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  MSA Millenium -- a review... (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   MSA Millenium -- a review...
Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 15 December 2002 06:24 PM     profile     
For those people who have asked me for my opinion of the new D10 Millenium...read on.

Looks...

No doubt about it, the guitar is drop-dead gorgeous! Sporting more chrome than a '58 Buick, it literally "sparkles" like city lights on a clear night. (Their website photos really don't do it justice.) Even with the black C/F legs, it is still quite impressive.

Everybody's been wondering about the size & weight issue...

Well, packed up, it's a full 20 pounds lighter than a similarly-equipped MSA Classic, and almost 10 pounds lighter than a similarly-equipped Emmons P/P. It's also very compact...3" shorter, lengthwise, than the MSA Classic, and a full inch shorter than the Emmons P/P. Depth (front to back) is almost an inch less than the old Classic, and just slightly smaller (1/4") than the P/P. The Millenium is probably the smallest and lightest keyed guitar you can buy. Total carrying weight in the impressive Dell (flight-style) custom case is about 56 pounds. Lighter than most anything out there...but still substantial. It certainly won't "blow away" on a windy day.

The sound...

Nothing like the old MSA's! No...not even close. The sound is very reminiscent of the '60s vintage P/P's...slightly metallic, and with screaming "bell-like" highs. With the stock E66 pickup, think "Black Album" and you're pretty close...awfully close, as a matter of fact. The sustain and clarity up in "Hughey land" (above the 15th fret) are remarkable. Dance around at the 24th fret? No problem...the sound is there!

Mechanics, fit, and finish...

Mechanics are quite good (with only a couple minor adjustment problems that I took care of myself), and the fit and finish are excellent. Though I don't think they mention it on their website, the reason for the cabinet-mounted pedal height adjusters becomes obvious fast...the pedal rods are all the same length! No more fumbling with "which rod goes where"? The top rod-socket attachment takes some getting used to, though, and it will be a while before I break my 3-minute "from case-to-playing time" barrier of my old MSA. The pedal-board to leg snap-connectors are a joy. Snap-snap, and it's on. The knee levers are the most comfortable (contoured) design I've come across. Verticals have a nice wide paddle-type surface, too.

How does it play?

Very nice. Tuning is uncommonly stable...here's the proof. I tuned it up the Thursday before a Saturday/Sunday steel jam. I took it apart, cased it up, and drove 20 miles to the Jam. I set it up there, and just started playing. No retuning, no "touch-up", no nothing! It was "in". I did the same thing the following day, and never touched the keys or the tuners. So, if you want one that will really "stay in tune", this might well be your next guitar. It's not quite as quiet, mechanically, as I had anticipated. No doubt some of this is due to the low-mass body (which amplifies all those mechanical sounds just like it does all those musical ones), and some is due to the fact that I haven't really "fine-tuned" all the mechanics yet. (This process may take me several months.) Also, it's a very new guitar design, and improvements are still being made...they will get better in time, as all guitars do. From my own standpoint, a little noise is a small price to pay for the tuning stability and weight/size advantages. I haven't actually measured the hysteresis and cabinet drop, yet. Suffice it to say that they are "inaudible" to me.

Finally...is it really worth it?

Well, you'll have to decide that for yourself. I was in the market for a new steel, and have played the same MSA for 29 years. The old one never let me down, and I figured there was no good reason (other than saving money) for me to buy anything else. I wanted the best there is...period. Wait time was just over 5 months for mine, and the list price is the price. There'll probably be no "deals", no "dickering" with the price, as there is on other steels. If you want it...you gotta have the cash. My suggestion would be to save your coins and "load it up" if you're going to get one. Adding a crossrod for another pedal could be a major undertaking, as the entire undercarriage must be removed to do so. Also, the splits are tuneable at the end plate, so the end plates are modified for these splits. Be safe and just "split" something on both necks. That way, you'll always have the capability right at hand. Choose the E66 pickups if you like the classic "Emmons sound", or the BL-710 if you want something just a little fuller. Also, be advised that this thing will never sound like the old MSA's, regardless of what pickup you use. Should you have any other questions about the guitar, or my deal, feel free to e-mail me. All in all, I think they've got a "winner" with this new guitar, and others (much more capable than me) are beginning to think so, too.

