Interestingly, knee-levers (on a lap steel) may have even been available before floor-pedals on a console-type steel. I'm still trying to find out which really came first, floor pedals (on the Harlin), or knee-levers (on the Harmolin). I suspect the same company produced both.

It is interesting to note that before, during and even after Bud recorded "Slowly" (and changed the steel guitar forever), a number of players playing PSG's (Harlan's, Gibson's, Fenders, etc) used them mainly for changing the basic tuning. Or for chording. Rather than use the "moving tone" movement that Bud used which drove many of us crazy.

But when "Slowly" came out, it was sooo very unique and spine tingling (for many), that the PSG as we know it today was born; and "that sound" has evolved into what most think of when they say pedals nowadays.

There were some players like Juaguin Murphy, Alvino Rey, Herb Remington, Maurice Anderson, etc, who never did aspire to "that sound". So they continued to play PSG the way it was originally intended. But most I believe, followed the BI/BE/JD style.

according to this thread it was the other way around: Buddy Emmons split the pedals first and Jimmy Day followed.

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 02 May 2004 at 08:23 AM.]

The link you posted does not work on my computer.

I believe the following is the thread you were referring to:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/006283.html

Buddy indeed set the record straight. If there be any doubt, please read Buddy's posts on the subject thread.

Winnie is correct about Jimmy Day inserting the E note between the D and F# strings on the original E13th tuning shown below. This is how come we lost the low E on our beloved E9th tuning. Also why some, like Tom Brumley, play an 11 string E9th.

E
C#
B
G#
F#
D
B
E

To the best of my knowledge the following is correct:

1. Bud Isaacs had Bigsby install two pedals on his D-8 Bigsby; one pulling the high B and G# to C# and A respectively. The second one lowered the bottom strings to finish out the A6 tuning. Most of his recordings only made use of the first pedal. I believe this was in the mid 50's.

2. Buddy split that one pedal of Bud Isaacs into our present A and B.

3. Buddy told Jimmy Day about it, and Jimmy split it into B and A.

4. Jimmy Day added the E between the D and F# strings noted above.

5. Ralph Mooney added the high G# to A string change.

6. Buddy added our present 1st and 2nd strings. He first had them on the bottom. Later had Shot put them in there present positions. This of course spawned the 10 string PSG.

7. I do not know who created the C pedal. My guess is Buddy.

8. I do not know who created the first knee lever on E9th, same guess however. This knee lever lowered 2 and 8 a half a tone.

9. Someone (I have not a clue) made this one knee lever into two knee levers by removing the 8th string lower and installed a 2nd knee lever adding the 4th string lower to it which is the lever that lowers the E's now. The lever is called the D lever by some and the E lever by others. (E sounds more logical to me).

Note: I first saw this change on Buddy Charleton's Sho-Bud several days after it was installed as he played it behind ET on the stage of the GOO. Don't remember the year.

10. Buddy created the whole tone change on string 2. I believe he first used this incredible change on a classic Ray Price hit, but for the life of me I can't recall the name. The lick made use of unison notes on strings 2 and 5 resolving into two different directions which perfectly emulated Ray's voice/phrasing on the song.

11. Lloyd Green added the F knee lever. (Raises 4 and 8 a half a tone. I believe he first used it on a Tammy Wynnet(sp) number but again I do not recall the name.

12. I do not know who created the G lever (raises 1 and 7 a whole tone). Lloyd mabye?

13. Buddy changed this and created the G# to F# (6th string) whole tone lower in lieu of the 7th string raise on the "G" lever.

14. Paul Franklin added pedal 4 on E9th lowering 5, 6 and 10 a whole tone.

16. Paul Franklin created the knee lever that raises 1 and 7 a whole tone and raised the 2nd string a half a tone. This change along with the pedal above can be heard on hundreds and hundreds of present day recordings.

Again, this is to the best of my knowledge. If anyone has factual information that would change or add to the above, I would sincerely like to know about it. Also, I will respectfully stand corrected on any statement(s) that are not factual.

May Jesus continue to bless those talented players who pioneered our beloved PSG, and may he bless all of you richly,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 02 May 2004 at 08:22 AM.]

the link didn't work on any computer. I edited my post and corrected it. It is, indeed, the same thread you refer to. Thanks for pointing it out.

I did not know that. As I stated, I sincerely want to know who did what. As always, I stand corrected respectfully for any error(s) I committ.

