-Peter-

Peter's original post follows:

Hi all, I know that this kind of posting is not in the spirit of the forum, but I feel I need to warn my fellow players about my bad experience I had with Gruhn Guitars in Nashville. So b0b, please allow this posting on the forum.
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In October 2001 Gruhn Guitars offered a used Remington S12 in EXF condition.
EXF = Exceptionally Fine. This was not an "AS IS" instrument.

I checked TWICE with them about the condition of the instrument before it
arrived. Here are their replies:
21 Nov 2001: "The instrument is in fine working order and very clean condition!"
21 Dec 2001 : "The pedal steel should be in pretty good shape with very little set up."

In addition their website clearly states:
"We strive to ensure your satisfaction with these Gruhn Guarantees:
Expert inspection and repair -- including setup.
Our staff of six full-time repairmen sees that every
instrument arrives ready to play (except those sold "as is").
We go to great lengths to ensure that all instruments
are properly restored and set up in optimum playing order."

This clearly gives the impression that the instrument has been checked by their expert staff.

When the instrument arrived it was clear that the instrument had been butchered.
Some pedals had not been connected at all. A matchstick was used on the roller
nut to raise a string. The pedals had been modified and the shafts were mounted skew.
The underside of the guitar was extremely dirty and had NEVER been cleaned.
The result is that the changer bridge has to be taken apart because it is all "gunged" up with oil and metal shavings.
In addition some of the pedals will have to be moved back to its original position and the guitar needs to be re-rodded.

I never expected to receive something that has so many problems and is totally unplayable.
This instrument has NEVER BEEN PROPERLY INSPECTED, OR CLEANED, OR REPAIRED.
In fact it should have never left their premises.

Now Gruhn Guitars refuses to take responsibility and all they offer is a refund or reasonable ($250) repair. But NO shipping!
They quoted $1500 to ship it to South Africa. So it will cost me a lot of money to get a $1250 refund.

From their correspondence it became pretty clear that the staff had prior knowledge that this instrument had problems, but

they decided to ship it anyway. They are therefore fully accountable and responsible for repairs INCLUDING shipping.

I hope this experience will warn fellow players and maybe someone will send me a humorous reply.
I desparately need a laugh!

Peter den Hartogh
"There are no PSG repair shops in South Africa"

[This message was edited by b0b on 04 March 2002 at 10:33 AM.]

Make sure to keep all of your records if you try to contest the charge!

Feelin for ya! Hate to get burned!!! Been there Before!!!!!

Jim, best of luck and I mean what I said , and always will.

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STEELDAYS 2002
my web-site
my bands CODand TSC

quote:

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They quoted $1500 to ship it to South Africa. So it will cost me a lot of money to get a $1250 refund.

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I hate to make your "taking it from the rear" story a cautionary tale for future buyers abroad, but this extra step might not be a bad idea!

I am glad to see that this post also solved some other peoples problems.
Thats the spirit!
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Jim, I am trying to persuade Mr Gruhn that "coming clean" is cheaper than a lenghty and costly legal battle over a long distance. (I have relatives in the legal business, so MY costs will be minimal).
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Matt and Johan, unfortunately I paid by a banktransfer, not by credit card.
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Paul, I HAVE the option to return it with a refund, but I loose 2 times shipping costs. Once TO South Africa, once BACK to Nashville.
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Joahn, I offered Mr Gruhn the option of a repairman flying to South Africa, but he has rejected it.
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Matt, your suggestion of having it checked beforehand by a real expert is excellent, thank you. Unfortunately I have been mislead by Gruhn promises on his website, claiming that his experts inspect and repair the instruments. Stupid me...I fell for it.
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Bobbe, long distance calls are quite expensive from here. Could we use email?
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Michael, your suggestion is probably the only option.
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Peter den Hartogh

[This message was edited by Peter on 09 January 2002 at 12:08 AM.]

I recommended the Remington to you and I am very sorry to hear that the deal went so badly. Apart from legal action, I think you have two alternatives: return it or restore it.

