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Steel players do it without fretting

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[This message was edited by basilh on 19 February 2006 at 12:48 PM.]

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I have an imaginary 6-string in the works - the prototype hasn't been built yet.

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Sounds like a great idea, b0b... but if's it's an "imaginary" steel, can't you just imagine it's built?

Sorry, I'll go back into my corner now.

Seriously, let us know when it's done, and some pics too.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 19 February 2006 at 04:58 PM.]

That's not correct. Quite a few of us use 8 string steels. I refer you to the many threads regarding Fender 400's and 1000's. Sneaky Pete would likely get a real giggle out of that statement.

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Quite a few of us use 8 string steels.

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About 20 or 30 members of this forum at least.

You do consider members here important, right?

Regardless, even one means not "everybody" plays 10 string.

There are quite a few 12 string players as well.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 21 February 2006 at 06:15 AM.]

If Jim chooses to play an instrument that most of us consider to be obsolete, that's his choice. But to Matt and anybody else starting out, I stand by my recommendation that tney get a guitar with 10 or 12 strings, 3 floor pedals and at least 3 knee levers, preferaby 4 or 5.

The Carter Starter has 4, making it an ideal student guitar. One should also consider a used pro model.

But whatever you buy, if you get less than the recommended minimum, there will come a point where you want to play something that your guitar won't allow you to play.

It is better to have things on your guitar that you don't need, than to need things that you don't have.

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 21 February 2006 at 02:03 PM.]

Your remarks help to answer Matt's question how???

You both should take b0b's frequently posted advice to "attack the issue NOT the person".

[This message was edited by John Fabian on 21 February 2006 at 08:32 AM.]

Mike decided to say "everyone" plays 10 string. This thread was about 6-string pedal steels, which do exist. As do 8 strings and 12 strings. He was in error, and I clarified the point without an attack.

Mike decided to imply nobody except Sneaky Pete is "important" on the 8 string. That's also incorrect. No personal attacks. Yet.

Mike: "Your attitude that everybody who plays country music is an ignorant toothless cousin marrying redneck and that you know more about music than any of us uneducated yokels is offensive and obnoxious."

I have said none of this at all.

I have said I don't play country, but not insulted it. I've pointed out I respect the country players even though it's not my style.

I have never said I know mre about music - I've clearly said I know LESS than almost everyone here, and asked for help with theory.

Mike, I don't know why you do this stuff. You're entire last post is based on stuff I've never said nor implied. I'm sorry that you don't like me because I don't want to "pay my dues playing country", but we are all allowed to take our own road with any instrument. That's how progress is made.

Anyway - back to the 6, strings, Don Miller in Alaska uses one live with his band and thinks it's tremendous. He's only a part-time steeler, so uses it for "pedal steel sounds". He doesn't consider himself a "real" pedal steeler, but says the instrument is very well built and sounds terrific. Might be a great thing for a lap-steel player for some variety.

One member already emailed me asking if he'd sell it! But no, he likes it far too much.

I think the Multikords are also something with possibilities for a lapsteel player.

Not everyone wants or needs a 10-string, traditional steel. There are lots of other playing styles out there. But Don plays country on his Cougar, and Tom Brumley sure as heck played country (as did a host of others) on 8-strings.

A six-string pedal steel would give you a variety of tunings to work with quickly, or could be set up with "lick pedals" for playing lead parts with little bar movement. Either way, you could have a lot of fun with one, and may not need to go to the unfamiliar territory of a traditional pedal steel depending on your style.

I just like it...Oh, I like Jim Sliff too.

;-)

Matt - I'm probably not well-versed enough in different tunings to give advice, but if I was going to move from a D tuning lap steel to a 6-string pedal steel I think I'd first try your normal tuning. Then I'd play with pedal changes that do the same thing as your slants do now, plus maybe a single pedal or two-pedal combination that takes you to a IV or V chord. Also, perhaps a dominant-7th change.

