Steel Guitar Strings
Strings & instruction for lap steel, Hawaiian & pedal steel guitars
http://SteelGuitarShopper.com
Ray Price Shuffles
Classic country shuffle styles for Band-in-a-Box, by BIAB guru Jim Baron.
http://steelguitarmusic.com

This Forum is CLOSED.
Go to bb.steelguitarforum.com to read and post new messages.


  The Steel Guitar Forum
  Pedal Steel
  Chess peices and card suits on fingerboards (Page 1)

Post New Topic  
your profile | join | preferences | help | search


This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Chess peices and card suits on fingerboards
Eugene Cole
Member

From: Washington Grove, MD, USA

posted 31 January 2003 11:25 PM     profile     
Why were chess peices, and playing card suits (hearts, spades, diamonds, and clubs) chosen to be used as fingerboard markers on the more modern steel guitars?

What is the history of these items being used for this purpose?

------------------
Regards
-- Eugene@FJ45.com

Ed Naylor
Member

From: portsmouth.ohio usa

posted 01 February 2003 05:43 AM     profile     
Probably the person who used the idea played cards. Over the years I have replaced hundreds of them with a "Generic" fret board because lots of people were offended by them. Here in the "Bible Belt" many steelers play in churches etc. Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works
Erv Niehaus
Member

From: Litchfield, MN, USA

posted 01 February 2003 08:32 AM     profile     
Ed:
When I played my Sho~Bud, I placed some little pieces of chrome tape over the card symbols. When I traded the guitar off, Al Udeen wound up with it and thought:"What kind of a lunatic would do something like that". Nice to find out that there are other lunatics in the world.
Erv
Joe Henry
Member

From: Ebersberg, Germany

posted 01 February 2003 09:10 AM     profile     
I just donīt understand why people get offended by them. I mean, it doesnīt HURT anybody to look at those things, itīs not like racism or sexism or something like that-Iīve never played cards and never will - itīs just a thing that Iīm not interested in at all. However, I think those card symbols look ultra cool on a ShoBud - to me they just belong there, itīs "synonymous" and I WANT them on my current ShoBud and any I might own in the future.

Regards, Joe H.

Herb Steiner
Member

From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX

posted 01 February 2003 09:35 AM     profile     
The fret markers on Merle Travis' guitar neck, the one Paul Bigsby made for Merle's Martin D28, were little pearl card symbols. Probably that's where Sho-Bud got the idea.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association


Erv Niehaus
Member

From: Litchfield, MN, USA

posted 01 February 2003 10:17 AM     profile     
I guess it's just a dumb "Christian" thing!!!
Uff-Da!
Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 01 February 2003 10:33 AM     profile     
I'm a dumb Christian, and not offended by playing cards. To each his own.

I like the Sho-Bud fingerboards so much that I installed one on my Carter. They just look cool, IMO.

I know many Sho-Bud's have been changed because of belief. There's also some ministers that consider the Steel a "Honky Tonk Instrument" with no place in church.
One thing is for sure, I have no place in their church. Closed minds are not for me.

I'd like to know why MSA selected Chess Pieces. Reese??

If you're against atomic weapons can you still play an Emmons?

Chick Donner
Member

From: North Ridgeville, OH USA

posted 01 February 2003 10:47 AM     profile     
Now, who wants to tell the story of the neck markers on ZB's?
James Quackenbush
Member

From: Pomona, New York, USA

posted 01 February 2003 10:58 AM     profile     
"Make a joyfull noise unto the Lord"

I think pedal steels make a joyfull noise !!

Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 01 February 2003 11:05 AM     profile     
Erv I think I understand where your coming from because I somewhat agree with you. Question. Is it that a true Christian should believe that the Holy Spirit should be the spiritual guide in life's decisions rather that taking a gamble (which are whats cards are all about)? I agree with this, but I still think the card suit looks ultra cool on the fret boards. This is an interesting spiritual decision for a Christian.
Reece Anderson
Member

From: Keller Texas USA

posted 01 February 2003 11:21 AM     profile     
Joey A....Tom Morrell and Danny Shields, who were originally the M & S in MSA, were building a guitar in the very early 1960's called the Morrell Shields Custom. They had selected chess pieces for fret markers before I became involved and the MSA company was formed.

