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 Player won't change a bad chord?
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| Author | Topic: Player won't change a bad chord? |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 07 January 2005 03:38 AM
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I had a guy, namless, here who wanted the words for "When Your Smiling". A classsic tune for any American, I did a look up on the net, found it, but my lyric memory was fine on this one. ( for a change) He had no clue Louis Armstrong had done the song.... Well I also started playing it with him on guitar, and me on steel, 1st ; I III IV IIm, then 2nd ; IIm IIm7 V7 I I was right it went IIm IIm IIm7, and when I sang it it really Well this guy INSISTED it was II dom 7, and instisted we play it that way, We finally ended up in a stare off... and I changed the song, But this was just a meet and greet to see if Anybody have this expirence before. How would you deal with this situation? [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 January 2005 at 03:53 AM.] [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 January 2005 at 09:48 AM.] |
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Craig A Davidson Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA |
posted 07 January 2005 04:08 AM
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David, I have come across it and I get the attitude that they have been doing it that way for years and years and they aren't changing now. Another good one is "I'll learn it but I am old you know and it will take me sometime to get it." Six months later they are still hitting the wrong chords. |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 07 January 2005 06:28 AM
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* [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 19 January 2005 at 04:46 AM.] |
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Jim Harper Member From: Comanche, Oklahoma, USA |
posted 07 January 2005 06:38 AM
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Another song that our band play,s that is wrong is Waltz you save for me.In the key of C when it goes to F and then E they just come back to F i have alway,s played it to go thru A-D-G and back to C chord. I seen a tab Ricky Davis had but failed to print it off for the band.==Jim Harper |
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Jerry Hayes Member From: Virginia Beach, Va. |
posted 07 January 2005 06:46 AM
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I and fellow Forumite Kenny Dail have both played for a local band leader who plays lead guitar and isn't the best chord person in the world. He insists on learning his own songs at home and when at the gig you find chords missing or changed. What he'll do is if he can't find the right chord he'll change to melody to suit another chord he knows. It gets pretty frustrating but he's a steel lover and lets you play all you want so we just put up with it, plus the guy plays a damn good Jimmy Capps style of the old Louvin Brothers era.....JH ------------------ |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 10 January 2005 02:56 AM
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In this case he didn't even have the words, I found them for him. And yet he was DAMN sure he had the chords right, and the mid file and my memory was toitally wrong. In the irish group we often would have 3 way discussions I would sometimes bow to the others because on old irtish tunes theory isn't always the way it was done. And this chucking of proper theory was often what made the tunes interesting.
In jazz you can, with proper theory, write in MORE changes, This guy had just heard a whole raft of my recordings, performances, songs and compositions in 6-7 styles,
I always go with the cringe factor, [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 January 2005 at 04:25 AM.] |
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CrowBear Schmitt Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France |
posted 10 January 2005 05:40 AM
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throw him out or dial 1234 for the Musik Police they'll know how to handle that smart a$$ |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 10 January 2005 07:39 AM
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I would handle it by saying, "That's not the way I know it. You must have learned from another version." I'd continue, "this is why a get together like this is benificial, there are so many different versions of some songs, we have to be sure we're playing the same one". I'd then provide a recording of the one I know and say, "This is the way I'm used to hearing it. Do you have a recording of your version?". He's probably just played it wrong for so long it sounds right to him, but who knows, you might learn there is another valid version. If this kind of tactful negoiation can not be done, forget this collabration. |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 10 January 2005 08:39 AM
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Joey this last line fits. A tactfull presenetation was met with icy stares. He only had worked it out without words, nor without another version, only from memories. A logical sounding midi file and a chart were not enough. |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 10 January 2005 09:09 AM
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If I were going to "simplify" the progression, I think this would be perfectly acceptable...
