 PM
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Hi Rodney, My EMCI has George L pickups. If you would like to check it out, give me a call. 281 356 7310. PS It is not for sale. Jody. |
Bill C. Buntin
Member From: back at home in Cleburne, TX
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posted 14 October 2001 03:33 PM
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I've had one each. The Waco model I had, you couldn't tell a dime's worth of difference between it and the Arlington model. But after some research my Waco model had been altered from original. My Arlington model was a NICE guitar. It is another one of those "Wish I still had it" stories. |
P Perry
Member From: Waynesville, OH, USA
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posted 15 October 2001 09:20 AM
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I have an SD-10 Arlington Model. It as well as quite a few others came stock with Barcus Berry pick ups.------------------
Phil Perry
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 October 2001 03:25 PM
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Gene Fields, John Birkhead,Where do these guys fit in this picture? When did Bud write this Ann? I was buying many guitars a month in '87.88,and 89 from John Birkhead at EMCI in Arlington TX. As a matter of fact I regret to admit that I'm responsible for the EMCI purchase by Fred Gretsch. I am also assured that it was Gene Fields, now of GFI, and John Birkhead(the president from day one of MCI and EMCI)that designed the EMCI. Didn't Gene Fields invent the welded frame of the EMCI after Bud was dismissed from the company? If Bud left the co in '85, did he still keep up with what was going on there like us dealers had to? Doesn't MCI stand for "Merrel Communications Inc.? Wasn't John Birkhead the president of the guitar division of this rich multi facited co.?
As a matter of fact John and I are thinking of writing "The MCI Story" as this is going on now. Consultants will be the dealers involved,Gene Fields,John Birkhead,I'm sure Bud Carter will also be interviewed, I'll be checking all the spelling in this publication. I have a video of Buddy playing a EMCI in Knoxville TN. in 1988,Blue , I believe, maybe it was '87.or even 89? |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 October 2001 03:55 PM
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Also on this video tape, of which there are many copys,Stony Stoncipher made the announcement that the "E" in EMCI was put there because of Buddy's new involvement and endorsment of the co.(there had to be a name change because the parent co,MCI, was getting out of the music business) It was also announced that "EMCI" would be moving to Nashville Tn.. Mr.Birkhead took total control and responsibility of the manufacture of the steel guitars at this time
The new address was to be 201 Elm Hill Pike. Naturally, this never happend, why is going to be revealed in the book. I was VERY involved with this (EMCI) company through these years and was the top seller of this brand. John Birkhead called me one day and said that if I could sell 12 guitars a month, he'd give me the 13th one free! I got seven free guitars in a row!,Yep, I did some heavy discounting to accomplish this, even took a loss a couple times, but made it back on the free ones. I was also setting some sales records for the Emmons co. at the same time.These were great times, I think these are good times too. Just a lot diffrent,things have changed a lot.For the better? I don't know. I hope so. Ann, tell Bud to call me if he wants to know what happend after 1985.
Bobbe |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 October 2001 04:14 PM
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Anyone ever notice the similaritys between GFI and EMCI construction? Want to know more about EMCI? Call Gene Fields at 817-784-3555. Or me at 615-859-7666, or, wait for the book.
After Fred Grestch bought the co,(60.000$)I only recieved 14 guitars before it was announced that their would be no more guitars manufactured and all the machinery was going to be used to build drums,and such. The "EMCI" company was then offered to me for $60.000,WITHOUT THE MACHINES! Just the name and the tooling,now that I think about it, that may not have been that bad a deal! It's a GOOD guitar. Maybe I or someone out there should buy EMCI, it's still for sale. Just call Duke Kramer if your really intrested! I just talked to him last month. Call me for more detales if intrested. Good information on this post or not?
Bobbe--The history major (cuz I was involved) Am I posting to much here?
Am I boring 'yall?