Lastly, my guitar was "paid in full" before it was shipped! Though my wait-time was a couple months longer than had been projected, I never had any doubt I'd get my guitar.

That oughta set some minds at ease.

Kyle Bennett
Member

From: Dallas, TX USA

posted 15 December 2002 07:15 PM     profile     
Donny,

I thought I would clarify your comment on additional crossrods. If you decide to add an additional crossrod to your Millennium, we offer a telescoping crossrod kit that you can install in a matter of minutes with no need for removing the undercarriage. The carriage is already predrilled and bushed on all Millenniums for this kit.
Thanks for the good report on your new D10. It was a pleasure to work with you.

Kyle

PAUL WARNIK
Member

From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA

posted 16 December 2002 06:31 AM     profile     
Donny H-you are absolutely right that the new MSA Millenium sounds NOTHING like the older models-I was loaned a new Millenium to play for over a week-and I agree with you that with the E-66 pickups the sound is like the old P/P with great tone clarity in the upper register
Frank Estes
Member

From: Huntsville, AL

posted 16 December 2002 07:29 AM     profile     
quote:
With the stock E66 pickup, think "Black Album" and you're pretty close...awfully close, as a matter of fact.

With all due respect, I highly doubt it...

------------------
Frank Estes - 1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D


Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 16 December 2002 08:18 AM     profile     
.....No doubt about it, the guitar is drop-dead gorgeous! Sporting more chrome than a '58 Buick,....

.....Donny, how about fins too, like a 58 Cadilac?.... Gene

Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 16 December 2002 08:45 AM     profile     
Well Gene, I guess you could add tailfins...if you wanted!

Frank...I'm not unaware of the loyalty of some Emmons owners. As for the subjective opinions of the P/P sound, well...let's just say that I own an Emmons P/P, too. As I have said before, I've heard Zums and Mullens that sound remarkably similar to the "old P/P Emmons sound", as well. To me, a good sound is a good sound, period. I revere the "sound" of a good guitar...any guitar. Names don't impress me.

Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 16 December 2002 09:36 AM     profile     
..Good answer Donny...I dig... .) www.genejones.com
Bobby Lee
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, North California, USA

posted 16 December 2002 09:44 AM     profile     
The biggest part of that "black album" sound came from Buddy's hands, IMHO.
Bob Hoffnar
Member

From: Brooklyn, NY

posted 16 December 2002 10:01 AM     profile     
Donny,
Great news about the MSA ! I'm passing through your town for the holidays. I would love to check it out if you have time.

Bob

Rick Schmidt
Member

From: Carlsbad, CA. USA

posted 16 December 2002 12:43 PM     profile     
Thanks Donny! I really appreciate reading your take on the Milleniun. Youve always had had me nodding my head in aggrement on many other issues here on the forum, so your
review is good as gold for me.

Now sing after me: (in a yiddish accent)

"If I were a RICH man...dya di da di dya di... etc."

Enjoy...you deserve it! Merry Christmas!

VERNON PRIDDY
Member

From: ELIZABETHTOWN; KY. USA

posted 16 December 2002 02:39 PM     profile     
Where Is All The Chrome? Black Legs .Pedal Bord. Don't See Much Chrome. SONNY.

------------------
SONNYPRIDDY

Gary Lee Gimble
Member

From: Gaithersburg, Maryland

posted 16 December 2002 03:06 PM     profile     
I would like to take this opportunity to endorse Donny's' critique of the new MSA. Why you axed? Well, let me tell you. This man plays and picks steel well above the average, and trust his opinion on other topics he feels a need to interject. Whom am I you axed? Well (again), my ear supersedes my playing expertise. Oh well! Donny, I'm jealous of you, and Curry whats his name cause he picks damn good too. Bottom line is, a couple of shots of MaCallan red label cask strength will allow me to sleep in the fetal position all night. Enjoy your new MSA!
Gary Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Jeff A. Smith
Member

From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.

posted 16 December 2002 03:08 PM     profile     
Donny, Thanks for taking the time to do an excellent and comprehensive review. I appreciate hearing about the new MSA from someone else who plays and has positive feelings about the old ones.
Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 16 December 2002 04:38 PM     profile     
quote:
Where Is All The Chrome? Black Legs,Pedal Board. Don't See Much Chrome.

