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Author
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Topic: Tone and Sustain Mod
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Billy Morgan
Member From: Talladega, Alabama
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posted 26 October 2006 10:54 AM
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I have a Mullen SD-10 and have owned it for several years. I am an Emmons type person and also own an Emmons P/P and an Emmons Legrande II. Although the Mullen is a great guitar mechanically, I have never been satisfied with the sound.
It is my opinion that it was a very thin, shrill sounding guitar and lacked both tone and sustain. I took the advice of some good players that I can depend on and know what a pedal steel should sound like and had Tommy Young do a mod on the guitar. The results are truly amazing. It brought the guitar back to life. It now has tone to the bone and sustains as good as any guitar I have heard. It’s hard to believe the improvement and when you go above the twelfth fret all I can say is amazing. I would think that anyone liking the push pull sound would love this guitar.
I don’t have a dog in this guitar mod fight, I’m neutral. I also know that sound is very subjective, but I’ve been playing steel guitar and working jobs for twenty-five years and I know what I hear. It turned a good guitar into an excellent one. I would recommend anyone interested, no matter what brand of guitar you may have, to contact him at 662 328-9511, because in my opinion this is the real deal.
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Mark Eaton
Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA
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posted 26 October 2006 11:30 AM
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Can you give us a brief overview of what he did to the guitar to make such a dramatic improvement?------------------
Mark
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Tim Bridges
Member From: Hoover, Alabama, USA
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posted 26 October 2006 11:39 AM
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I asked Tommy and he said that's his secret and what you pay for when he does the work. |
chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 26 October 2006 12:38 PM
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a very good steel player in sacramento, jim gray, has had some of the best steels i've ever heard. one of his latest was a mullen d-10. i played it for a minute and it was beautiful...sounded perfect...right out of the box...so i can't imagine anyone needing to change it! he also had a thomas which i felt the same way about. jim is now getting a carbon fiber msa millenium for the weight reduction issue.... i still play an old zum which sounds perfect...or terrible....but it's all due to my own ability. |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 26 October 2006 01:53 PM
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Billy,
A friend of mine has a mullen and it has never been a very "thin shrill sounding guitar." [This message was edited by tbhenry on 28 October 2006 at 07:51 PM.] |
Bill McCloskey
Member From:
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posted 26 October 2006 02:55 PM
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hmm...I seem to be experiencing deja vu. |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 26 October 2006 09:57 PM
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Oh, boy. Yeah, bill, de joo-joo. So why do I have to open my mouth? I really can't tell you why. But here I go: I believe everybody here. I believe that Billy's Mullen didn't meet his sound expectations -- and he is an experienced player. And I believe that Tommy's mod made it sound a hell of a lot better. Why in the world would we assume otherwise? I also believe that most Mullins sound incredible--out of the box. What Tommy needs to do is get someone to record their steel before the mod, and record it afterwards, just the steel, same settings, same equipment, same songs, riffs, etc. Before and after. Al |
tommy young
Member From: columbus,ms. usa
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posted 27 October 2006 08:19 AM
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thanks for the kind words billy i'm glad u are now enjoying your guitar, al i'm trying to get someone to do just that very thing so it can be put on here for anyone to listen to, thanks for the help and i hope to soon have a clip tommy young |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 27 October 2006 09:00 AM
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I don't think sound clips are going to convince many people. A twist of a dial or a new set of strings can make the "before" and "after" sound different. Before most people are going to turn their expensive instruments over for a mod, you are going to have to give some explanation of what you are going to do to their guitar. Somehow, without revealing the whole "secret," you are going to have to give us some kind of general idea of what type of alterations you will do. |
Robert Jones
Member From: Conway, Arkansas
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posted 27 October 2006 10:20 AM
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I have been playing Mullen guitars for years and am yet to play or hear one that needed worked on. I have a combination of George L pickups and Tube Works that I play through and have "Tone to the bone." I can't even imagine someone having to do something to the guitar that Del hasn't already thought of. I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement. I know Del well enough that he is still working on things and will no doubt come up with something that will sound even better. ------------------
Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
"Life is too short for bad tone". |
Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 27 October 2006 01:00 PM
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Tommy's ability is not limited to one brand.
He has enhanced the tone on Mullen, Carter, and Zum guitars. All at the request of the
owners. The people that use Tommy will tell
you that his work is non-invasive and that
he is not out to do any damage to any builder's reputation. Tommy is all about
the player and his tone needs.
The main thing to remember is that some guitar owners are completely satisfied with
the raw tone coming from their setup. They
need not feel threatened by Tommy's work.
