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Author
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Topic: Any recommendations for my new knee levers?
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Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 13 October 2004 04:17 PM
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I'm finally installing my 3rd and 4th knee levers on my 65 Fender 2000. I use the E to F, the E to Eb and now on my 3rd lever F# to G# with D# to E. What would be my best choice for the 4th? |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 13 October 2004 05:31 PM
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Either 2nd D#-C# and 10th B-A, or 2nd D#-D and 7th F#-F. That would be my 2 recommendations. One nice thing about that 'ol' Fender is that you can try about 30 setups in one evening! I'm sure you'll get a lot of different opinions, and I'm sure that probably nobody will agree with mine...but I like 'em!  |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 13 October 2004 09:03 PM
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You're right Donny, I do have the luxury of being able to switch setups easily, for the most part. My problem is that I'm still a little green on the instrument and I need to invest a lot of time on a new lever pull to figure out how I'm going to use it and if I like it. My new RKL can't be changed from it's current setup of 1st string F# to G#, and 2nd string D# to E due to the lever design's limitations. So my 4th RKR is the more versitile lever. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 13 October 2004 09:15 PM
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The second string D# to D is indispensable, in my opinion. |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 14 October 2004 06:43 PM
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I know that most people lower the 2nd string
D# to D to get a 7th chord. But I use my LKL to lower my Es to D#/D and get a nice 7th. Am I missing something, or does lowering that 2nd string have benefits besides getting a 7th chord?
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Bengt Erlandsen
Member From: Brekstad, NORWAY
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posted 14 October 2004 11:56 PM
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Besides the dom7th in open position (strings 8 6 5 2b, notes = Root 3rd 5th b7th)
I can think of:
1: Lowering 2nd string to D changes the major triad on strings 5 2 1 to a minor triad (strings 5 2b 1)
2: Lowering 2nd string to D gives the 4th note of the voicing when used together w A+B pedals ( fits the I and the V chord ) In key of C this lever/pedal combination will occur at the 3rd fret & the 10th fret.
3: Lowering 2nd string to D gives the note needed for all 4 notes of the diminished voicing when raising E's to F at the same time. Play strings 6 5 2b 4# 3 in that order to to get 1 octave of diminished scale.
4: Lowering 2nd string to D changes interval between strings 1&2 from minor to major.
5: Lowering 2nd string to D gives access to the b5 note when playing minor pentatonic stuff at the (IIIm open position) Example Em pentatonic at 8th fret w E's lowered ( Em = IIIm of C (open at 8th fret)) Use E's lowered to Eb together w 2nd string to D ( for the 4th note of the scale press Apedal. Starting on the 3rd string and playing down to 10th string like this:
Strings 3 1 4b 2b 5## 5 6 7 8b 9 10## 10
gives a minor pentatonic scale (w a b5 note) starting on the Root-note and going down almost 2 octaves to a b3rd note, all at the same fret.
6: Lowering 2nd string to D at the same time as using A pedal & E's lowered to Eb gives 3 chromatic notes on string 10## 9 8b or strings 5## 2b 4b. Try this 2 frets below the A+B position for any given major chord.
7: Lowering 2nd string to D to get an open D string or whenever you feel it is needed to get the desired voicing/scale or shift of bar position to sound right.There is probably a lot more uses for lowering 2nd to D but these are those I can define clearly.
Additional if you like 4voiced chords.
Open position, IIImin7th on strings 6 5 2 1
Open position, IIIm7b5 on strings 6 5 2b 1
with 2nd string lowered to D The 2 voicings above can be substituted for a Maj9th or Dom9th (include the 8 string together with strings 6 5 2 1 if you want the sound of the Root note) There is also a nice major6th voicing 2 frets above open position w Bpedal & Lowering 2nd string to D. Play strings 6# 5 2b 1 for the maj6th voicing ( notes = 5th 6th Root 3rd)
Or the same strings as a minor7th voicing 2 frets below A+B position. Play strings 6# 5 2b 1 for the min7th voicing ( notes = b7 Root b3rd 5th)
Bengt Erlandsen
ZumSteel S12extE9
JCH D10
[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 15 October 2004 at 12:18 AM.]
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Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 15 October 2004 02:08 AM
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many times we all get hung up in the " What chord will it give me" scenario.Maybe another way to view it is to understand what voicings these changes will allow. Another way to get from point A to point B.. I don't really think of the 2nd sting half step lower as another 7th position, although it is and I am certain that I use it..but I do look at it and use it as part of phrasing. Commonly, most Steels have the second string raise on probably RKL and a double lower on RKR..this gives 4 notes on the second string including the natural. There is a ton of phrasing on the 2nd string and I'm not one that tries to figure out what the correct chord spelling is for each combination, but I know the music is there. That little ole' 2nd string can be a powerful little friend.. t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 October 2004 at 02:10 AM.] |
Jerry Hayes
Member From: Virginia Beach, Va.
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posted 15 October 2004 04:38 AM
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That D note on the 2nd string is indispensable to me and most others. Heck, Jimmy Crawford actually tunes his 2nd string to D. Try this to see some of the scale things that can be done. Just tune the 2nd string to D and with no pedals play the strings in this order: 5 2 4 1 3 1 4 2 5.. Then with the A pedal only play the same strings in the same sequence. Then use both the A & B pedals and play it again. You'll hear some sounds you've heard before. That 2nd string lower IMHO is one of the most important on the steel. As I recall, when the ShoBud Mavericks came out with only one knee lever it lowered the 2nd and 8th strings a half. Have a good 'un...JH------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning. |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 16 October 2004 11:40 AM
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WOW! Thanks for a ton of info guys. I will incorporate that move and start practicing. |
Gary Shepherd
Member From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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posted 16 October 2004 12:09 PM
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One change I find really helpful in melodies is B to Bb. It also makes it easy to change a major chord (with A+B) to a minor chord (A+B+Lever). This makes it easy to walk from (for example) C at the 3rd fret (with A+B) to F at the 8th fret (with A+B) again.------------------
Gary Shepherd
Sierra Session 12
www.16tracks.com
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Gary Shepherd
Member From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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posted 16 October 2004 12:10 PM
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I started a thread a few days ago on copedents.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/008726.html ------------------
Gary Shepherd
Sierra Session 12
www.16tracks.com
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b0b
Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 16 October 2004 01:40 PM
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quote:
I know that most people lower the 2nd string
D# to D to get a 7th chord. But I use my LKL to lower my Es to D#/D and get a nice 7th. Am I missing something, or does lowering that 2nd string have benefits besides getting a 7th chord?
It's a scale tone at the II, V and VI positions. It's part of the major chord you get when you use B+C pedals. It's totally indispensable, in my opinion.
I hardly ever use it for a 7th chord. Mostly I use it as a melody/harmony note or for the B+C+D major chord. |
Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 16 October 2004 05:46 PM
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Also, root off the ninth string D with A+B for the major seventh chord, and use the lower to give you the high D. And in the A+F position lowering the 2nd string to D gives you a harmonic minor scale--root off the seventh string F#.-Travis |
Fred Glave
Member From: McHenry, Illinois, USA
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posted 18 October 2004 06:49 PM
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It's been 2 days now working with the 2nd string D# to D. It is amazing how blind I was. There are so many classic sounds that I didn't believe were there but are. I sacrificed the 1st and 2nd string raises from F# to G# and D# to E for this, but it's worth it. I also set my 4th lever up with the Franklin drop and I like that a lot too, though my Fender changers barely make it to that G# to F#. Thanks guys for the direction.[This message was edited by Fred Glave on 18 October 2004 at 06:50 PM.] |
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