Well Vernon, I have a set of the chrome legs on the way...they weren't ready to be delivered when I got the guitar, though. As for the chrome, well...the necks (sides, frets, pickup doors, and pickup surrounds) are chromed, the keyheads are chromed, the keys are chromed, the changer pillow and back-blocks are chromed, and the end-plates are chromed.

Also, they do offer a "polished" (aluminum?)pedalboard, if you really want one (which I did not).

Gary Lee, thank you for the compliment. I'm decent (read..."very commercial") on E9th, but don't have anywhere near your knowledge or skills on C6th. And Curry, well...he's "monster class" on both necks, in my book! Everybody else (Paul, Gene, Rick, Jeff, et al), thanks for the "flowers".

Bobby...you're right about Buddy, he does have that "Emmons' sound" on just about anything!

Frank...'ya gotta hear it to appreciate it.

Bob H., I'll e-mail you my phone number, and you can call when you get here. My schedule's a little "iffy" right now, but I'll sure try to accomodate you if I'm around. (Maybe you can show me some of those "advanced" chords I'm always missing?)

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 05:47 PM     profile     
Sounds like a push-pull huh? Here we go again, using the Emmons as standard "by which to measure all others".
How many more times will Emmons be mentioned in this post? This is supposed to be a MSA post, why are you guys giving Emmons so much credit here? Is Emmons really the standard of measurement?
Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 16 December 2002 05:57 PM     profile     
Hey Bobbe
Where you been? Missed you over here. Thanks
for helping me out,Smiley called and told me.

Let me know where you are.Things are too quiet since your'e gone.

Thanks again for your generosity. I really
appreciate it.

Merry Christmas to you and Mrs.

Keep in touch and dont be a stranger,unless
your'e a "Stranger in Paradise" If so let me
in.

Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 16 December 2002 06:01 PM     profile     
They judge the rest by the best "EMMONS"
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 06:20 PM     profile     
Jody, how could I charge you for anything?
Stephen Gregory
Member

From:

posted 16 December 2002 06:37 PM     profile     
Donny, Interesting post. It sounds that besides a "Classic" tone, the new Millennium has many other positive attributes not found on any of the other current guitars. I think Maurice and his crew are really on to something here, vintage tones, depending on the selection of pickup, light weight, tuning stability (imagine that) and many other advantages you listed. Thanks for the update!
Rex Thomas
Member

From: Thompson's Station, TN

posted 16 December 2002 06:49 PM     profile     
...what Mr. Gregory said.
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 07:09 PM     profile     
OR, you could always buy a push-pull to "get that classictone ",and buy a nice car with what's left over. Then in five years when the push pull is worth $6000.00, sell it and buy four five year old MSAs. Seems logical to me. What do you think?
I'm just doing some math here,.
I'd like to say "what Rex said", but Rex never ever says anything! He always says, "what someone else says".

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 16 December 2002 at 07:14 PM.]

Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 16 December 2002 07:31 PM     profile     
Bobbe...you devil, you!

Actually, in all honesty, I know that there's a lot of players that use the Emmons as a benchmark...that's why I brought it up. As long as a player is happy with what he's playin', and he sounds good, I don't care what brand he's (or she's) playing. I also realize that, along with logic and finance, there's a lot of emotion involved when buying a guitar, too.

Personally, I feel that "how you play" is more important than "what you play", but that may put me in the minority around here...wouldn't be the first time!

Anyhow, Merry Christmas! And thanks for being so friendly when I was down in Nashville this year.

