As I see it, there are now two types of "Classic Country Music". The first was born in the '20s and '30s, and stayed pretty much unchanged through the '40s. Artists like the Carter Family, Jimmie Rodgers, The Carlisle Bros., Hank Williams, and Woody Guthrie would fall into this category. I suppose we could call it "roots music". This was the "Golden Age" of Country music, though it really wasn't even called Country for the most part. Some called it "Hillbilly", some called it "Mountain Music", and some just plain Folk, or Western. But this is where it was born...the music we now call "country".

The second type of "Classic Country" is generally of '50s and '60s vintage. It contains mostly electric instruments, and drums (but subdued sounds, by today's standards). Instrumentation is still simple, and the now ubiquitous synthesizer is still years away. Through the decades of the '70s, '80s, and '90s, this has held pretty fast. In the '80's, for instance, we called the '50s and '60s music "classic". And now, over 20 years later, that hasn't changed. The "classic stuff" hasn't moved with the times. Why? I would guess that it became more "polished" during this period, without being entirely "transformed", as it did in the '70s, and later decades.

Will the definition of "Classic Country" ever change? I don't think so. Some may argue that 40 years from now, when most of us are gone, that artists like Alabama, Garth, Shania, and Brooks and Dunn might become the "Classic Country" stars.

But...

"Nobody Answers, When I Call Her Name"

"Look At Us"

"He Stopped Loving Her Today"

Two Vince Gill songs? Is he "Traditional"?

"Well I turned on my tv set,
To see if it was as cheesy as I forget
Maybe country videos my soul to save
But them new wave Nashvilles on the juke
Turned my gut fixin' to puke
I bet Hank Williams is spinnin' in his grave

This western glamour's full of Philistines
Churnin' out false prophets
Slave to the machine
But I'm headin' for the lowlands
You won't miss me when I'm gone
'Cause I'm startin' to hate country
But I still love cowboy songs

Well Marty Robbins heard the masters call
With spade Cooley behind the wall
I could listen to swing and boogie
all damn week
But cowboy songs take the back seat
When they play that "achy breaky" geek
Makes me proud as hell that I'm a freak"

-then the band announces the list of c&w artists they enjoy hearing( on 78rpm ):

"Gene Autry, Ernest Tubb, Homer & Jethro, Bob Wills, Milton Brown, Jimmy Bryant, Curtis Gordon, Hank Penny, Pee Wee King, Speedy West, Lefty Frizell, Jimmy Rodgers, Roy Acuff, Bobby Sisco, Bill Boyd, Bill Monroe, Merle Travis, Shelton Brothers, Johnny Cash, Hank Harral, Cliff Bruner, Floyd Tillman, Delmore Brothers, Buck Owens, Webb Pierce, Faron Young, Ray Price, Tammy Wynette, Patsy Cline, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Loretta Lynn, sons Of The Pioneers, Kitty Wells, George Jones, Minnie Pearl, Light Crust Doughboys"

I might have left out few of the names out by accident, but I guess that pretty well sums it up
The song itself is an uptempo with chorus a'la "Smoke Smoke Smoke" and a long upright slap bass solo

..when I think of 50's country, I think of Patsy Cline singing Willie's "Crazy" with a lot of strings and schmaltzy instrumentation..it doesn't sound "country" to my ears..or I think of hybrid country/R&B tunes like "I Can't Stop Loving You", or "Behind Closed Doors", neither one of which has traditional "country" instrumentation to my ears...and then for 60's stuff there were also ventures into "Harper Valley PTA", which does have country instrumentation but to my ears sounds like the 60's version of Shania..

..I hold to my opinion that there is no "traditional" country music, just continuous mutations of a very broadly defined genre..Hank and the Carters etal didn't invent any new sound, there were folk tunes and mountain tunes and work songs and spirituals and all sorts of other sources that found there way into Hank's and the Carter's sounds...

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Glenn, I'm not sure that anyone knows for sure.....from all that's been posted about it, it seems to depend upon which "decade" you were first exposed! www.genejones.com P.S. I didn't like Ray Price with orchestra and strings (apparently no one else did either).

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..a couple days ago you seemed to think it was an elusive and abstract term too...and you didn't like schmaltzy orchestration any more than I do...

[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 11 January 2002 at 05:49 PM.]

I embrace and play all music, but I definately have listening preferences within genre. I currently work in a contemporary country music venue and I was not defending the "status quo", but I still don't like the orchestration on that Ray Price Album mentioned ....that's a personal preference not a definition. I didn't like Hank Williams Sr. either, but that's also a personal preference. www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 12 January 2002 at 07:24 AM.]

-John

Oboy... I'm in for it now...

..and I can only take small doses of Hank Sr. myself..or Woody Guthrie, or Bill Monroe..

1)Traditional Country - pre 1960 -Everything called country at that time except Evis, Buddy Holly and a few others.

2)Country Rock - 1960 to 1980 Main differences: hopped up beat, efects and intruments.

3)Modern Country - post 1980 Which is not country music at all, by any stretch of the imagination. It is simply pop-rock. AKA Crap.

b0b said it best though.

sgm

[This message was edited by Steve Miller on 13 January 2002 at 04:14 PM.]

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No pain, No gain. My personal faves include, cryin, lovin, leavin, truckin, cheatin, and , oh yeah, Drinkin.

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like the music that hippie long-hair drunken drug-addict Gram Parsons played...

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Ahhhh-take away the long hair and you could easily be talking about Hank Sr, at least in terms of his tendency for substance abuse.

Actually, Parsons was pretty stone country-at least according to Chris Hillman, who oddly enough was regarded as the most country of the two, probably because of his skill on a mandolin. I can look up the actual quote, it's in a book I have here-but it's Hillman taking exception to Parsons reputation as the father of country rock (this bothered Hillman no end.) and he says something to the order of Parsons not having any rock in him at all-He was stone Country through and through.

I imagine there's no answer to this-at least not musically. There are those that would say anything beyond a I IV V progression is not classic country, but that would leave out the aforementioned Hank Sr.

It's a generational thing. The bands my niece listens to now that call themselves Rock bands are awful. Got one good song that got 'em signed and then they're gone. Bands I used to HATE in High School are better than what's on the radio now, and they all had longer careers. She thinks Destiny's Child is better than the Supremes. Ah well-she's wrong, but you can't tell her that.

I'm sure that there's the same thing at work here. Those that grew up on Hank Sr, ET, Conway, Loretta, etc call that country. I grew up on Gram Parsons, The Byrds, NRPS, Commander Cody, Jerry Jeff Walker, Michael Murphy, and Pure Prairie League. To me they're just as country as the rest of them. Trust me, one day Garth WILL be considered classic country by a large section of the public-probably because at least he used steel and fiddles.

John

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

[This message was edited by JB Arnold on 21 January 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

Of course not only people from the country like country music, but I think that would help to label it as traditional.

Then again, on the other hand...maybe not!