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Author
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Topic: Keyless Technology
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Steven Knapper
Member From: Temecula Ca USA
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posted 15 June 2002 04:46 AM
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Amen to that!![This message was edited by Steven Knapper on 15 June 2002 at 04:58 AM.] |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 16 June 2002 03:12 PM
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I bought a keyless unit from Joe Kline in 1976 and put it on my "The Steel" (which had black legs and rods when I first built it in 1972). I then got a Kline in 1978 and have used it since. I have played a number of Anapegs as well, and find them outstanding.
I can't imagine why anyone would NOT want to have a keyless. The strings are easier to change when they break, and the size makes the guitar much lighter.
Sorry to see that the new MSA has innovated in the material side of things, but kept "looking like a steel"
sigh...JW |
Don McClellan
Member From: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
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posted 17 June 2002 05:53 PM
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There are also other advantages with keyless guitars. They are about 10 inches shorter in length (so they fit into smaller spaces on small stages), 15(?) pounds lighter and much better looking. I own 2 U12 Klines. |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 07 January 2005 07:22 PM
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Keyless is a blessing. Thanks, Gene Fields, for your dial (wrenchless) tuning. Al |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 08 January 2005 07:17 AM
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The keyless/gearless on my new SIERRA does not have the old "pretensioning" issue when changing strings = zip zip!The Changer and tuner are integrated into one unit. And a bunch more "modernizations" in mechanism and signal path. See it at the Mesa AZ show next week. |
Buddy Emmons
Member From: Hermitage, TN USA
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posted 08 January 2005 09:54 AM
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Carl,
In reference to your earlier post, my only experience with the 25” scale other than the Sierra was when Shot Jackson and I were building Sho~Buds. It was during the time the high G# was added to the tuning that we encountered the string breakage problem and had to reduce the scale 24 ½ inches. To be different than Sho~Bud and possibly reduce string breakage even more, I had fifty 24 ¼” Emmons atom fret boards made in Nashville and gave them to Ron to use on the first guitars. By that time, the Sho~Bud fret board had proven that the longer scale didn’t work so there was no need to experiment with the Emmons guitar. Ron had built a Sho~Bud clone prior to my meeting him and may have been referring to that guitar, but the Emmons guitar started at 24 ¼” and stayed there. Billy… Regarding the topic, I prefer the keyless sound. Jeff Newman had a great sounding Kline keyless S-12 he used during seminars he and I held. We had just finished playing a phrase for the class and while they were absorbing it, Jeff smiled and leaned over and said, “Why does my guitar sound better than yours?” His Kline did have a cleaner sound but I wasn’t about to admit it so I replied, “Because you have a tin ear.” His face flushed and all he could do was force a chuckle. It was one of the few times I ever saw Jeff at a loss for words.
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Scott Appleton
Member From: Half Moon Bay, California, USA
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posted 09 January 2005 12:37 PM
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I think the keyless changer is suspect. The ones I have had a chance to work with would not keep
in tune more than about 5 minuts. Now it seems the
GFI keyless is a good one and B0b loves his sierra.
I have not tried those steel mfg keyless changers.
Anyone els have trouble getting thier keyless to tune up and stay tuned?------------------
Mullen S12 Almost Mooney
71 Tele, Regal 45
Sho Bud S10 NP
Line 6 Flextone 3 + JBL D130, Nash 112 |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 09 January 2005 02:24 PM
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What brands of keyless did you find suspect? |
steve takacs
Member From: beijing, china
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posted 09 January 2005 08:34 PM
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Scott, the Kline keyless most definitely stays in tune for many moons.... steve |
Ernie Pollock
Member From: Mt Savage, Md USA
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posted 10 January 2005 07:22 AM
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I also have played the Klines & found them to be a great guitar, they keyless that I am now playing is kind of a 'home made' S-12 that a friend of mine built, needless to say he was a great machinist, & he made this one a keyless around 20 or so years ago, still plays & stays in tune well, and string breakage is the best that I have ever owned. Keyless works real good!! Have you ever noticed you don't see many dinosours around these days? I think they had a problem with 'change'. Hum?? Ernie  ------------------
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Ernie Pollock
Member From: Mt Savage, Md USA
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posted 10 January 2005 07:24 AM
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I also have played the Klines & found them to be a great guitar, they keyless that I am now playing is kind of a 'home made' S-12 that a friend of mine built, needless to say he was a great machinist, & he made this one a keyless around 20 or so years ago, still plays & stays in tune well, and string breakage is the best that I have ever owned. Keyless works real good!! Have you ever noticed you don't see many dinosours around these days? I think they had a problem with 'change'. Hum?? Ernie ------------------
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Ernie Pollock
Member From: Mt Savage, Md USA
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posted 10 January 2005 07:25 AM
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I also have played the Klines & found them to be a great guitar, they keyless that I am now playing is kind of a 'home made' S-12 that a friend of mine built, needless to say he was a great machinist, & he made this one a keyless around 20 or so years ago, still plays & stays in tune well, and string breakage is the best that I have ever owned. Keyless works real good!! Have you ever noticed you don't see many dinosours around these days? I think they had a problem with 'change'. Hum?? Ernie ------------------
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Bill Stafford
Member From: Gulfport,Ms. USA
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posted 10 January 2005 07:40 AM
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I am glad to see the improvements in the "keyless" technology. I am fairly familiar with all the different models on the market and find them all very well suitable for the job. With the EXCEL model, I have been able to increase the string length (scale) to 25 1/2"-getting close to those old great sounding pedalless steels with the 26" scale.
