Some people underestimate the tough-ness of many of the pros. The reason for the sporadic participation by the pros is because they are often busy and some of the topics have already been re-hashed several times.

I realize there are some others who do not want to participate unless you "kiss the ring." Too bad...but I do not give a rat's behind about those anyway.

That way nobody would bother them with disagreements, so their feelings wouldn't get hurt, if that's the way they want it, and we could all go there any time we wanted to find out what life on the "other side" is like.

Or not...

Of course then there are those I suppose there are those that claim "Pro Status" because of who "almost hired them",.or had a couple years worth of regular gigs 50 years ago..

I think Mr Emmons did sum it up pretty well, and I'm surprised that he took so many words.

I think the French say

Laissez Bon Temp Roullez

i'm not a pro,but i've played for 40yrs. how is a person suppose to be judged????

For instance, I recently did a search history on an amp to get some general info on its workings and sound. There were several drawn-out posts by people who didn't even own the particular model of amp in question, but still insisted on theorizing about what it MUST sound like, or zoning in on ohms, wattage, caps and molex connectors when all the post originator wanted was basic info from users of the amp.

I had the same experience with Peterson tuner threads. There's more advice about Peterson tuners from people who don't even own one than from people who do!

Also, I started a thread a while back asking if anyone was using a metal thumbpick. Right away I had replies from people stating that they'd never use one, or there'd be no convincing people to switch. I obviously wanted to hear from forum members who used one, not people's opposition to it.

This kind of stuff is discouraging for anybody, let alone the pros. I know that some interesting threads come from debates, particularly in the Music section where everybody has strong opinions. But the technical stuff should be left to those with hands-on experience with the gear in question. It makes for more informative and coherent threads.

I would love to see a "Pro-Players Only" section on this forum.

I say go for it.

Frank, when does one become old enough to fully understand what goes on here???

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I think it would be great to have a "Pro's only forum section".

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In some sort of way you are correct but in another you are not.Correct me if I'm wrong.Is this forum not set up as a guide for all steelplayers?Big or small,young or old?Wether they are pro's or amateur.

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For many years, most of the world's steel guitarists were isolated from each other. Information about the instrument was hard to find. The Internet has changed all that. Today non-pedal and pedal steel guitarists of all skill levels share their knowledge with many other players every day.

The Steel Guitar Forum has been bringing all steel guitarists together in a spirit of friendship and a common love of the instrument.

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Ron

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Today non-pedal and pedal steel guitarists of all skill levels share their knowledge with many other players every day.

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the shared information or experience is so often contradicted that it is not

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bringing all steel guitarists together in a spirit of friendship

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Ron, in what sort of way was I correct? You did not mention that part.

I agree with you that the forum is set up as a guide for *all* steel players.

If there are those who feel the necessity to have a "pro section only", they paid their $5 to become a member here just like I did so I think it's only fair to them to be able to make suggestions here as much as anyone. That is the reason I say "go for it".

Will it possibly "divide" members? sure it will to some. others (like myself) it will not matter.

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Baz, your idea probably makes more sense to you because you guys have clearer class systems on your side of the pond then we do?

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Hmmmm...that has nothing to do with this I think.Jesse let me tell you that(and I am dutch)there are just a handfull players that stick out here in Europe.Basil is one of them.Most players try to make a extra buck by gigging in the weekend and during vacations.Those are the players that I don't put in the "Pro"?? section.These are the people that try to make fun and give people a good time.These players like to learn new tricks.I am afraid that(if there comes a "Pro-section")these people will fall out of the boat so to speak.All the knowledge will stay in that Pro section and it will be hard for an amateur to come into that circle.And that would be something none of us want.

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I love it and enjoy the fact that I am able to make "that sound".

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Say Steel Playing is like "Ranch Handing" or "Cowboying".

The "Top Pros" are more like Rodeo Stars.

There are a vastly larger amount of Ranch Hands, than there are Rodeo Stars.

There are quite a few Rodeo Stars that cut their teeth as Ranch Hands. All the way from stopping bleeding from a barbwire cut a long way from a doctor, pulling a breach calf out of a cow, making a tractor work with baling wire, beading a tire with starting fluid, the places NOT to use Absorbine Jr, and TONS of knowledge.

There are Rodeo Stars that came straight out of high school athletics, got on a "rodeo team", and went to Number One. Not a single season as a "ranch hand". Sometimes their dad was a Top Rodeo Cowboy, or owned the Stock Company. Maybe they never had to deal with the "Cowboy Code"..

With the vast majority of steel players I see here, the ones that have imparted the most usable advice to me, after playing steadily for money for 28 or more years, are guys I never heard on the radio or saw on an album cover.

Advice, or "learning from" people, I do by listening, testing, measuring against my own experience, and then judging the results.

As far as "Nobody being here to learn from", if Paul F, Buddy, Lloyd by proxy, Mr Hughey, Bouten, Bobbe Seymour, Reece Anderson, and a dozen other top guys, god forbid, got killed in an avalanche, there would be "nobody to learn from"? nothing could be farther from the truth.