I wanted to continue to use the symbols even on the new MSA Millennium because my feelings have always been, "the chess pieces provide the perception of a dignified and intellectual connotation".

I of course cannot speak for Tom or Danny as to the reasons behind their decision to use them originally!

Thank you for the question......

Erv Niehaus
Member

From: Litchfield, MN, USA

posted 01 February 2003 11:53 AM     profile     
According to the scriptures, we shouldn't do anything to offend a Brother. Some people have a strong conviction against card playing. That's why I covered up the card symbols on my Sho~Bud. I will play a game of cards once in a while, myself, and I like to play cribbage with my daughter. In the bible, some people were eating the meat that was sacrificed. And although there wasn't anything wrong with it, it was offensive to some. It was advised not to do it lest it would cause a Brother to stumble.
I presently have 2 Sho~Buds and this afternoon I'm going to be looking at another one for sale. These all have the card symbols on them but I won't be playing them in church! I take my Emmons there.
Uff-Da!
p.s.: I'm not against atomic weapons, particularly if one is dropped on Sadam Insane's head!

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 01 February 2003 at 11:57 AM.]

John Robel
Member

From: colbert washington

posted 01 February 2003 12:43 PM     profile     
I too am a "dumb christian" (Catholic, the "worst kind" I have heard) and am not offended by any fret markers I can think of offhand. I might buy some naked chicks markers if I could find 'em.
Stephen Gambrell
Member

From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA

posted 01 February 2003 12:46 PM     profile     
Ever heard Tex Ritter's recitation, "Deck of Cards?" I'm a Christian, saved by grace, and I attend a Southern Baptist church. I'm not offended in the least by the hearts, clubs, etc. on the Sho-Bud fingerboards. I don't like the way they look on the front, though, just cause I think that's ugly. By the way, if I win the lottery, I'll pay my ten percent off the top, to my church. It's the least I can do.
I know this isn't the Christian steel Forum(I thank God that there IS one, though), but it's good to see this kind of discussion pop up every once in a while, instead of insults, profanity, out-and-out slander, and the other stuff that slips in under bOb's radar. God bless!
CrowBear Schmitt
Member

From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

posted 01 February 2003 01:47 PM     profile     
i traded in my deck of cards,(after playin poker in the vip lounges in airports w: band members+roadies) for a ShoBud and i've seen the Light ever since !
i respect those that find the Card symbols to be profane.
Chess Pieces and the Atomic symbol are Noble in comparison.(Zum and Mullen are kewl !)
the Cards are probably reminiscent of the Ol'West. Saloons,Gunfights and Songs.
Since i'm a Taoist, i think i'd like a fretboard w: Fire,Water,Air and Earth markers
Bobbeee if you don't have these,
those w: the wild cards will do


------------------
Steel what?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 February 2003 at 02:12 AM.]

Jim Smith
Member

From: Plano, TX, USA

posted 01 February 2003 01:52 PM     profile     
The longhorn markers on Fessenden fretboards are pretty cool. Not bad for a Yankee!

------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 (coming soon)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880

C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 01 February 2003 02:30 PM     profile     
T. Texas Tyler had the original recording of "Deck of Cards" in the late 40's. I used to here it listening to WJJD on Randy Blake's "Supper Time Frolic" every evening in Chicago. The song was a tear jerker type of song. And Tyler did it about as well as anyone I guess.

carl

Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 01 February 2003 04:09 PM     profile     
Lyrics for "Deck of Cards".
Dave Van Allen
Member

From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

posted 01 February 2003 06:54 PM     profile     
re: ZB Custom...
the Greco-Roman Helmets and Shields were probably meant to connote a "touch of classical"

"Pagan" though they may be, I like the look of them...

Billy Easton
Member

From: Casa Grande, Arizona, USA

posted 03 February 2003 07:44 AM     profile     
Carl...
Your mention of Randy Blake and the "Suppertime Frolic" (or was it "Suppertime Jamboree")sure brings back memories when I was pretty small of hearing Joaquin play the theme song....Oklahoma Stomp. Thanks for bringing that back.