It simply does not apply to them in any form. They should be thankful that they have
exactly what they are looking for and listening for. As far as I know, All(Thanks
Chris) steel guitars are assembled
by humans. To me, that means, if even to a small degree, that no two steels are exactly
the same. Every part of the guitar plays a part in the tone factor. Tommy just tries
to tweak every component of the guitar for
optimum tone and clarity. At least that is
what he did for me. All of this my opinion
so please aim your flames at me, not Tommy.[This message was edited by Eddie D.Bollinger on 27 October 2006 at 03:47 PM.]
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chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 27 October 2006 02:19 PM
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ok eddie....the majority of steels are assembled by humans...but what about the rest of them?? |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 27 October 2006 03:07 PM
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I guess that we shall have to just wait and see what impact this mod has in the future.[This message was edited by tbhenry on 28 October 2006 at 09:32 PM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 27 October 2006 03:09 PM
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No flame intended. It's just too much of mystery without further clarification. |
Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 27 October 2006 03:43 PM
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Point Taken Chris.....Wrong choice of words
and I was being just a bit sarcastic.Sorry.Tommy hasn't been doing this work all that
long so I am sure that only a few people
know enough about it to debate the issues.
I know that Tommy is working on a way to put
it out in the open for comparison. Then the
issue can be put to rest provided that only
the people who have had the service done
and people who have heard the results
for themselves are doing the debating.
People who debate this in the name of one
steel manufacturer or another are not helping to further the idea of this forum.
The purpose of this great forum is to
exchange information that can help someone
who needs that particular help.
Once again, I say that not everyone needs
Tommy's help. I did. But even before that,
I was proud to call Tommy my friend.
A new idea should be exciting to our group.
I think it is to the people who are looking
for a better overall tone. There is no reason for this to be a threat to anyone
or any company.
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tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 27 October 2006 03:46 PM
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,[This message was edited by tbhenry on 28 October 2006 at 07:49 PM.] |
chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 28 October 2006 08:51 AM
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just havin' fun with you, eddie...anything people want to do to improve steels is ok with me. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 28 October 2006 09:09 AM
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quote:
...his work is non-invasive and that
he is not out to do any damage...
So then, we can probably assume he's not adding, subtracting, or substituting parts. Maybe he's just tightening or loosening certain screws to attain the best sound and tone...a general "tweaking", as it were? This probably takes more time than anything; adjusting, playing; adjusting, playing. I do know Ron Lashley once said "One screw in the wrong place can ruin the sound of a steel", and I've experienced myself, first-hand, how much tightening some screws in a piece of wood can change it's properties. Every time I think that no one can know more about a product and it's users than the manufacturer of that product, I'm reminded of what John LeMay did for Peavey amplifiers. |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 28 October 2006 07:44 PM
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tbhenry -- that's an interesting comment about Bobbe and other pros. I don't know if you've noticed, but Bobbe's said nothing (I don't think) about Brad's Black Box. Do you think perhaps this means the Black Box has no merit? I wouldn't think so, but just because Tommy's not endorsed by a big name might just mean he's not had one as a customer yet. Tommy -- I support you, man! Since I'm not a "professional," though, and am pretty happy with my tone, I don't think I would be a customer unless I ran into a lot of extra money. Good luck with your mods, and I hope you make a lot of steelers happy. And don't reveal your secret! i personally like the mystery accompanied with endorsements by reputable players. Al |
Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 28 October 2006 10:38 PM
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Donny, that is an excellent analogy of Tommy's approach to tone enhancement.
Tommy understands that everyone's benchmark
of tone is different. He simply tries to get
the most out of any guitar he is working on,
so the brand really doesn't matter.
I have seen him take a single 10,student
guitar and get incredible tone and sustain
out of it so it really isn't about body size
or style either. This tone correction
procedure is not totally new. I think Tommy's approach and expertise is what sets
him apart. |
Dale Stacy
Member From: Pontotoc, Ms. U.S.A.
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posted 29 October 2006 09:16 PM
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As I have posted in the past, Tommy has worked on 3 guitars for me and all with great tone . I would like to add that normally the guitar is left with Tommy at his shop and it usually takes approx 3 to 4 days to complete.As you can see from this that it is not possible for the customer to observe everything being done to the guitar.
Eddie and Donny you are correct about the tweaking of screws and etc. but it goes much further than just that. He performs some new ttechniques in areas such as neck,changer,
p/up and even the keyhead/rollernut. As stated by Eddie, these are non-invasive changes to the guitar. Also it is true that Tommy has just began offering this service to the steelguitar world. He has been working on this for quite some time doing a great deal of trial and error.
I think those who have the opportunity to hear and compare will definitely hear a difference.