It's certainly a godsend to have them that are left, after losing Jeff, Winnie, Hal, Jimmie, here to share their knowledge.

It's also possible that they might suffer from some mortal imperfections. They might get mad, exhibit bad manners, express frustration, or just need to vent once in a while. My teacher and favorite #1 Player Bud Charleton has never posted here, nor do I think he even uses a computer.

There'e not a lot that we as a community can "do" or a way we can agree to "treat them" that will change their humanity.

I'll tell you, that even after playing nearly every week for money, and seven years of supporting myself soley by playing steel before I got tired of not having enough money, there are at least three players represented here on the Forum, that NOBODY outside the forum and the places they played ever heard of.

I could spend the rest of my life just learning from those three guys.

Actually there are times when the advice I get from guys that have only played a years worth of gigs, I find out later, when I try something they suggest is as valid as anything I've learned in my 28+ years and thousands of paid bush league gigs.

I think that it's no accident, that Mr Emmons as a prime example, can handle his own "battles", come back with his own quips, defenses, etc, take the time to answer any questions, no matter how uncomfortable, or obscure, and still be the one that everyone seems to have as Numero Uno.

Inbetween him and "us" there are all shades of greatness and humanity.

IMHO, b0b has done a great job of "policing" things when he deems is necessary, and I hope it continues, with constant backing up of the archives. Who knows what could be done with them in the future.

Maybe too, there are "Pros" that really don't feel they have anything to contribute but their playing.

Maybe their playing is a stronger suit than their personal communication skills.

So be it.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 04 July 2006 at 10:13 AM.]

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Maybe it would be more accurate to say it was very disappointing that he did not agree with those who wanted to dictate speech on the forum.

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But it is a moot point anyway, since b0b has considered it and made a decision.

I would not be against a 'pro's only' section. At least there would be one place that I wouldn't be able to post, thus circumventing a complaint about 'people like me,' you know, amateurs, people who haven't been on the forum long enough to know what's going on.

Sheesh... b0b, did you ever think about a pro's only forum?
I think I'll go back to studying flame bait to figure out a way to say something nice enough that somebody won't get bent over it.

There's nothing stopping a "pro" from setting up his own board where he could decide who the pros are filter those he wanted to talk with.

It would be disappointing to NOT hear from the pros here. It would be a loss to the steel guitar community.

It is unfortunate that there are a few posters on this board who seem to be unable to separate their opinions from themselves. These folks never learned the value of listening and seem to feel THEIR opinion is the only right one. They've also never learned to disagree without being disagreeable.

Perhaps it's a lack of people skills.

Sometimes it's better to say "I don't agree with that" and realize the individual holding a contrary opinion is not in some way mentally deficient. We all arrive here from different routes and have different levels of experiences and sometimes drastically different value systems.

At the end of it, I think we should treat everyone with respect whether we agree with them or not.

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It is unfortunate that there are a few posters on this board who seem to be unable to separate their opinions from themselves. These folks never learned the value of listening and seem to feel THEIR opinion is the only right one. They've also never learned to disagree without being disagreeable. -RS-

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Yup, and sadly more than a couple of them are "Pros". Posting examples shouldn't be necessary, though there are plenty in the archives. Otherwise it would be a perfect idea. The "Carl Dixon" Incident,more than one "Pete Drake", "Who Has Sho~Bud #2" or "Who had the most hits" threads are some prime examples.

Maybe their "Pro Status" could be revoked apon the appearance of a disagreement or an inability to communicate effectively..

A panel of bootlickers could hold votes on each "incident"..

Or not..

EJL

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what good is your opinion if you seperate it from yourself?

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One need not be a profesional hitman
or a medical doctor, to be able to
speak authoritivly about
how to drill someone with a TEC 9
and hit the right spot.

An informed person can speak authoritatively,
without being self-supporting from an endevour.

Carl Dixon is a case in point.
He never pretended to be a pro,
but we STILL miss his authoritative input...

Debating from opposing view points,
is one of the main things happening
in "a forum", per se.

But debating societies ALSO strictly observe
a code of discourse, and self-censor rancor,
as not being topical, or useful to answering
the questions of the day...

What we need here is not a Pro's only forum,
but more people being civil, kind and accepting,
of those with differing points of view,
even as we cogently, yet nicely, rebut their arguments.

Et tu Brutus?

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 July 2006 at 10:39 AM.]

The articles can include, for example interviews and/or pre-submitted questions from "readers." Or, they could be written entirely without any questions. The articles could include, for example photos, diagrams etc. as well.

There could be one or more "editors" picked by b0b, who would be similar in standing to the current forum moderators, but who would be responsible for soliciting and publishing the articles.

The overall intent would be to provide information from certain players (famous or not) and/or information on certain topics in which many forumites have an interest.

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Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator
My Blog