As Steve Takacs said, there must be carriers that ship cheaper than 1500 $ (that price is outrageous), but it will take a lot of phone calls to locate them.

Michael and others are right too: restoring a steel is not rocket science. We all had to learn to make adjustments and repairs when there are no service shops nearby. The problem lies not in the complicated mechanism (that can be figured out), but in the spare parts you might need. I suggest you make a list of what you need and try to find out which of those parts you could get locally at hardware stores (keeping in mind that the original parts are gauged in inches, not millimeters). The plastic bushings and washers could pose a problem, especially if you have hexagon cross shafts. The parts you canŽt get or canŽt duplicate yourself, you will get from Remington Steel. Talk to Herb Remington, IŽm positive heŽll do anything he can to help you.

If you have any questions about the guitar, please feel free to email me. While IŽm no expert by any means, IŽll do my best to help you.

Best regards, Rainer

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Remington D 10 8/8, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8/8, Session 400 LTD

Peter, if I were you I'd return it. You'll lose the shipping costs, but I feel that if you keep it then George Gruhn will be "getting away with" it, which to me it seems like they were trying to pull a fast one on you. Then take your money to Bobbe or any other steel dealer.

If I owned a guitar shop, and I was in Nashville, and I got a steel in and didn't know anything about it, I'd just get on the phone and call one of the many people there that know their stuff and ask how much they'd charge to set it up. If it's not too bad then I'd have them do it and tack it on to the price. Now my professional reputation is still intact. I would not ever lie or misrepresent my products or services.

However, I have noticed that this modus operandi being discussed here is becoming commonplace among all segments of society, not just music dealers or musicians (not all, just some). Car repair, lawyers, doctors ... you name it. If they don't know what they're doing they either don't know it or won't admit it and will just take the job and your money and go through with and deliver a poor performance. It seems as if it's a rare occasion when they'll refer you to someone who really can help you out.

I recently needed some car repair. The shop I took it to diagnosed it and didn't charge me, then referred me to another shop who did a good job. I'd go back to both of these places, and I'd also refer a friend to them.

Paul, you are so right.
Mr Gruhn has spent 35 years of his life to build a good reputation.
But instead of nurturing this reputation he is allowing his reputation to deteriorate fast. It will take about 3 to 5 years to destroy his hard work by his "funky" money-attitude. If he is in his mid-fifties, what is he going to do the next forty years?

quote:

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If he is in his mid-fifties, what is he going to do the next forty years?

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I was going to stay completely out of this thread, but I gotta tell you that guitar looks just about exactly like a faked "Emmons" that I had to work on about 2 years ago. I can't see the detail well enough on the photo to determine whether your guitar has square or round steel or hex aluminum cross-shafts. Is there perhaps an additional small steel plate bolted into the bottom of the changer? Is there anything different or unusual about how the pedal bar is mounted? A fellow forumite was able to I.D. the guitar for me but was very discreet about the matter because of some questionable specifics involving the guitar's builder. Perhaps this forumite will E-mail you after seeing the photo. Hope this turns out to be helpful for you as you work through this matter.

Tim R.

[This message was edited by Tim Rowley on 06 January 2002 at 01:04 AM.]

I cannot seem to find an additional small steelplate at the bottom of the changer.

This guitar has 3 Remington decals, 1 on the front, one on the back where your belt-buckle would touch the guitar when playing, and one on the pedal bar.

Someone added an 8th pedal and probably shifted the other 7 pedals towards the end with the tuning keys. On the picture you can count the pedal stops from pedal 1 and see that the stop on 8 is not original. they also shifted the RKL yo make way for pedal 8.
There is also a middle kneelever that I presume could be a vertical lever, however it flops around from left to right not holding any position.
You can also see that RKL has no stop.
The changer has to be taken out and "De-Gunged".

The front legs are not adjustable, just fixed short pipes fixed inside the pedal bar, being gripped by the the knurled front leg parts.

I hope this gives enough info.

Peter den Hartogh