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THE C6th TUNING :( (Page 1)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Bar Chatter Archive
THE C6th TUNING :( (Page 1)
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| This topic is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: THE C6th TUNING :( |
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Bob Anderson Member Posts: 119 |
posted 18 August 2000 10:42 PM
I'm going to take a lot of heat for this, but the C6th tuning is DEAD! It belongs with concertinas, ukeleles and penny whistles. Now if these instruments are your bag, then by all means stick with the C6th tuning. I am not picking on the talent of the Masters who play this tuning...I'm saying if people walk out on you for using the C6th ...don't blame them for not being music lovers. Curly Chalker loved the C6, but he had to eat. And if the GREAT JERRY BYRD was just starting out today, He'd be a Novelty Act. |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 18 August 2000 11:07 PM
Gentlemen, Start your Bunsen Burners. |
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KENNY KRUPNICK Member Posts: 1729 |
posted 18 August 2000 11:32 PM
I disagree, there is alot of nice stuff on the C6th tuning. I just love that big fat heavy chord sound.One thing to keep in mind is,the C6th was around way before the E9th was. Check out Jeff Newmans C6th Workshop video,it'll open some new doors for you. |
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Bob Anderson Member Posts: 119 |
posted 18 August 2000 11:43 PM
Yes Kenny, and the Harpsichord was around before the piano.  |
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Cal Sharp Member Posts: 731 |
posted 19 August 2000 12:33 AM
Yeah, Bob, I know whatcha mean. I can't remember how many gigs I've lost because some drunk back in the pool room bitched to the club owner and then walked out on his tab when he heard me play something on the C6th. C# |
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Billy Jones Member Posts: 417 |
posted 19 August 2000 01:09 AM
What in the H--- do you eat for breakfast in the morning??? This is garbage. It doesn't matter what tuning you use, how many strings you play on or whether you use pedals or not. A steel guitar is a steel guitar, very capable of playing just about any kind of material. We're here to promote the steel and help other forumites in their endeavors. I also don't believe any drunk can sit down and tell what your tuning is or leave a club because of it unless he's another player with your attitude. Good heavens, give me a break, You only get out of the instrument what you put into it. Sorry for the outburst bOb. ... Billy |
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George Mc Lellan Member Posts: 1282 |
posted 19 August 2000 02:11 AM
Bob, if you plan to be to the Minnesota Steel Guitar Assc Showcase in Forest Lake Oct 21st, I think you'll change your mind about the C6th tuning. I don't play it very well, but there are pickers, (I won't name them) that will be there that do. I aggree with Billy's statement 100%. I've heard pickers get C6th sound out of the E9th tuning and vis/versa. IMHO if someone walked out because of the steel sound coming thru the music, it wasn't the tuning...it was the song. ------------------ |
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Johan Jansen Member Posts: 2207 |
posted 19 August 2000 02:25 AM
This is to much crap to spoil more words than one sentence on it,JJ. ------------------ |
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Peggy Green Member Posts: 240 |
posted 19 August 2000 03:13 AM
Bob, You've been eating too much lutefisk! C6 is the deep well. Never runs dry. |
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bill ramsey Member Posts: 249 |
posted 19 August 2000 03:29 AM
c6 dead. not so friend. why are there lots of c6th players in hall of fame? ray scearce[rest his soul] was one of the best. he could play more country on c6th than most could play on e9. he was inducted into the michigan hall of fame for musicians. good he was and im proud to say he was my friend and i played music with him for many years. bill ramsey |
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Rick Schmidt Member Posts: 1596 |
posted 19 August 2000 03:38 AM
Right now it's 3:30AM here in So. Cal....I just got home from a gig after playing at least 50% on the bottom neck for at least 5 hours to a crowd filled with appreciative young women in skin tight Wranglers. Even if they were(ugh) line dancing, nobody was complaining when I got to occationally take it "outside" the A&B pedal drone. I doubt if Bob will believe me, but who cares.  |
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Bob Anderson Member Posts: 119 |
posted 19 August 2000 03:43 AM
I never said I hated the C6th. I am ASLEEP AT THE WHEELS #1 Fan. I have every thing by Ron Ely and Cindy Cashdollar. I love the steel guitar...But the C6th is as dead as an organ in a supper club. It's time has come and gone with the Guy Lombardo's...it's no longer the sweetest music this side of heaven...Well maybe if your 60's plus. AND YOU ASK WHY THERE ARE NO YOUNG PEOPLE TAKING UP STEEL GUITAR. Yes the C6th is right up there with the lutefisk feed. How many young ones have you seen come to one of those? |
