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Author
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Topic: c6 pedal 4 change to Eb7 9 ?
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John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 02 July 2003 12:26 PM
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I notice folks like Doug Jernigan and Buddy Cage using p4 differently- rather than raising the As to B (4 and 8) they are9 lowered whole step
8, 7 and 6 raised 1/2 which gives an Eb79 on those strings. In my short journey on the C6 neck, I haven't found P4 being used much- has anyone else made this change? It seems other voicings of this chord are available on P5 and P6 as well as P8 w/ 3 lowered 1/2... I am looking forward to adding a few knees (so far I think 3 raised 1/2 and 4 raised and lowered 1/2) and am considering this P4 change...thanks in advance for your input! |
Franklin
Member From:
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posted 02 July 2003 01:04 PM
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John,I have a different change there as well. Before you change, check out Buddy's lessons. He utilizes that pedal change better than anyone else.
Paul |
John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 02 July 2003 03:31 PM
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Hi Paul- I've checked your setups out and they boggle my mind! As a relative newbie to the instrument, I am trying to find a setup that will give me the maximum choice for voicings on the C6 (I am an experienced jazz player on other instruments), yet allow me to access available lesson materials to get a grip on things (no pun intended!).Which of Buddy's lessons use this 4th pedal? I am working through the Basic C6 course just now... Thanks again and add me to your long list of fans; I've had the "Play by Play" album for years, and was thrilled when you showed up with the Dire Straits. |
Jeff Lampert
Member From: queens, new york city
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posted 02 July 2003 03:48 PM
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Hi John, pedal 4 has been around a long time, so it obviously is useful to a number of major players. Paul is right about exploring it carefully before changing it. In case you're interested, I posted a .mp3 celebrating this July 4th in the Steel Players section of the Forum under the topic "C6 .mp3 – A July 4th tribute to our country”. Give it a listen - it employs both pedal 4 and the full tone F->Eb 9th string lower in several spots, to give you an idea of uses. And of course, it would be an honor Paul if you gave it a listen. Take care guys and have a great July 4th.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/004305.html |
John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 02 July 2003 06:01 PM
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Great reharmonizations, Jeff, you are a great musician, and your page has been very helpful as I sort out things on the C6th neck. That Danny Boy version is really amazing!On your copedant listed, your pedal 4 is 5th string up a whole step A to B rather than the usual C 3rd string down to B- but I didn't see the P4 mentioned above. I will be on the road for a week and unable to check the thread but will look forward to it next week. |
Franklin
Member From:
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posted 02 July 2003 06:02 PM
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John,
After reading your last post I say stick with what you have. Bill Evans is my favorite chord guy, He often uses a chord over a 7 bass note. To do this you hit your 8th string with the pedal in question activated along with strings 6, 5, and 3. FIRST 4 BARS OF GENTLE ON MY MIND pLAY FRET 7 AS Whole NOTES
PLAY FRET 3 AS Half NOTES
3____________________3________________
4________________________3_______0____
5__7____7_______7____3___3(P5)___0____
6__7____7_______7________3(P6)___0____
7__7_____________________3_______0____
8_______7(P4)___7____3________________
This is a simple progression and pedal 4 gives you another way of voicing what is normally played in the 3rd string lower position. Jeff,
Very nicely done. We should call you Mr.Substitution from now on. Paul
[This message was edited by Franklin on 02 July 2003 at 06:03 PM.] [This message was edited by Franklin on 02 July 2003 at 06:04 PM.] |
Jeff Lampert
Member From: queens, new york city
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posted 02 July 2003 07:25 PM
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Paul, John, your comments about my solo pieces are very much appreciated. And Bill Evans is a hero of mine.[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 02 July 2003 at 07:49 PM.] |
Jeff Lampert
Member From: queens, new york city
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posted 02 July 2003 07:28 PM
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John, I have an 11-string C6 neck, so the usual 4th string A note is for me a 5th string. My 4th pedal raises the string to a B, so it is the same thing we are discussing. I don't raise the lower A to B, however, but almost all players who have the standard pedal 4 do, and obviously Paul's example requires that standard pull. |
mickd
Member From: london,england
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posted 03 July 2003 11:34 AM
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John
as one (relative) newcomer to another, I wouldn't drop pedal 4 just yet. Its true that you don't see it much in introductory tab, but that may just be because people tend to start off by emphasising the pedals 5 & 6. You also don't see a lot of pedal 8.What I've found since I started trying to work out my own arrangements (for fun, and as a learning exercise) is that both 4 & 8 suddenly start cropping up all over the place. Mick
[This message was edited by mickd on 03 July 2003 at 11:38 AM.]
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Jeff Lampert
Member From: queens, new york city
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posted 03 July 2003 02:48 PM
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Pedal 8 is called the "Boo-wah" pedal because the sound of the 10th string dropping from C to A is like a fog horn. But actually pedal 8 is an extemely useful jazz pedal because of the major 7th interval it creates between strings 3 and 7, by raising string 7 a 1/2 tone. There are various other ways to get a major 7th interval on the C6 tuning as well, but in particular, pedal 8 in conjunction with the other strings and in combo with floor pedal 7 or a 1/2 tone knee lever raise on string 4 (A->Bb) gives you a lot of potential for jazz harmony. The 10th string "Boo-wah" is a bonus. In fact, Doug Jernigan's alternate pedal 4, which was the initial topic of this thread, uses the pedal 8 concept by ALSO raising string 7 a 1/2 tone, similarly creating the same major 7th interval with the same surrounding strings (except string 6). However, by dropping string 9 a whole tone, it creates a heavily jazz ALTERED sound. This is how DJ sometimes uses it. |
John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 11 July 2003 01:22 PM
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Thanks everyone- it is making more sense to me to stick to the standard P4 until i get to the point where I can really see the lay of the land more clearly- but I sure can see the use of the 2nd and 3rd string raises and pulls! |
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