I will say in all fairness to PF, that many of the recordings coming out of Nashville over the last 10 or so years has had that unique change. Along with the 7th string whole tone raise and the 2nd string 1/2 tone raise. Which incidently is fast becoming a standard change on RKL. At least the 1st and 2nd string raises are.

So would it be correct to say the following:

1. Buddy Emmons first created the high F# to G# whole tone raise in '74.

2. Paul Franklin later added the knee lever that raised the 1st and 7th strings to G# AND the 2nd string to an E.

Quoting Jack Webb on his classic "Dragnet" TV show,

"Just the facts mam!!"

er "man"

Who was first? Only God knows for sure

I suspect many players experiment with the same musical ideas as other players of the same instrument. Because we all follow the path that our personal knowledge of music leads us, it is inevitable that several arrive at the same experimental place in and around the same time period. Other players were also exploring this change along this same time period.

In the early seventies, one of the reasons I used this change was because it is a logical way to play a pedals down major seventh. (I am refering to using strings 4,5,6, A&B pedals activated and the first string raised to G#.) Major sevenths were the pop chords of the seventies and my desire to play more inversions across the neck spawned the idea to raise the F# to G#.

Buddy certainly deserves the credit for the first recorded use of the 1st string F# to G# change. I too, was not aware that this recording existed until this forum. He also deserves the credit for popularizing the Eb to C# lower. "Touch MY Heart" brought about its popularity.

In the late 60's I raised the Eb to E for awhile instead of lowering the 4th E to Eb. It wasn't until the late eighties that I thought of combining the two changes (F#/G# & Eb/E) Personally I believe that my earlier 70's explorations with this change never saw the full commercial potential until it was combined.

Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 06 May 2004 at 07:35 PM.]

There are MANY patents. All the ones you know-- Fender, Sho-Bud (both the fingertip and the others), Emmons p/p, and many others.
Bob Grossman had a whole file of patent drawings that he sent to me for a while. I think Tom Bradshaw got them when I returned them to Bob. It was A THICK file-- starting with the Moore patent for the Gibson, and then through the Harlin Multichords, and everything in between.
If you are lucky enough to live near one of the patent depositories (they had one in Philly) you can get copies.
I think the patent office is on-line and has some of the stuff available.
Best to start with the first few and then see where to go, because each reference the other to show why theirs is different.

In the late 80's and throughout the 90's Country music started to sound closer to the pop music of the 70's which allowed me the freedom to explore the 5,6, and 10 drop along with the 1, 2, and 7 raise on records. Hit records gave these changes the exposure they needed, and the combined minds of many pro players have proven those changes are not just commercial fluff. No slanted bar can capture the depth of these changes.

In summary, I believe the shift in the boundaries of Country music is why these changes are becoming standard issue today. Although those changes were explored individually by many in the seventies, the music wasn't ready to widely accept these disonant but beautiful voicings on the E9th until the 90's.

Also Tommy White deserves credit for expanding the pedal four changes through his playing by splitting it up into two pedal changes. I liken that to when Buddy and Day split the A & B pedals. The whole spectrum of possibillities opens up. Just like they did, we accomplished this differently by not sharing info in advance. I get the splits by raising 7 a whole tone, but I believe Tommy's way will be the one that sticks. Also Jay Dee and several others chose to raise the seven a whole tone as I did instead of lowering the G# to F# as Buddy was doing back then.

Clearly, there has to be a compelling MUSICAL reason for a change to 'stick' as Paul says. And it is also true that modern country music is harmonically becoming more similar to pop music, with voicings a la Bruce Hornsby. A side result of that is the harmonic landscape of traditional country doesn't lay well on pop harmonies. Country emphasizes the tonic and major or minor third much more than pop and those harmonies can sound corny over the more (arguably) musically sophisticated pop progressions.

I believe that the rift between trad and contemporary country is made deeper, from the steel player's perspective, by the unwillingness to learn to make these newer sounds -- a lot of sus4 and add9 chords and other stuff based somewhat on stacking polychords. Playing a lick that leans on the major third over a sus4 chord just doesn't sound right. Some steel players still try to do it, don't like the way it sounds, and conclude that they hate new country music.