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bill ramsey Member Posts: 249 |
posted 19 August 2000 03:50 AM
60's plus? watch it kid. we have forgot more than you young ones will ever know. what took us years the young ones think they can do right away.just remember you are learning from the older ones. been there, done that and still doing. bill ramsey ------------------ |
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Tom Ward Member Posts: 241 |
posted 19 August 2000 05:18 AM
What's next....E9th????? |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 19 August 2000 05:28 AM
Well, you really don't hear much of it (C6th) on the radio! And when most people play C6th, it has a Jazz or Swing "character" to it. Pete Drake's playing was different, but you don't hear anybody doing that kind of stuff today. |
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Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
posted 19 August 2000 06:13 AM
Since you're AATW's "#1 fan," I'm sure JOHN Ely would take your opinions with the appropriate amount of salt. As do I. ------------------ |
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John Steele Member Posts: 2469 |
posted 19 August 2000 06:31 AM
quote: OK, let's see if I've got this straight.... Donny Hinson is telling us that music is made valid by radio airplay ?!? Sorry, Donny, but I had to cough on that one, especially coming from you ! heehee -John |
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Mike Vasquez Member Posts: 138 |
posted 19 August 2000 07:21 AM
Ladies and gents- have you ever had people coming up to you at a gig saying,"Man that C6th stinks! Stick to E9th." Most likely not. The general public doesn't know the difference in tunings. They just know if it sounds good. If you're going to play it, play it well. |
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Joe Miraglia Member Posts: 771 |
posted 19 August 2000 07:58 AM
I'm a bad boy! I recently set up the bottom neck from C6 to an A6/E6 tuning, a hybrid Alvino Rey/Basil Henriques combination. I have added some of my own changes--it sure gives me a full sixth chord along with as much jazz and blues I can play (which isn't a lot!) and I can play "For Pete's Sake" with ease! C6/A6(C#/Bb--with the eight ball in the side pocket) the steel guitar lives on for all who like to listen and play. Joe |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 19 August 2000 09:03 AM
Wheweeeeeeeeeeee Put that in your smipe and poke it! carl |
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Cal Sharp Member Posts: 731 |
posted 19 August 2000 09:23 AM
"Since you're AATW's "#1 fan," I'm sure JOHN Ely would take your opinions with the appropriate amount of salt. As do I." Right, I didn't think Tarzan was a steel player. C# |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 19 August 2000 09:31 AM
I think that the style that most people play on the C6th is pretty out-of-date. I'm not saying that's bad - I love traditional sounds - I'm just saying that it's not something you hear a lot of these days. But you can do a lot of other things on the C6th. Peggy Green described it (above) as "the deep well". Listen to her sometime. You often can't tell which tuning she's on until she gives it away with a few notes that are lower than the E9th can play. Her C6th Peda-Bro is absolutely sublime on her new CD. It's pretty hard to tell which neck Paul Franklin is playing sometimes, too. He'll often do the swing stuff on the E9th. C6th seems to be his neck of choice for rock. It's hard to play rock on a D-10 without the low notes of the C6th. |
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Steve England Member Posts: 542 |
posted 19 August 2000 09:32 AM
Biggest bunch of hogwash I've read on this forum in ages. I guess Mr Anderson wanted to get himself noticed. It worked......"Ron Ely" was a good Tarzan though [This message was edited by Steve England on 19 August 2000 at 09:34 AM.] [This message was edited by Steve England on 19 August 2000 at 09:38 AM.] |
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Bill Cunningham Member Posts: 381 |
posted 19 August 2000 09:53 AM
Quote: ----------------------------- have you ever had people coming up to you at a gig saying,"Man that C6th stinks! Stick to E9th." ----------------------------- Actually, Vern Kendrick is the only one that ever told ME that! ------------------ |
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rayman unregistered Posts: 381 |
posted 19 August 2000 10:17 AM
I've never heard such nonsense. I play in clubs every weekend. Just opened in front of 2000 people for David Lee Murphy. C6th is the most tasteful steel I play. I play it every weekend. It's definitely more difficult in my opinion because of the need to use bar slides to emulate pedal sounds. It is much better sounding on blues tunes than E9th. Most steelers just don't take the time to learn it, or don't have the ability. Your statement makes no sense to me. |
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Gary Walker Member Posts: 1446 |
posted 19 August 2000 10:21 AM