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 07:33 PM     profile     
Please don't misunderstand me or my post guys, I feel sure that this guitar is the greatest guitar in the world for some players, as are other brands of steels for other people. I'm sure this is the perfect guitar for Rex and Donny and and anyone that wants one. Ford or Chevy? I have my prefences, and some of my good friends have opposing prefrences. They are still my friends, and I like them just as much, and I hope they feel the same about me.
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 07:40 PM     profile     
Donny, you are a very easy guy to be nice to, I have always loved ALL your posts and I do this thread also. I have much respect for you and your wonderful wife, and I agree with you about buying steel guitars being emotional, that was a very intelligent thing to say , as is most of what you say in my opinion. Yes, I feel this is the perfect guitar for you and I believe I even told you this when you visited me in Nashville. I know you'll love it and I bet you'll keep it for 29 years.(like the last one.)
Your friend and antagonist in fun,
Bobbe
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 07:45 PM     profile     
By the way, what ever happend to the great "Pat Burns"??? I'm sure he'd have a great comment with which to join in. Anyone know?
How 'bout a free set of E9th strings for the guy that finds him! I'll pay shipping!
Bobbe

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 16 December 2002 at 07:47 PM.]

Jeff Peterson
Member

From: Nashville, TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 07:51 PM     profile     
OK.

[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 17 December 2002 at 04:34 AM.]

Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 16 December 2002 08:01 PM     profile     
Bobbe
Pat Burns lives about 5 miles from me.He very
seldom if any,looks at the Forum any more.
He spends much of his free time practicing and enjoying his family.His job keeps him busy as well.

Perhaps he is writing some new material
I'll give him a holler for ya.

He may be on to something that I overlooked.
Maybe his life is like an "Orchard" and you remember what Carl Smith sang about "Orchids"

These guys dont go back that far. I'll tell him you were asking for him.

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 08:10 PM     profile     
OK for you Jeff , now you've done it! There goes your steel guitar endorsment from this company! I think they have your endorsment over in the corner, right beside mine! Gathering dust!
Remember, as a car salesman told me once,"there is a butt for every seat", just like , there is a buyer for every guitar, somewhere.
Now Jeff, what were you saying about Lloyd and Tommy's video? (just kidding).
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 08:12 PM     profile     
Jody, tell Pat WE MISS HIM!! He was the funniest guy on the forum, with intelligence.
(where do I send your strings?)
Rex Thomas
Member

From: Thompson's Station, TN

posted 16 December 2002 08:23 PM     profile     
And at this point of the Millennium post we hear the beginning of the "William Tell Overture". (and NO, I don't mean "The Lone Ranger" for crying out loud! I'm speaking of the tranquil part...)

[This message was edited by Rex Thomas on 16 December 2002 at 10:31 PM.]

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 08:36 PM     profile     
Is this guitar still in hiding? Seems like the same few guys keep hawking, over and over. I'd still love to see an unbiased evaluation by someone that can give one and not someone with something to gain by hyping it. I think Donny has come as close as anyone has so far, but all he has ever owned is MSA, so , I'm still waiting for a credible source, Johnny Cox? I don't think so if he's going to be a dealer like he says. (How much better is it than a Zum Johnny?) I'm not saying that these folks aren't trying to be truthful, I'm just stateing that it's easy to have your views colored if you have a monitary reason to do so. Naturally the guy selling them is going to say how great they are. How about a true unbiased evaluation , comparison, by a group of pros that have nothing to gain by saying anything, one way or the other? I feel we all would like this, we just haven't seen it yet. Who knows, It might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I want to either hear the guitar myself or have a true opinion of it's actual performance. Can anyone find fault with a mind that just wants facts?

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 16 December 2002 at 08:47 PM.]

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 December 2002 at 08:25 AM.]

Reggie Duncan
Member

From: Mississippi

posted 16 December 2002 08:39 PM     profile     
Thanks Donny!
Rex Thomas
Member

From: Thompson's Station, TN

posted 16 December 2002 08:53 PM     profile     
Sorry, Donny. I'm outa here.

[This message was edited by Rex Thomas on 16 December 2002 at 10:32 PM.]

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 16 December 2002 09:01 PM     profile     
Good Rex,(you don't get any free stuff, well possibly a CD,) now let's all get back to the MSA Millinium, looks good to me! I love the fit and finish. Lot better than most!