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 10 January 2005 09:55 AM
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Donny, I am not sure which key your in, seems to be F, but that's the section after the one I had an issue with. He was doing it in G, though the midi file was in Bb I was going to post in simplifications, But sometimes, SOMETIMES, it just ain't gonna cut the mustard. [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 January 2005 at 09:56 AM.] |
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Mike Perlowin Member From: Los Angeles CA |
posted 10 January 2005 11:07 AM
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I once did a gig with a guy who didn't know how to make a Bb chord, so he played a B7 instead. When he called to ask me to do another I told him I was not interested. |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 10 January 2005 12:41 PM
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"What's a half step between friends?" - Vince Gill
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Pete Burak Member From: Portland, OR USA |
posted 10 January 2005 12:55 PM
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Actually, You're both right! The first 2 verses the two chord is a minor, and in the last verse the two is a dom 7 (the C7 in Donny's example). This is why the song seems to get happier at the end.  I've ran into a fair amount of these over the years, and typically someone is "Blown A-way" by the others thinking the two chord a minor and not a Dom7th, or vice versa... |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 10 January 2005 02:41 PM
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Oh boy! Actually, in my short example above (which is in Bb), you could use an Fm7 right in front of the Bb7, and then use a Gm7 right in front of the C7. (Sort of "transition chords".) |
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Mike Headrick Member From: Jasper, TN, USA |
posted 10 January 2005 03:28 PM
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David, You asked if any of us had experienced such a thing before. I had a similar experience once in the studio. I was engineering a session for a gospel group doing "Poor Wayfaring Stranger" and their only guitar player was playing chords which didn't fit the melody at all. and paint was peeling, glass was cracking, and it took 6 months to get the hair to lay down on the back of my neck again. I went out and very tactfully showed him how the chords should go in the song, and he said "That sounds wrong to me". I said "..and what you're playing sounds right"? He said "Well, yes it does". I then shrugged and said "Then it must be", and turned and went back into the control room. I wasn't going to have a showdown trying to get him to make an improvement in his own recording which I would never hear again, but he would have to live with for the rest of his life. |
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John McGann Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA |
posted 10 January 2005 04:27 PM
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This is why they invented leeches and cauteriziation... |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 11 January 2005 06:52 AM
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Thanks to Howard I saw this chord and lyric site. This much hipper than I thought, and though the phrasing on this baby is more pianist than guitar, the cat was still quite wrong. when you're smiling - Bb ---------------------------------------------------- Verse Refrain Well I can't even think about steeling this one right now. [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 January 2005 at 10:32 AM.] [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 January 2005 at 11:59 AM.] |
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Jon Jaffe Member From: Austin, Texas |
posted 11 January 2005 07:58 AM
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I make a point never to fight over chords. When it comes to the disputed phrase, I play a partial and let the bass take the heat; smile and have another drink of Bourbon. |
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Bob Hoffnar Member From: Brooklyn, NY |
posted 11 January 2005 09:14 AM
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Jon, I'm with you on that one ! Another trick I've learned is to play a partial or moving tone that makes the wrong chord sound better. I had that problem at a session just the other night. I was getting paid pretty good and the room was full of famous people so I kept my mouth shut. ------------------ |
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Todd Weger Member From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA |
posted 12 January 2005 06:43 AM
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I don't know if this chart is accurate, but here's a link to a version of the song which also has a printable chart. According to this, it does go to a C7 (dom 7). Anywat, FWIW... TJW |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 12 January 2005 11:55 AM
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Yes Todd LATER it does, but the issue was with bars 1-4 of line two.. which are as I thought. 1st vocal line ends Cm then Cm and Cm7 It may not be the hippest chart, but it sounds right. This wasn't a session the clock wasn't running and it was dropped, but it was a really un-needed bit of tension, because it was so CLEARLY wrong. [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 January 2005 at 11:58 AM.] |
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Jim Lutz Member From: Austin, Texas |
posted 12 January 2005 12:12 PM
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...well, I've always found that I'm usually within an inch of a good note at any given time...  |
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Ron Sodos Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA |
posted 13 January 2005 04:05 PM
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I have a great story for you guys. in 1980 when I was playing for about 3 years I moved from Tucson to Albuquerque for a gig in a band that worked very steady and for good money. Musically they were the worst of the worst. All the chords, timing and harmonies were wrong. The funny thing we were the most popular band around for 10 years. When we worked in Santa Fe at a large saloon that was the main club for miles the place was packed and they were on line outside all night. The other bands around were so much better it was amazing. The reason was the guy in front "Mike", was a pretty ok singer regarding his big voice and he was one of the best front men i ever knew regarding his raport with the audience, jokes etc. But musically all I can say is "whew". Go Figger!..........  [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 13 January 2005 at 04:06 PM.] |
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David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand |
posted 14 January 2005 04:35 AM
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The difference between and musican singer and an entertainer. Some people are out for the entertainment, and others are there for the music. Seems most just wanna dance and be entertained. I bet that band had a really classic song list, executed poorly, but functionally to back the |
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