Here we go again. C6th dead? Only to the inept. Maybe the 6th playing of the Hank Williams era. True, Jerry Byrd would have a hard time today making it in the country field. Noel Boggs and Leon McAuliff and some of those pioneers wouldn't get out of the chute, but then again, Hank Williams, Hank Snow, Lefty Frezzel(? spelling) wouldn't get a play, but some many able players have raised the level of the C6th to a higher plain that sophistication has pushed the art higher. To say the C6th is dead a matter of opinion and is comparable to saying the fans of E9th would feel more comfortable in a smoke filled bar with the cock roaches than in the light of day. If you don't care for the C6th, you don't understand it, can't play it and are limited in your knowledge of music and the instrument in general and that's just an opinion. Right 6th players? Thanks, Gary |
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Bill Hatcher Member Posts: 2263 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:02 AM
If the C6 neck is dead, then the E9 neck has one foot in the grave. Not very encouraging to see a player throw out one half of his instruments' potential. AS far as the other statements he made: The concertina/bandoneon--obviously this guy has never heard the spectacular music of Astor Piazolla. Armed with the "lowly" concertina/bandonean he blows the doors off of any steel guitar player I ever heard as far as depth of musical emotion,complexity of rhythm and technique go. It is a concert instrument played internationally. The Penny Whistle--Used to do concerts with Henry Mancini. He would pop that thing out of his pocket and play along with the symphony orchestra that was sitting behind him. I am trying my best to conjure up a memory of the last time I saw a solo steel guitarist playing ONLY on the E9 neck backed up by a symphony. The uke----Played the Broadway show "Chicago" recently. Very nice uke part in that show. Of course there was no steel guitar part since 99% of all the conductors, composers, promotors, grandmothers etc. who are in charge of what gets written and recorded are of the opinion that the steel guitar is ONLY used in Country music and the E9 neck is the only worthwhile neck to be used. If the steel guitar gets any more "pidgeon holed" it's going to be embarrassing. If steel players keep building pidgeon cages then they deserve it! The beginning of this thread is a good example of statements coming from the mindset of a steel guitarist rather than from a musician.
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Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:13 AM
Gentlemen, consider your sources and the level at which the negative comments are coming from. Undoubtedly, the players that are not oriented and able to comprehend the level of artistry the C6 tuning requires, will tell you that E9th is the only way to fly. I play both tunings and I find it necessary to use both tunings because the voicings are so varied and/or different from each other. I personally think the the C6 tuning is a more "emotional" tuning than the E9th, although, it is not commercially accepted as much as the E9th. Of the 2 tunings, I find the C6 to be more complex and harder to learn. ------------------ |
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Bob Hempker Member Posts: 742 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:25 AM
Right on Kenny!! How many people have you known that will put something down if they don't understand it? I've had singers tell me that Curley Chalker couldn't play. How many mediocre commercial "pickers," I won't honor them by calling them musicians, have we heard down through the years put down jazz, or anything that had more than 3 chords to it? That's because they didn't understand it and couldn't play it. ------------------ |
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Jerry Hayes Member Posts: 3306 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:27 AM
Kenny, Kenny, Kenny! I love you like a brother but as far as the C6th being more emotional than the E9th? That's a big bunch of CRAP to the highest degree. I've never heard anything emotional on the C6th by anyone. There's a lot of good swingin' stuff and some nice ballad work but when it comes to emotion just listen to John Hughey's work on "Lost in the Feeling", "Look at Us", or Buddy's stuff on "Another Bridge to Burn". That's emotion! I've never heard anything on C6th that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up but I've heard some great E9th things that did! Maybe I'll just have to agree with Bob, C6th is dead, but to go back a year or so, C6th Sucks!!!!!!!! But then what do I know, I play E9/B6. ------------------ [This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 19 August 2000 at 11:29 AM.] |
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Bob Anderson Member Posts: 119 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:34 AM
Thank you, Bill Hatcher, for your wonderful description of a novelty act. Also, I'm not a kid. I'm 56 years old and started on a C6th. It's dead. Why don't you get a double frame steel guitar with a pad, like Lloyd Green. It's much easier to rest your forearms on than a bunch of unused strings. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick Member Posts: 1234 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:49 AM