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 16 December 2002 at 09:21 PM.]

Jody Carver
Member

From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever

posted 17 December 2002 06:16 AM     profile     
:
Al Miller
Member

From: Nashville, TN

posted 17 December 2002 09:23 AM     profile     

Bobbe!!

Donny Played this guitar at my jam a few weeks ago and i must say I was impressed!! the dang thing had tone comparable to ANY guitar i have heard in my measly 26 yrs of playing . i have never cared much for or ever owned an msa (always been an emmons guy) but Mullen turned that around!! but thats another thread. but donny had the best tone and clear sound of anyone at the jam IMHO!! im not knocking anybody who attended they were all great. but be it the room the guitar or just donny's hands i dont know maby the combonation of the three but it was SWEET !! now im not giving up my mullen for one But I encourage other players who are looking at new guitars to take a look at this one as well ..
Just my two cents!!
BOO
Donny Hinson
Member

From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.

posted 17 December 2002 09:52 AM     profile     
Thanks Boo! I just wish I could play all the stuff that you, Curry, and Gary Lee can! Y'all were great. Me?...nervous, first jam, new guitar, out of practice...I walked away wishing I'd done better. Oh well, maybe you'll invite me next time, too!

Anyhow, someone asked "what makes it worth 6 grand?" I'm certainly no expert, but I do know that titanium and molded carbon-fiber composites are very expensive! Just go out and price a good carbon-fiber fishing rod (which is little more than a "stick" of this material), and you'll likely pay a couple hundred dollars. Look at a titanium-head driver (golf club), and you'll pay even more. These are "space-age" materials, and though they're not that new, they're still very expensive. As a matter of fact (aside from the avionics), they're one of the main reasons that the F-117 stealth fighter plane costs 44 million dollars. The fighter's structure is almost completely titanium and carbon fiber.

Sure, 6 grand is a lot of cash, but I don't buy a steel every few years...like some players do. There's a lot of work, and parts, in a steel, and when you make it from exotic materials...well, the price has to go up accordingly. I have a nephew that has an $8000 toolbox...and that didn't include any tools, either! Nothing "exotic", it's just sheet metal and paint, with a couple aluminum extrusions added here and there, and 4 wheels. He got what he wanted...good for him!

If anyone out there thinks this guitar's not worth it, well...that's okay with me. I thought it was, so I bought one...and it's paid for, thank God. I just knew I didn't want to be sitting around somewhere in 5 or 10 years saying "Gee, I should'a bought one!"

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 17 December 2002 at 10:10 AM.]

Johnny Cox
Member

From: The great state of Texas

posted 17 December 2002 01:00 PM     profile     
Mr. Seymour, I am sorry that you are questioning my credibility as a player. But I think most people would recognize my credibility without having to question it. As far as your statement that I am going to be an MSA dealer, this is untrue, as there are no MSA dealers. I am a customer service representative, and with your many years of experience in the steel guitar retail business, I would think you would know the difference between a dealer and a customer service representative. As far as my opinion of the guitar, I gave my honest opinion. It would be the same if I were involved with the company or not. As far as your question, "Is it better than the Zum?" the truthful answer to that question is as follows: In my opinion, the Zumsteel is and always will be the best traditionally built steel guitar that one can purchase. The MSA Millennium is not, however, a traditionally built steel guitar. It is a state of the art instrument that will truly take steel guitar into the future.
Johnny Cox
Rick Schmidt
Member

From: Carlsbad, CA. USA

posted 17 December 2002 06:26 PM     profile     
One thing for certain is it will go from one airport to another without overweight charges. IMO this one of the major selling points for MSA! If some annointed steel player of the future cant book fly dates because they havnt made it big enough to afford their own jet, how can they spread the good news to the whole world?
Jim Smith
Member

From: Plano, TX, USA

posted 17 December 2002 06:29 PM     profile     
At 56 pounds in the case, a new MSA D-10 is still over the new weight limit of 50 pounds for American Airlines.

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