------------------
Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association


[This message was edited by Billy Easton on 03 February 2003 at 07:45 AM.]

[This message was edited by Billy Easton on 03 February 2003 at 07:45 AM.]

Chris DeBarge
Member

From: Boston, Mass

posted 03 February 2003 08:22 AM     profile     
All's I know is that people really dig the card symbols when they see them. Kinda like flaming dice, pin-ups etc.
C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 03 February 2003 09:21 AM     profile     
Billy,

Yes, it was called The Suppertime Frolic. It was a local broadcast from WJJD in Chicago during the 40's and 50's. When Randy died, the show did not survive. Randy was one of the nation's first "talk a commercial to death" announcers. For every 2 minute song he played he talked and "pitched" for a solid 20 minutes. And many times longer by the CLOCK. He was considered one of the most successful radio salesman ever. Made a fortune.

But for a listener who loved "hillbilly" music, it had to be the epitome of borrrrrrrrring. So lonnnnnnnnnnng between songs.

Randy was a lover of the "Chuck Wagon Gang". I am talking about the original group. And he played a lot of their songs. I couldn't stand them as a kid. Now I have aquired somewhat of a taste for their style. Randy even recorded with them singing tenor on ocassion.

Not sure we are talking about the same program. Maybe. I barely recall the theme song. It might have been Joaguin Murphy now that my memory is being jogged though.

carl

Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 03 February 2003 09:49 AM     profile     
....(quote)....I guess it's just a dumb "Christian" thing!!!....

There is no "one size fits all" in Christianity. The scriptures are about 10% what you MUST do, and about 10% what you must NOT do...and the remaining 80% called the "Gray" area is where most of the differences between the denominations occur.

I don't find any specific references in the scriptures to chess & card suits on fingerboards, or many of the other controversial things such as whether or not to play musical instruments in worship, so those by default fall into the gray area.

I feel strongly however, that the scriptural admonition for each person to "work out their salvation with fear and trembling" applies directly to the "gray" area.

What one Christian may believe is a sin because of his interpretation of the gray area, may not be a sin for another Christian because his interpretation of the gray is different.

....but regardless of our belief, none of us will ever qualify based on our actions...God's GRACE is the only thing that will "save" any of us....

Gene

BobG
Member

From: Holmdel, NJ

posted 03 February 2003 10:11 AM     profile     
I'm a little lost on this one.. Is it Card playing that is found offensive or gambling?
It is possible to do one without the other.

------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.


Jerry Hayes
Member

From: Virginia Beach, Va.

posted 03 February 2003 12:20 PM     profile     
Blackie Taylor told me a story years ago of a student he had who was going to a higher priced steel. He brought his mother to the store and the boy wanted a ShoBud but his mom said no because of the card symbols on it. I don't seen anything wrong with them and I too think they're cool. By the way:

Why don't Baptists have sex standing up?

Answer: If they got caught, someone might think they were dancing.......

------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 03 February 2003 12:56 PM     profile     
BobG,

It is of course "gambling". It is that and Halloween, Christmas and soo many other things, that were indeed considered a sin when first done. And some for valid reasons.

Fortunately, for cards, Christmas, Halloween, etc. the meaning has LONG since changed drastically from how it got started. And it is the meaning that is important, NOT the physical. But habits and traditions, etc are hard to break.

A sin much greater than gambling or any other sin almost; is making the "law" MORE one's God than God himself. This is sad and has been practiced forever.

Man has often put much more emphasis on "thou shall not", than the meaning of "thou shalt not". In many many instances, it is the "you can't do that" that drives beliefs instead of bringing the love of Jesus into one's heart.

When the latter happens, all else is moot. Because when that happens, a person has fulfilled totally ALL the commandments in their hearts. And THAT is what our Lord and Savior wanted; AND sees in a person.