You GO! Kenny. Jerry can you tell me that Johnny Davis doesn't play with feel? No it's not a country feel (soul), but soul is soul. Excuse me, for sounding off, but I am getting tired of this thread. |
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Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 19 August 2000 12:22 PM
This for Jerry's (my soul brother) benefit. As you so elequently put it, C6 SUCKS!!! Do you recall 2 or 3 years ago I was doing a gig at a local bar/restaurant and you and Dottie came in and ate and was listening to the band. One of the songs we did was together again. The singer had just sang the first line and I wast laying down an appropiate back up lick and broke the 5th string on the E9 neck which made it impossible to play. Without hesitation, I went to the C6 neck and continued to play and after it was over, you and I were talking and I mentioned breaking the string and your comment was, "I couldn't tell the Difference." Don't take what I said out of context about the difference between the 2 tunings. I agree that some very emotional music has been played and will be played on the E9th. My comment was that, C6 is more emotional that the E9th. ------------------ [This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 19 August 2000 at 12:24 PM.] |
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Don McClellan Member Posts: 882 |
posted 19 August 2000 01:02 PM
Never heard anything emotional played on C6th?!?!?!? WOW! At first I thought, what an insult to Byrd, Emmons, Chalker etc. Then I thought, it's really more of an insult to yourself. Sittin' on a stool in a honky tonk and cryin' in your beer cause you saw Sharleen in her boyfriend's new pick-up truck is not the only kind of emotion people want out of music. I think the C neck can be more emotional than the E neck. I'm as tired of the E neck as Mr. Anderson is of the C neck. Although, when the time is right, the E9th is special and alot of people do love it. |
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Mike Perlowin Member Posts: 6731 |
posted 19 August 2000 01:04 PM
I just have two words to say: CURLY CHALKER |
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Dennis Boyd Member Posts: 156 |
posted 19 August 2000 01:14 PM
Hi Everybody, All tunings used on a steel guitar are valid for one reason or another. Since we have to arrange our notes to lay along the straight line of the bar, different sounds will be had by different tunings. Whether it be C6, E9 or some form of diatonic, each tuning has its own capabilities that can't be done totally on another tuning. What tuning a steel guitarist chooses to play on should be decided for the musical content and capabilities of that tuning. There is no one tuning that can do it all, so don't limit yourself unless that is the path you want to take. Dennis |
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chris ivey Member Posts: 1105 |
posted 19 August 2000 01:14 PM
bob, W R O N G |
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Rick Schmidt Member Posts: 1596 |
posted 19 August 2000 02:07 PM
Wow.....tell me guys, is this the kind of drivel that goes on in the halls at the conventions? If so, I'm almost glad I've never gotten to go to one. (note.... I said "Almost" ) Me thinks we're exploring our middle aged caucasion roots a little too deeply here. You know those one string Chinese violins sound good and "soulful" to my ears when played by a master. Good music is good music if you listen with your heart and not your ego. |
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basilh Member Posts: 3417 |
posted 19 August 2000 02:19 PM
Hi, First of all I'd like to thank Joe for separating Alvino Rey and myself by a quote: What on earth is all the fuss about. I must admit that most of the current music is melodically either 7th or sus4 based, as opposed to the 40's-70's era which was more sixth or maj 6/9 based. This is only part of the cyclic change in popular musical taste probably determined by the "music moguls" When you have top international acts like "Boyzone", "The Corrs" etc. using steel in the backing music (Admittedly VERY much back in the mix) you can notice the trend reverting to the more melodic type of music. C6 dead, no, only the present use of it in it's cliché'd form, much the same as the overplayed E9th changes that brand the steel as "Country" but then again what's wrong with the cliché's ? they ARE an integral part of that particular musical genré, Together Again etc. = E9th, MOST Western Swing = C6th, this applies to the main but not to the totality of steel guitar use. After all, steel guitar HAS been influential in a tremendous amount of hit records by providing a recognizable "Hook" and sound, or as Richard carpenter so eloquently put it ,"The Chill Factor". Until more of us become "Composers" instead of copyists, the debate about the steel guitar's place in music will rage on. quote: No Gig tonight so plenty of time to practise ! ------------------
quote: http://homepage.tinet.ie/~basilh/ [This message was edited by basilh on 19 August 2000 at 02:22 PM.] |
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Paul Cockburn New Member Posts: 4 |
posted 19 August 2000 03:41 PM
what a stupid thread |
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