so much said about this is for steel guitars and this is a topic i feel needs discussing for help to us all.

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73 PRO II, 79/80 PRO III
Steelkings,Fender guitars,Preston covers,
and Taylor(Tut that is)
Reso's
"Of all the things Ive lost in life, I miss my mind the most"

No excuse for that type of thing, and I've found similar types of things on just about every steel I've ever seen.

Now that I finally have my copedent, I also have a guitar that stays in tune for days and doesn't break strings. I never thought I would accomplish this.

A pretty good return for 5 bucks. Man have I learned a lot here in 6 months.

It's basically simple mechanics, nothing advanced at all.

To me, the underside of any pedal steel is a glorified Meccano set !!

(Indeed, many retrofitted bits on my Emmons push-pull ARE pieces of Meccano !)

Then there is the sound,tone matter.trying to make your guitar sound better.
also staying in tune perfect.things will sound great,then on one frett all at once a string doesn't blend.you adjust then things sometimes goes worse!!I am a nut for tuning by ear,LOVE IT. I use to take the lead guitar players guitar away from him,and say let me tune that thing. it would sound so bad.A lead guitar is terrible if the harmonics are not set right.

No a steel is nothing to be scared up to work on,just try to study and understand what your gonna do.Lots i still scratch my head on. Like Ricky says take those little springs out on certain pullers.then i go to studying,and figuring out what i'm doing.

I think there are two reasons to understand your guitar's mechanics. First, if something goes wrong on the job you can figure out what it is and what you need to do to remedy deal with the problem. Second, to maintain and modify your own guitar. Since I'm mechanically challenged, I don't really enjoy most of this stuff, but since I'm a player, when I want to try out a new change or move something, I don't want to wait. For me, mechanics has been a necessary evil that I've had to deal with.

Well, I have two 20-30 year old guitars and one new one. My Fessy is 2 years old and before that, I had a ZumSteel I got in 1980 that I played for 20 years. The Zum and the Fessy are modern design: you don't have to take them apart -- or at least remove cross shafts and stuff like that -- to add a new pull on an existing pedal or lever. Not so lucky with my push-pull and Sho-Bud.

Along with being a mechano-klutz, I have played pedal steel for 30 years. A certain amount of mechanical ability REALLY COMES IN HANDY for a steel player. I know very few players who have played gigs for decades and don't have HORROR STORIES about what fell off, slipped, broke or wouldn't work right. Some of them knew how to diagnose the problem and fix it right on the spot but others were just SCREWED.

If it happens on a new guitar with a modern all pull mechanism and you have a basic understanding of what moves when you press a pedal and activate a pull, you can figure it out. Older guitars have other problems, most notably:
Old parts (KL brackets, changer parts, etc.) can fail
The undercarriage doesn't always look like what we are accustomed to seeing. What moves when you pull a string is different.

I added three pedals and two knee levers to a push-pull, so I can figure it out. And it worked and played ok, but I ended up taking it to Mike Cass. Now it plays better and is more or less to factory set up specs. AND I learned by looking over his shoulder when he was setting it up. He rerodded the whole guitar and I watched him rebuild the setup. BUT, I really have to think carefully about mechanical stuff to understand how to time multiple changes or increase / decrease throw and how it changes the feel.

Understanding how your pedal steel raises and lowers strings and how to adjust throw and diagnose common problems is an important skill to possess -- even if you're a mechano-klutz.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

"If you spent more time on top of the guitar instead of under it you would play better by now."

One of the most productive statements I ever took to heart.

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Bob
My Website

Wasn't that Johnny Cash/Bob Dillon?

I'd rather have a guitar set up perfectly and in tune and just play the thing....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

quote:

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"If you spent more time on top of the guitar instead of under it you would play better by now."

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quote:

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If you don't spend ANY time under it, the time will come when you're sorry you didn't.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

seems to me,we all need two steels,because sometimes need time on the bench with one.
making repairs,ordering parts.ect. I like to go to the mill,lathe ect.and build a part i need,want, don't like to be rushed,so i need a player to use while the other is down.

I know this is very debateable,cost either way,but,if you watch real close sooner or later can pick up a good used one.

It cost anyway you go about it.shipping,labor,parts,and waiting. vrs.buying a good used one.

sure lots may not agree with me on this,but i;m just a poor fellow,and living on limited income cuts the spending.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

If you just play at home or for your own amusement, there doesn't seem to be much need of really knowing your guitar mechanically unless you want to experiment with different changes.

However, a pro or frequent gigging player, is in deep trouble if something goes out of adjustment and he doesn't have the requisite skill to diagnose and repair. I've never understood the pros I've run into who couldn't work on their own guitars.

Of course that may be that "different wiring"... it's the same with knowing your guitar the other way- just look at the differences in the reponses to Denny Turner's theory threads!

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

I also don't like to get my hands dirty. Ever messed with aluminum in a machine? Crap goes everywhere.

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

I came along before the CNCS then had a country mach. shop for 30yrs. and being a poor boy,never could afford that stuff.all manual machines.

I just got a Plasma machine about 8yrs ago.
man i dreamed of the Plasma cam,run off computer. but heart surgery stopped that.

No, I don't understand the mechanics of the pedal steel, and I hope I don't ever have to. Fortunately, I live close by to my friend Tom Bradshaw, and he takes care of any problems my guitar might have. I have two almost identical Carters, same changes, etc. They almost never have problems, but if one of them does, I simply use the other one if there's any waiting time for the repairs to be made. There is no sacrifice in sound and they're both just as easy for me to play. If I didn't have the luxury of someone like Tom near by, I would pay to send it back to Carter or wherever I have to for the needed repairs. I love to play the pedal steel, and I choose to spend as little time as possible on the mechanics of it. Sometimes when doing an "important" gig or recording session, I'll actually bring my second guitar along, just in case it was needed. I've never had to use it yet though.

I was once in a similar situation, both your mechanical ineptitude and proximity to an excellent steel guitar technician, my dear friend Clifford Kirk. When Clifford passed away, I felt the need to remember all those little tricks that Cliff would use when working on my guitar. He taught me how all pull changers work. That was a major accomplishment.

I've sent my Emmons to Mike Cass and John Coop is currently rebuilding my Sho-Bud, but I try to do as much as I can to avoid embarrassment in a gig situation when something goes awry. Understanding how strings pull, pedals and levers are adjusted, and a pickup is wired can come in really handy.

I hope Tom lives forever, but offer this little anecdote FWIW.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

There are more than a few little tricks on most brands that I'm not sure most people could figure out without having seen it done. I'm thinking of things like using a second rod for a split tuning, or the reversing linkage on pedal two that Carter uses. I never would have thought of that one. A first timer working on an older ZB might really want some guidance!