The forum is a great communication tool for all of us to use to discuss new ideas and thoughts concerning Steelguitar. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 30 October 2006 04:55 AM
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quote:
I asked Tommy and he said that's his secret and what you pay for when he does the work.
Oh no. Is this done with smoke and mirrors? |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 30 October 2006 06:07 AM
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Odd how in the 6-string world techs write articles specifically to share how they do things like this...and here we have the "cloak-and-dagger" treatment. I doubt Tommy would lose any business if he disclosed his "secrets", as there are plenty of players unwilling to play with the "dirty side" of the guitar anyway. Just those with an experimenter's knack (and usually a lower budget) woudl do mods themselves.Seems kind of a disservice to withhold such information. "It is my opinion that it was a very thin, shrill sounding guitar and lacked both tone and sustain." - I would have to say that about every recording I've heard where I knew it was a Mullen. Why not share the information and do a service to the steel community? Actually, it would probably *increase* his business and give him added crdibility. |
Joe Smith
Member From: Charlotte, NC, USA
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posted 30 October 2006 06:27 AM
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Well, I still say that all I did to my Mullen was change the PUs to 10-1s, It gives the guitar a fatter sound. It still sounds like a Mullen, plays like a Mullen. Hummm must be because it is a Mullen. I have three steel guitars and they all have 10-1s and they all sound different. My Carter sounds like a Carter, My Fessy sounds like a Fessy, and My Mullen still sounds like a Mullen.
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tommy young
Member From: columbus,ms. usa
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posted 30 October 2006 06:47 PM
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gentlemen what i do is not for the amatuer if it were then all of u would be doing it and it has taken me a very great deal of time, effort and thought and mechanical knowledge to do this mod on several kinds of guitars as they are all different even the royal-pre. and pre royal are different as is carter and zum all different in their on distinct sounds & characteristics are different so to tell u in a few words is totally out of the ?????? for all that dont understand this TONE is the resonance of the guitar, wood, aluminum, steel screws washers , the design of each are different, all of these factors and other things as in how the wood was dried how rich the soil was have an effect on how the pup hears the TONE that it produces to it, it((pick-up) only changes the highs and lows of the total SOUND, and most people do not understand this just ask the /////T O N E \\\\expert (((bs)) and many of the great steel players and builders of our time that try their best to accomplish having a better TONE, and is very tricky to do,, is why i cant tell u all that i do because i change the way a guitar resonates this-- TONE---- the end result is what we hear, thanks sorry for the long thread not only that some wont ever sound good but most will if u find the DEAD spot and correct it thanks TOMMY YOUNG |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 30 October 2006 09:25 PM
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Tommy's talking in code now.Jim -- "Cloak and dagger?" I don't think you really mean that. Cloak, maybe, but I've seen no evidence of a dagger. Also, Jim, I didn't want to post in the Fender thread, but...oh, I won't say it. I'll just post there. Go, Tommy! Al |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 31 October 2006 02:52 AM
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Tommy, Since you had this figured out before you started receiving money for doing this mod you were an amateur? Now you get paid for doing it, that makes you a professional - right? Since you were an amateur when you figured out which screws to tighten and how much, perhaps there is hope that some of us might be able to stumble on this secret! |
Mike Wheeler
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 31 October 2006 05:07 AM
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You got it, tb. Keep on stumblin'.  |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 31 October 2006 07:27 AM
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Tommy, If nothing is added or taken away in your mod what do you do with the wood grown in poor soil?"For all that dont understand this TONE is the resonance of the guitar, wood, aluminum, steel screws washers , the design of each are different, all of these factors and other things as in how the wood was dried how rich the soil was have an effect on how the pup hears the TONE." |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 31 October 2006 10:10 AM
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Guitars are often quite different in their character. One steel might be able to be improved considerably, while another of the same make might be just fine the way it came from the factory. I think the general concensus is "don't fix it unless you're sure it's broke". As always, I'd advise anyone to get a really good player to assess your steel before you go having it modified. Many times (but certainly not always), the biggest problem is between the seat and the steel.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 31 October 2006 at 10:10 AM.] |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 31 October 2006 10:22 AM
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What happens if you do the mod to a guitar that already sounds real good? I mean, suppose I were to send you my Williams D-12 Crossover? Would the mod change its sound, and if so, in what way? |
Al Miller
Member From: Nashville, TN
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posted 31 October 2006 10:38 AM
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The soil That the wood was grown in?? whats next . what type of mineral deposits were in the slag that the endplates were made from?