Does anyone REALLY care? I 'spose none of this is really important,but, it's some inside steel guitar history that I was involved in, first hand. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 October 2001 at 04:28 PM.] |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 17 October 2001 04:44 PM
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So, uh..., um..., how can I say it?... okay, what happened to the guitars that used to be in Ben Jack's museum? |
Rodney Shuffler
Member From: Montgomery, Texas USA (Home of the Bears)
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posted 17 October 2001 05:07 PM
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As my hero Steve Erkle would say......."Did I do that?!?!" I'm into the history of all of it too........but was really wonderin' about the differences in quality etc...If the Waco MCI was an intermediate level guitar, what made it so? Price alone? I ain't tryin' to start nothin' here.....but I think Bobbe is probably guarding a wealth of historical information on this (and many other) instruments; I like to hear it as well. What I'm wonderin' is: If a fella can pick up a Waco MCI for a grand, is it gonna be a Pro level instrument even though it was marketed as an intermediate? I'm thinkin' the opposite is happening right now, no names......but there is a popular steel being made right now that is marketed as a Pro level instrument, but by my standards.....and the little I have seen of new instruments......I'd call it an intermediate axe.......and it's priced accordingly as well. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 October 2001 05:15 PM
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They all went to John Birkhead, he admitted to the liquidation of them, I'm not sure he's happy about that now,He didn't get the Bigsbys. Some how Herb, I think you know more than your letting on! He! He!. This may get to the book also, boy , am I ever busy!
Bobbe,(Herbs only friend!) He He He! |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 October 2001 05:24 PM
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Rodney, It IS a pro guitar! Ask a player!
Would Curly Chalker play a intermediate guitar? Less than pro? I think not! The Waco MCI is a great sounding and playing instrument,many pro players have and are doing it. The last job Curly ever played was on the Black Waco MCI, at Gabes Lounge in Nashville. He died 3 weeks later, He was one of the greatest!
Bobbe |
Jody Sanders
Member From: Magnolia,Texas
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posted 17 October 2001 09:56 PM
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Bobbe, Wasn't Red Rhodes involved for a short time with EMCI ? Jody. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 18 October 2001 10:25 AM
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Jody, He had one but wasn't really involved to my knowledge,and all I can dig up. I know he offered advise on certain things,don't know if it was ever heeded.
Bobbe-------good to hear from you Jody! |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 18 October 2001 10:28 AM
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I worked for MCI and EMCI around 1985-1986 doing final assembly and tuning part time after Bud Carter left. Shortly thereafter Gene Fields and Red Rhodes came on board. It was Gene that came up with the welded frame idea, which he uses on his GFI's today.Buddy Emmons was playing their guitars at the time and I got to do final assembly and tuning on a couple of them. One of the guitars I assembled may have been the one he used on his Christmas album.  Here is the favorite story of my whole pedal steel career: Sometime after assembling and shipping my first guitar to Buddy, MCI was getting ready to assemble another one for him. John Birkhead told Buddy that he would have one of the girls assemble it for him. Buddy said (approximately), "The first guitar Jim sent to me is the only guitar I have ever received from any company that I was able to just sit down and play, without having to tear it half apart and hook up everything again. I'll wait for Jim to assemble this one too." BTW, per his request, I tuned every string and pull to straight up 440, which was the first I heard of him doing that. ------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@home.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-13 8&8=-
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 18 October 2001 11:11 AM
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Jim, I loved this story! This is what I need for the book! Can I use this? |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 18 October 2001 11:27 AM
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Sure you can. I'm very proud to have had "God" tell me I did a good job!  |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 18 October 2001 02:22 PM
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Bless thee my child! |
Clarence E Wilson
Member From: morgantown wv usa
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posted 18 October 2001 02:31 PM
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So, Where can i obtain some of those rubber
bands the size of a pinky, which are used on my guitar,U12, to hold the rods in the slots?
CEW------------------
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Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 18 October 2001 03:34 PM
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Um, Bobbe, I wasn't referring to you.  Clarence, I think if you take one to a hardware store, you'll be able to find an O-ring that will work. |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 18 October 2001 09:48 PM
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I usually stay out of these things - - - but not tonight. As I read these posts, I have scribbled some responses to them. Now I'm NOT saying that there is some "mis-information here, but I'm POSITIVE of what I know, and remember. First off: My M.C.I. was purchased from Gene Fields - he was the ONLY person that I EVER talker to. I remember this being in 1985, as I purchased this guitar with insureance settlement money that we got from the ONLY "break-in" that we ever had at that country music hall that I was playing at. This guitar has the two small seams in the welded frame EXACTLY the way the E.M.C.I. does. Secondly - I sold a BRAND NEW E.M.C.I. Guitar to a man from Wheatland In., that was EXACTLY IN EVERY WAY to my M.C.I. Now here goes!! I have always tried to be careful what I said here, and even more importantly how I said it, but MY LORD, ANYONE who can't look at A Waco M.C.I., - I have a friend who owns one now (it's been passed around a few times), and the M.C.I. that I still own today, or the M.C.I. guitar that B.E. posed with, or the E.M.C.I. Guitars that we're made until the end