My EXCEL, in effect, has the strings mounted on the base plate of the neck thereby eliminating string length yet again-even with the longer scale. The mounting system here is on a sliding mechanism that moves vertically against this base. Works great and after two years and a few months, I finally broke the first string.(Not my first string, but the 018 ga B string). Just finally wore out. This changer does not pull the string down on the rotating axle as most other changers. This is a horizontal pull and there is no wear or tension on the radius as on the rotating type changers.
This tuner allows me to play for days and weeks and longer without having to continually tune the strings.
But it all boils down to a personal preference. I am anxious to see and play the new design of Ed Packard's- incorporating both the tuning adjustments and the changer adjustments in one unit. Seems the way to go.
Bill Stafford |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 10 January 2005 08:13 AM
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I don't know a lot about the difference between keyed or keyless. All I know is that a keyless guitar reminds me of a chicken with its head chopped off. 
Erv |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 10 January 2005 08:21 AM
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That's pretty deep, Erv...cosmic, almost! |
Scott Appleton
Member From: Half Moon Bay, California, USA
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posted 10 January 2005 08:52 AM
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The keyless I tried for a week was one with screws on the end which you turned with an allen wrench. that
had a locking saddle on its end. The problem was the threads had play in them and you could not get
the string to set in exactly the cent position without
rocking back and forth a few times. Then when you changed the tension that ajustment would just move
a few cents and throw you out again. I wont mention
who's changer because it may have just been my unit that was bad. ------------------
Mullen S12 Almost Mooney
71 Tele, Regal 45
Sho Bud S10 NP
Line 6 Flextone 3 + JBL D130, Nash 112 |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 10 January 2005 09:20 AM
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"The problem was the threads had play in them and you could not get the string to set in exactly the cent position without
rocking back and forth a few times."Scott,
I would agree that that would be an issue that I would not be willing to live with, and I too would have found that suspect. My Keyless expierience as almost entirely with Sierra, and their Keyless tuners make micro-adjustability and ultra fine tuning tweaks a snap. When fine tuning my keyed steels, I use a stringwinder to get a better hand-to-tuner leverage ratio.
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Dave Zirbel
Member From: Sebastopol, CA USA
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posted 10 January 2005 09:21 AM
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I haven't broke a string or had to tune my keyless Kline for about two months! It's an incredibly stable and precise guitar. I can play a 3-4 set gig with having to tune the open strings or the endplate tuners all night, pull it out of the case the next day and play it without having to make any adjustments.------------------
Dave Zirbel-
ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, S-12U Kline 7 x6, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb
The Mother Truckers
The Cowlicks
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Doug Earnest
Member From: Branson, MO USA
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posted 10 January 2005 05:53 PM
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I'm anxious to see how Sierra made the changer finger/tuner piece. I have been trying to draw one for quite some time. Had some good ideas, but seemed they would be hard to make for a one-off instrument. This seems the obvious way to go, in my opinion.------------------
Doug Earnest
The only Zum Keyless U12, Fender Cyber Twin |
ed packard
Member From: Show Low AZ
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posted 10 January 2005 07:31 PM
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Doug, Sierra made it according to the photo and print of the one that I made for my Session series, ..same with the string terminator. Photos if you want. Just Email and ask. |
Steve Alcott
Member From: New York, New York, USA
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posted 10 January 2005 08:43 PM
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I've played a Williams keyless for a few years and would buy another one without a second thought. When I have trouble keeping the .0115 3rd string in tune,I know it's time to change it. The only time I've broken a string at an inopportune time was when I didn't take the hint. I've recommended the Williams to a couple of players in the NYC area;I'm pretty sure they would agree with me that Bill Rudolph builds a fine instrument. I've found Bill's keyless tuner design to be accurate,stable,and easy to use. String changing is a snap;the guitar comes with an all-in-one wrench that fits the tuners on both ends as well as the string posts. My personal best is under 30 seconds in bad light.
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Williams keyless S-10,NV 400,Marrs cab[This message was edited by Steve Alcott on 10 January 2005 at 08:53 PM.]
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Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 11 January 2005 04:33 PM
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Since this contentious thread has been resurrected,let me hip those of you who haven't seen it,to the new Excel keyless tuning head. It's something like the Sierra and the GFI in that you can tune it without a wrench. http://www.fuzzypsg.com/
Of course having to tune with a wrench doesn't mean much when you never have to tune the guitar. The only keyless head I didn't like and I've tried them all - was the Bela device.The one I saw used direct,ungeared steel pegs threaded into soft aluminum and was like tuning an autoharp or a piano string and seemed mechanicially unstable. I play a Keyless U-12 Excel w/8+9 and apart from all the positive aspects of any keyless guitar,it stays in tune for months,never,ever breaks any strings(I've had a 3rd string on there for around 25 gigs and it's starting to go dead)And w/a 17.5 TT pickup,has a distinctive fat singing tone that's to die for and at 38 pounds,packs up into what looks like a tenor sax case. I care not what course others may take - give me keyless or give me death! -MJ- |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 11 January 2005 06:02 PM
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I'll pass on the death.... I have one of each and I prefer looking at the keyheads, from a "textural" perspective. The keyless (Kline on a Super Pro) was a major improvement, though. |
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