Come on fellas this is gettin way to deep.. if we spent as much time woodsheddin
on our guitar as we do trying to argue
what the soil content that the maple tree had before it was a steel has to do with its tone .. awww never mind .. just play your guitars.. they all sound wonderful..
Boo Miller |
Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 31 October 2006 02:06 PM
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I believe I have said this before but I will say it one more time. If a guitar has more pontential resonance than is being heard, Tommy can find what is causing the problem. If your guitar sounds good to you then you don't need Tommy. "Resonance Potential" is the variable here. If you are satisfied with the amount of resonance and clarity you are getting, this service would be completely unnecessary for you.[This message was edited by Eddie D.Bollinger on 31 October 2006 at 02:10 PM.] |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 31 October 2006 04:00 PM
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Another factor that Tommy might consider as well as the soil is the type of water used to water the tree from which the wood was sawn to make the steel guitar cabinet. The ph can make a great difference. Acidic water will give a more mellow "resonance potential", whereas alkali water will give a brighter "resonance potential". [This message was edited by tbhenry on 01 November 2006 at 01:08 PM.] |
Eddie D.Bollinger
Member From: Calhoun City, Mississippi
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posted 31 October 2006 06:06 PM
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Mr. Henry,
I ask you stop demeaning Tommy and the service he offers. If you disagree with the principle of the idea, that is fine. You have voiced that opinion. We have heard it and it is duly noted. Please don't cause any more trouble that would cause this thread to be closed. Let's assume that this is still worth intelligent conversation. You have no proof of your argument, Tommy has plenty. I have 2 guitars in my possesion that are my proof. I think it is smart to question what we don't understand but foolish to condemn what we choose not to consider.
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tommy young
Member From: columbus,ms. usa
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posted 31 October 2006 06:57 PM
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B0B why would u want me too mod a good sounding guitar, ----well, first i would need to know what u are expecting of the guitar a benchmark of ----sound, tone, resonance,above fret 12 below fret 12 just what u are looking for as in what u want me to try and help because without a finish benchmark i know nothing of what u are expecting and if this can be accomplished as in some 12 strings the sustain is lacking as compared to a ten string guitar and can be helped on some and some not, on the williams i believe i can help it, but on some others not as much and when u help the sustain it will also help the tone or resonance up above the 12th fret and will make the notes somewhat thicker sounding to the ear if u want any further help please call at 662-251-0948 thanks tommy young |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 31 October 2006 11:31 PM
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I guess my Williams guitar doesn't need the mod then. There's nothing wrong with its tone or sustain. I was just trying to understand. |
Bryan Rankins
New Member From: Missouri, USA
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posted 01 November 2006 02:20 AM
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While I don't have much experience with the pedal steel yet, I do have quite a bit with guitars (over 30 years of playing). I can remember having new pickups put in an older b-bender Tele ('cause I wanted to sound like a pedal steel) and I was very unhappy with the tone. I took it too the local Nashville guru and he asked what I was looking for, and after he was done, it was great. When I asked what he did so I could tell others, he just flat told me it was none of my business. He had spent years learning exactly which pot and capacitor combination would deliver what desired result depending on wood type and density. Now you can call it crazy for not wanting to share what he knows with the free world, but he has a very special skill and thats why just about every pro player takes their guitars to him to tweak. I have a sister who lives in Columbus and I think knowing Tommy is there gives me a reason to finally go visit her. Keep up the good work Tommy. |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 01 November 2006 06:39 AM
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quote:
Keep up the good work Tommy.
What work? Have you seen his work? Can you describe it? The power of suggestion is very strong. In the hospital where I work, the are some patients that call for pain meds hourly. Some of the physicians will have the nurses push 2 mL of saline solution through the patient's IV. Thats all it takes. The patients believe they received medication and they feel better. It is called the placebo effect. In the old days doctors referred to the placebo as a "sugar pill" Maybe what we have here is simular. A player wants to have better tone, so he sends his guitar off for the mod. When it comes back, the player can "hear" such a difference. Just what was done, if anything, is irrelevant. The player believes that something special, almost magical or mystical was done, so he "hears" a difference.
"I'll take my Mullen black, with sugar"
[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 01 November 2006 at 06:41 AM.]
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Lem Smith
Member From: Fulton, MS. U.S.A.
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posted 01 November 2006 08:07 AM
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Curt, I don't know Tommy, But I DO know Eddie and Dale, both of whom recommend it highly. Both Eddie and Dale are exceptionally fine musicians, who I am sure if they say they can hear a difference in their guitars, then there is indeed a difference.Actually, it seems somewhat offensive to me that you would suggest they would be so gullible as to not really be able to tell a difference in the sound of their very own guitars, and are simply just imagining it. |
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