To me, it's all music. Some old country was crap. Some new country is crap. Duh. A good player will learn to play something appropriate over any chord changes that come along. What changes are popular on people's guitars are dictated by what kind of music we're playing. The breadth of styles people are exploring with pedal steel is increasing. From juju (Demola Adepoju) to pop (Greg Leisz) to legit jazz (Dave Easley) to electric blues (Robert Randolph) to who knows what. I believe this is a very healthy thing for the instrument. Along with that broadening will come the need for changes that are called for within the different musical styles or genres. The great mechanisms our builders have given us can take anything we can dish out (up to their mechanical limit). It is up to the players to create new combinations of pulls to meet the needs of the music.

After hearing Tom Brumley's solo on "Together Again" players started lowering the B string to Bb. Tom did not lower the B string for that solo, but it's hard to deny that Tom sounded like he was, therefor his solo led many towards that change.

In 1968 Tammy Wynette's "I Don't Want To Play House" was released. The licks Pete Drake played used a middle triad position between the pedals up and down frets. Pete accomplished the new F lever sound by combining two pedals. His 3rd pedal raised ONLY the E to F# and his 4th pedal raised the G#'s to A and the B to D.

Although his direction was NOT the most pratical way to achieve this middle triad position because he had to alter the standard C pedal to make it work, he certainly help to popularize its sound in its infancy. Lloyd cemented the choice everyone used for the middle position when he raised the E's to F and used it on "D-I-V-O-R-C-E" also released in "68".

Throughout the past history of the pedal steel guitar, deceptive licks on hits have led to the popularity of several new changes by spawning the search.

....Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 07 May 2004 at 01:07 PM.]

"It's easy to see that the F lever provides the third inversion of a major chord"

In practice most people think of the root position as an inversion (maybe the 'zeroth' inversion), although nothing is really inverted.

------------------
Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 09 May 2004 at 11:30 AM.]

It is also why I must have the split on the 6th string rather than getting the "3rd" minor chord on strings 4, 5 and 6 using pedals B and C. When a player has all 6 of these chord spellings at any fret (without having to move one's foot), it brings our beloved instrument closer and closer to the almost unlimited flexibility of the piano.

I heard Ralph Mooney using our present day B and C pedal sound on recordings so I had to have it; but I could only guess as to how he was getting it. My ear told me it involved raising the E to F# but having never met Ralph, I wasn’t familiar with his pedal setup.

As I recall, Buddy was playing a Fender 1000; obviously with no knee levers. I saw him come off his volume pedal with his right foot and cross over all of them pedals and tickle pedal 3 several times and back to his volume pedal to get that Mooney lick.

It was soo fast and so quick. But as usual Buddy made it look effortless. How do I know? Well, that classic grin never whinced once, jes stayed there the whole time as he "dazzled us with footwork".

Dang, I would settle jes' for the grin! And yes I ate my heart out!

Oh well

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 16 May 2004 at 10:00 AM.]

Since I rigged this guitar "old style," I put a G on top of C6, with the G-G# raise on p.5 . I may modify this to the high-low E to F tuning at a later date, if whoever winds up with it so chooses.

__________________________________
E9
    p1  p2  p3  p4  p5  p6  p7  p8
G#      A
E           F#                  F#
B   C#      C#
G#      A
F#
E
D
B   C#          
__________________________________
C6
G                   G#
E                       F
C                           D
A               B           B
G                   F#
E                       D#
C                               C#
A               B

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 16 May 2004 at 10:55 AM.]

I do have a G on non-pedal C6, however.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 16 May 2004 at 04:54 PM.]

quote:

---

Au contraire, r0bert.

---

Now that Herb may have whetted a few appetites with his faux Lunetuning, will anyone offer up any other vintage D-8 copedants?

[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 17 May 2004 at 02:34 PM.]

------------------------------------------
-------P1---P2---P3---P4---P5
1. G#------------A
2. E--------------------------F#
3. B--------C#
4. G#------------A
5. F#
6. E
7. C#
8. A
------------------------------------------
As you can see the "Mooney change" is there for the right foot. Pedals two and three down it's a big fat A6. This is the inside neck of the guitar, mid neck is E13 with all five pedals, and the outside neck is C6 with just one pedal (P1 raising the high C to D ).

[This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 18 May 2004 at 12:21 AM.]

Later I added another pedal and put it on there instead. The reason is twofold:

1. I found it very difficult to "tickle" that Mooney change having it on a vertical.

2. I wanted to make a single vertical lever that would go straight up and down and span past LKL and LKR.

It turned out great. I see now why Ralph has it on the floor. Sure you have to come off the volume pedal to engage it. But the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages IMO.