If you pop over to the Clarence White Forum (www.clarencewhiteforum.com) and look for Don Miller, shoot him an email and ask what he uses. Unfortunately I don't have his email with me at work and it would be faster if you jumped there yourself. He's a good guy, very helpful, and showed me my first non-dobro lapsteel tunings.

Mike - I understand your feelings in a way. I wish you didn't dislike me so much, especially for things I haven't said, but I can't change you. Please try to understand that there are many people here approaching things differently than you're used to. The guy who started this thread wanted six-string steel advice, not to be told he's wasting his time unless he does it the way you think it needs to be done with equipment you say he needs. Maybe someday we can sit down, have a cup o' Joe and kick around instrument ideas. It might actually be fun.

But remember - everybody doesn't play 10-string steel. Everybody isn't GOING to play country as an intro to learning pedal steel.

Man, I bet Buddy Emmons ticked some people off when he started messing with those confounded chromatic strings! It's hell being outside the politically-correct traditionalists...

I would love to see a 6 string pedal/lap steel. I imagine the open D/ open E tuning shape (EBEG#BE). Lose the bottom E and/or throw a G# on top, and there you have all the strings of a pedal steel anyway, minus your top chromatics, the b7 (9th string) and the F# (7th string). I'd keep all the changes the same... A, B & C pedals, lowers and raises for the E's...
All your 3rds and 6ths are there, your AB changes, minor, major, diminished, dominant chords, and more strumming possibilities than you can shake a stick at! I'd love this mini-steel setup! Plus, it would be way easier for beginners to learn on an instrument that has a lot more similarities to an E Major lap steel.

Addendum:
Let's imagine the tuning is EBEG#BE; I might prefer if the A pedal (or a separate pedal) raised the 2nd string B to a C# and lowered the 5th string to an A, so that way, by engaging the AB change, it would move the steel into a low bass A tuning: EAEAC#E... Yeah!

Edited to add: I just read b0b's pedalcaster copedant, and realized we came to the exact same conclusions; right down to my low bass A idea!

b0b, clearly you're a genius.

-Tim

[This message was edited by Tim Tweedale on 21 February 2006 at 02:21 PM.]

I could not find an affordable Cougar six, but I did find a very affordabe Cougar SD10.

The idea of a 6 string model for guitarists making the transition to steel might seem like a good idea, but it’s only a matter of time before a new player who has one reads about some lick that requires more strings, and finds that their instrument won’t allow them to play it.

When you get right down to it, the 10 string PSG players I hear don't seem to be hampered by the string spacing very much!

"Jim,
what you described was about what i was thinking. I've played 6 string lap steel for almost a year now and i really like it, mostly for playing lead on blues and rock stuff and for more "steely" sounding stuff on folk and country/rock songs. i just thought that perhaps a 6 string pedal steel like this might add some more versitility to the latter."

Mike: "But the inplication that an old 8 string is a viable alternative to a modern 10 or 12 string is simply bad advise to a newbie."

No, it's not. Not when the person asking questions isn't asking about 10-string steels. For his application, a 6-string would be a viable and fun alternative. So would an 8. He didn't ask about modern, "normal" instruments, he asked about something unusual. Why try to force him to something that doesn't fit what he wants to do?

No additional comments are really necessary. If you wish to continue your off-topic attacks in the future though, Mike, please do so through email. I've tried to be nice and offer a handshake, but you don't want it. And anyone who thinks I'm a little upset, it was a real doozy that was edited out.

PS - BTW, there is a significant spacing difference that can make a difference to some players. I find 10 string spacing far too tight after years of dobro playing. the 8 and 6 strings are far easier to play, especially for someone transitioning from lapsteel who isn't looking for chromatic strings and a traditional country platform.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 21 February 2006 at 07:37 PM.]

But in your zeal to promote the steel guitar in other musical genres, you really do come across as being comtemptuous of country music and everybody who plays it. Maybe this is not your intent, but I know I'm not the only one who gets the impression that you feel this way. Perhaps you ought to think about the way you put things.