(thanks Freddie - ya' did it again) and can't tell more than a subtle differance better go back and start over. There are OBIVIOUS differances in the guitars. Now in closing, let me say that my intenion has never been to offend. I still own my M.C.I., among others, and probably always will. Yes - these guitars are still both in "good Ol' South Central Indiana" if anyone wants inspect thh old M.C.I., and my '85 for the many differances. Oh by the way, I've been a dealer, and I'll try to cleanse this some - I guess that maybe I've cooled A little - a bad day followed by a "not to great night", But, I,ve said this before - and right here - "If you want something to turn to S _ _ _ ('zat better??), just turn it over to Fred Gretsch, trust me - they can do it in record time!!! Hey - Someday when I get time I'll tell you about the "clown" that I had once for a "factory rep.", you've all heard of him, and maybe about the fools that he got hooked up with as a company. Fear not folks - to hear him tell it, they we're the FINEST people in the world - right up to the time that he could get away from them... I'd better go for now - hell, I might even start mentionin' names. Hey Cass -- I see what 'u' talkin' 'bout!!! |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 19 October 2001 07:30 AM
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Jimmie, I don't see any misinformation here. Yes, Gene Fields worked for MCI. Yes, he came up with the idea for the welded frame. And yes, he was with the company when the name changed to EMCI.Maybe you got the impression that the welded frames were only used after the change to EMCI. That is not the case, the two aren't related at all. MCI started using the welded frames and continued to use them after the name change to EMCI. |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 19 October 2001 11:34 PM
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It really doesn't make any difference to me what-so-ever. It does seem to me that I'm reading conflicting information in differant parts of this subject though. I didn't think that maybe the welded frame came into being when M.C.I. (Arlington) became E.M.C.I. as you suggest, because as I stated in my post,I have one. Perhaps I should re-read this subject. Well, I just did, and I still see it the same way. Sorry... |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 20 October 2001 08:57 AM
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Jimmy, all this matters to me,I need the true facts, I care and I have a very open mind,Both of you(Jim and Jimmy)are helping me, keep it up! Thank you , ALL of you!
If it's a fact or you believe it to be,and not just hearing something second hand, I want to know. Misinformation we don't need. As far as I can see, this has only happend once on this post so far, and not from you guys,And not knowingly from from this person, They were just repeating what they were told(most likly). Thanks, true facts are what we need.
And Jim and Jimmy,everything you say matters,and thank you!!!
By the way, anyone remember a girl named Tony at MCI? Possibly another unsung hero.I believe she put many a horn together. What happend to her?
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 20 October 2001 at 09:47 AM.] |
patrick donovan
Member From: orange, texas, usa
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posted 20 October 2001 02:23 PM
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Bobbe!!!Write the book!! Inquiring minds want to know!!
regards, Patrick
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 20 October 2001 08:39 PM
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As you can tell, I am sort of gathering info as I go here, More than info though, I'm kinda lookin' for the places to get correct info from, ( not to end a sentence with a preposition ).
Bobbe |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 21 October 2001 12:25 AM
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By the way - - The OLD (Waco) M.C.I. that my friend here owns has an alunimun neck - and heeeeere we go again......... |
Rodney Shuffler
Member From: Montgomery, Texas USA (Home of the Bears)
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posted 21 October 2001 08:23 AM
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I've seen MSA steels with metal necks, but that's not the way they were made in normal production.....they were one-ofs. Maybe your friend has something like that. |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 21 October 2001 09:58 AM
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If they were made BOTH ways, I suppose as per request, how is it that we call one way "normal production"? |
Rodney Shuffler
Member From: Montgomery, Texas USA (Home of the Bears)
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posted 21 October 2001 10:09 AM
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You can order a Ford truck with a Cummins diesel; but that's not how they are normally produced...it's a special order. Normally a Ford is sent out with a Power Stroke diesel. That's how I figure something is "normal production". It's how you will see something the majority of the time....just like MCI Waco guitars with wood necks instead of metal necks. I admit to a vast lack of knowledge concerning these axes (and many others), but seeing one or two of something doesn't mean it's a normal production model. My thoughts and opinions only. |
Jody Sanders
Member From: Magnolia,Texas
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posted 21 October 2001 02:28 PM
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Bobbe, I will Email you a little EMCI story you might want to use. Hang is there, Jody. |
Jimmie Misenheimer
Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.