God bless you all,

carl

Erv Niehaus
Member

From: Litchfield, MN, USA

posted 03 February 2003 01:55 PM     profile     
Response to Jerry Hayes:
Jerry, I take great offense at your crack concerning Baptists. I am a Baptist and I have sex quite often standing up! I think I've even had it once or twice with my wife!
I don't dance though.
Uff-Da!
Stephen Gambrell
Member

From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA

posted 03 February 2003 02:20 PM     profile     
Hey Carl, as relates to your post---We had a sign in front of our(Baptist)church.
"Jesus said-Ye fishers of men-You catch 'em, I'll clean 'em!"
I think that covers it, don't you?
And Erv----AT YOUR AGE??????
Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 03 February 2003 02:30 PM     profile     
LOL, Erv!
Speaking of playing solo, is Solitare considered sinful?

What about cards with Christian symbols ?

b0b
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, California, USA

posted 03 February 2003 03:32 PM     profile     
Can we get back onto the steel guitar aspect of this topic, please?
slick
Member

From: Calhoun Georgia

posted 03 February 2003 04:43 PM     profile     
Was this about steel guitar?

Wayne Broyles

Don McClellan
Member

From: Kihei, Maui, Hawaii

posted 03 February 2003 06:31 PM     profile     
The reason the card symbols were chosen by the Sho-Bud people is because there are 4 different card symbols and a fretboard needs (or can neatly accommodate anyway) 4 different symbols. On Kline guitars the fretboard has the 4 basic math symbols; add, subtract, multiply and divide.
If you take little things like this too seriously, you're gambling with your mental health. You can bet that's a bad idea. Just take the hand you're dealt and do your best. After all, a Sho-Bud could be in the cards for you. Unless, of course, the deck is stacked aginst you. In which case I'd say let the chips fall where they may.
Is strip poker gambling?
When your my age it is!
Carter York
Member

From: Austin, TX [Windsor Park]

posted 04 February 2003 02:23 PM     profile     
Can anyone elaborate on creating a custom fretboard? I can see on my D8 Stringmaster where the 'board' is tacked onto the body. What is that made of, and are there resources for the 'spacing' of the 'frets' and all?
Thanks,
Carter
Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 04 February 2003 02:33 PM     profile     
Carter, A few years ago Carl Dixon provided the following info on fret space calculations.

I saved it in my files and reprint it without permission.

quote:
"Get a cheap calculator. Just make sure it is capable of figuring to 12 points beyond the decimal point whether or not it displays all these digits.

Find the 12th root of the digit two. Divide 24 (24" scale as an example), by that number, continue to divide each answer by that same factor. That will accurately give you the exact distance from the changer each fret is, and you can take it to its practical limits.

Round off all your calculations to 2 or 3 digits beyond the decimal point.


Thanks Carl.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 04 February 2003 at 05:49 PM.]

Fred Jack
Member

From: Bay City Texas

posted 04 February 2003 05:47 PM     profile     
Erv, did you ever try it standing in a hammock??
Erv Niehaus
Member

From: Litchfield, MN, USA

posted 05 February 2003 07:01 AM     profile     
Fred:
ONLY ONCE!!!!!
Buddy Emmons
Member

From: Hermitage, TN USA

posted 05 February 2003 08:46 AM     profile     
I'm responsible for the Sho~Bud fret board and Don McClellen summed it up in his first sentence. I think you can make something out of anything if you choose to do so. There are too many card games played for pure enjoyment to take the offensive side of card symbols seriously. I haven't heard anybody associate my Emmons guitar atom symbols with the bombing of Hiroshima yet, but I'd be safe in saying that they're out there.
Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 05 February 2003 09:03 AM     profile     
Thanks, Buddy. That solves that question.

Now about the atoms, why atoms?

I'll bet it's a modern space age connection.

Buddy Emmons
Member

From: Hermitage, TN USA

posted 05 February 2003 09:29 AM     profile     
Joey,
You are correct. The modern space age connection is the reason I chose the atoms. I wanted a guitar ahead of its time and as it turned out, Ron Lashley delivered my first guitar a month before I expected it, so I was very pleased. (I made that last part up)
Stephen Gambrell
Member

From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA

posted 05 February 2003 01:52 PM     profile     
Man, is this a cool Forum, or what? We got BUDDY EMMONS to settle this one?? MAN, is this a cool place to hang out!!

This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 

All times are Pacific (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Pedal Steel Pages

Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46

Our mailing address is:
The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support the Forum