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posted 21 October 2001 09:13 PM
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O.K. - You guys win!! Ya' beat me. I'll have to admit that it was fun for a couple of days, but the fun has pretty much ran out for me. From now on, everything is just as you-all say that it is. P.O.ed, no - disappointed, yeah somewhat. Fear not forum friends (did I say that??), my disappoint is in me, not you. I'm the idiot that had to go to Sears and spend about 1,000 smackers on a new comp-u-tator to try to "take part" in this crap. I wish I had THAT deal back, but I guess that we all have "our cross to bear - or is it bare?? Sorry, not much ed-gee-cation here you see. Before I go, remember that I used words like "mis-information", not "lie". Now I'll tell you what... When a person has asked a question, I can't help but think that he / she should be given proper acurate information, not the first or second thing that comes to mind, or what somebody said, or what somebody told them, or what someone thinks. Now it's comming to mind that some may not believe this, but that type of information may not always be right. I still have a sore leg from slapping it with laughter - maybe I'd better not go there - no sense in makin' everybody mad at me on my last day!! I do still remember a post that suggested that those intricate / hot licks were John Hughey, Weldon, or Pete Drake. Well hell yes - they all sound just alike, don't they. Now this is cool, execpt that all of the above answers , as I remember were given as the absolute fact. Now somebody was wrong, and somebody was WAY THE HELL OFF. The only thing is that, all of the answers were given as "the fact - period - end of story". The only thing that I see that is missing from this forum, (other that a bunch of names that were very well known that that ain't here no mo') are the words "I THINK,or I BELIEVE,or IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. Well, I'll go now. I'm sure that I've bothered you good people long enough. Hey -- anybody want to buy a computer?? How "bout an M.C.I.Guitar?? Cain't tell ya' much 'bout though, 'cause I don't think it exists!!! Wait !! On second thought I think I'll just keep this new computer. All them -there guys that left this outfit, (I just can't imagine why), maybe they're all someplace else -- they're who I'm lookin' for! Oh by the way, that last Explanation / example that I was given -- God man, I'd never ever thought of thaaaaaaaaaaat... Goodbye Misenheimer 32 Degrees / A Shriner |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 21 October 2001 09:23 PM
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Jimmie, I'm sorry that you're so upset. I only related what little I know from the one year or so that I worked at the Arlington MCI/EMCI shop part time.Maybe your confusion lies in the fact that MCI's were built in Waco and later built in Arlington. From what I've seen of both there are quite a few differences. The Arlington MCI's and EMCI's are of course quite similar to each other as they were built by the same people, only the company name was changed. |
Jim Cohen
Member From: Philadelphia, PA
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posted 21 October 2001 09:42 PM
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All I see is a bunch of guys trying to be helpful, sharing what their own experience has been and what they believe to be the case. Personally, I assume that every post includes the implied words, "I believe" or "I think". They don't have to write that into every sentence. Nobody knows everything and anyone can be wrong about something. But as far as I can tell all the opinions expressed above were offered in good faith, and that's all that matters "as far as I'm concerned".[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 21 October 2001 at 09:43 PM.] |
Steve Stallings
Member From: Bremond, Tx, pop 876, Home of the fighting Bremond Tigers
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posted 22 October 2001 09:53 AM
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I have to go with Jim Cohen on this. This thread has some good info and exchange of ideas. I don't understand the "angst" expressed by Jimmie. Jimmie, sometimes it is very easy to read into a post and be offended when in reality, nothing but the best was intended. Possibly, that is the case here... ------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 22 October 2001 12:33 PM
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How many guitars did this company (MCI / EMCI) produce? I've never even seen one! |
Randy Pettit
Member From: Van Alstyne, Texas USA
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posted 22 October 2001 12:38 PM
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Waco vs. Arlington:
I'd have to give the edge to Arlington. The Colts are now 5-2, while the Waco Lions are now 4-3 after suffering a narrow loss to powerful Copperas Cove. Meanwhile, Arlington escaped with a win over crosstown rival Bowie, 28-23. Even though perennial nemesis Arlington Lamar is having a down year, I think Arlington competes in a tougher district, and will go farther in the playoffs. Waco still has remaining district games with Killeen, Georgetown and Temple, and may have trouble making the playoffs. |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 22 October 2001 01:01 PM
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Again I stress that I worked there part time and only for one year. I was doing the final rodding and tuning of the non-standard setups and was able to finish one or two of those per day, plus the lady that was doing the standard setups was also doing the same number. From that I'd guess roughly 20 guitars per month. |
Steve Stallings
Member From: Bremond, Tx, pop 876, Home of the fighting Bremond Tigers
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posted 22 October 2001 01:59 PM
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Two things...
Bobbe, these guitars are ubiquitous in Texas. Secondly...To Randy, all of these teams may have trouble getting by Bryan this year. ------------------
Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
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