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 Cream reunion concert on PBS (Page 1)
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Andy Volk Member From: Boston, MA |
posted 02 December 2005 06:04 AM
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I was really looking forward to this one but wound up feeling underwhelmed. The players were truly committed - especially Clapton - yet every song was kind of the same long, jam vamp. Still, these guys wrote the book for thousands of other bands who followed and you have to respect their musicianship and go-for-it attitude when many others of their age and stature are resting on their lauerls (or severely damaged by their 60s experience ..i.e. Peter Green). I would have liked to have heard how they've grown as musicians over 40 years instead of a re-hash of their greatest hits. |
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Mike Brown Member From: Meridian, Mississippi USA |
posted 02 December 2005 06:37 AM
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Haven't had a chance to see that but friends tell me that it is pretty good. Clapton really doesn't need an update, but its been awhile since I've heard anything from Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. I'll try to catch it. |
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Carter York Member From: Austin, TX [Windsor Park] |
posted 02 December 2005 06:41 AM
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I didn't see the PBS special, but I have copies of the MSG shows from a month or so ago, and although they still 'jam', I found them to be somewhat uninspired as well. Part of what I like about listening to Cream was how the albums sound like they're about to explode and overdrive the recording technology of the time. That's one of my beef's with modern recording and sound reinforcement. It's so pure and exact, it leaves nothing to be discovered. I can remember getting tape copies of concerts, albums or whatever, and you had to strain and work to hear certain things. The thrill is gone as far as listening to modern music. No more blurry guitar slurs (was that Eric or Jack!?!?) to ponder, no more rewinding and saying 'what just happened!?' It's all right there now. |
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Dave Van Allen Member From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth |
posted 02 December 2005 07:42 AM
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I tuned in late... "Pressed Rat & Warthog" was just plain depressing... "Crossroads" - sounded like a really good babyboomer barband playing "Crossroads" I went to bed... How much a ticket did those guys get? |
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Jeremy Steele Member From: Princeton, NJ USA |
posted 02 December 2005 07:58 AM
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Saw 'em when they played the Garden recently...you have never seen so many 50ish white guys in one place in your life...and the ubiquitous pot smoke gave the entire arena a contact high. |
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Jon Light Member From: Brooklyn, NY |
posted 02 December 2005 08:09 AM
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I was sitting in my car near MSG one of the concert nights, early for a rehearsal at the 30th St. music building and I watched the pedestrian traffic. As per Jeremy's post, I could have picked out Cream ticket holders with 99% accuracy. Cracked me up. I was planning on watching the PBS show but the 10 seconds of clips they showed in the promos all week looked so sedate, polished and unexciting---like a highly professional session player's tribute band---that I just plain forgot to tune in. |
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Darryl Hattenhauer Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA |
posted 02 December 2005 08:36 AM
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Reminded me of the time i got reacquainted with an old girlfriend after 30 years. Like playing a guitar made out of licorice. ------------------ |
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Kenny Burford Member From: Lexington, Missouri USA |
posted 02 December 2005 10:28 AM
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I have always been a Clapton fan and "White Room," was and still is one of the few R&R songs that I care to listen to and I attempted to watch Cream’s special on PBS, but just could not make it past the first song. The one thing I am continually reminded of when I watch R&R acts from the past, is my mind has moved on to different music and the R&R music I listened to as a teenager is better left as just a fond memory. [This message was edited by Kenny Burford on 02 December 2005 at 10:29 AM.] [This message was edited by Kenny Burford on 02 December 2005 at 10:29 AM.] |
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Jim Peters Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
posted 02 December 2005 11:01 AM
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I liked "We're going wrong", it sure is an odd one! I thought they all played really well, but they did lack inspiration. Crossroads era Clapton still seems his best stuff, he was truly inspired and on the edge, though he does not agree. JP |
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Jim Hankins Member From: Yuba City, California, USA |
posted 02 December 2005 11:22 AM
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I saw some of the PBS and thought it was worth watching. At that age I would expect them to be a little sedated. They tried to convey the spirit of the original chemistry,ie; extended single note "noodling" by Clapton and Bruce. Just watching Baker was intresting the way he held the extended jams togeather and his energy. |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 02 December 2005 11:24 AM
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We sure have a lot of diversity here on b0b's Forum. I never thought I would see Forum members complain that players are stuck in 1968. |
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David Mason Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA |
posted 02 December 2005 11:24 AM
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Clapton has said that he plays his best when he's got somebody to push him, and Cream in their heyday bears this out. I thought he and Duane Allman hit a peak on "Layla and other assorted love songs" that's rare indeed. Clapton has even hired Phil Collins, Albert Lee, and Doyle Bramhall at various times to play in his backing band, and I don't think those guys go for union scale. There were a couple of moments in the concert where Clapton went beyond his comfort zone and surprised his own self - "Sleepy Time Time" and "Spoonful" - but I though that the material sounded really dated. Last Saturday our PBS station in Maryland showed the tape of the Grateful Dead closing Winterland in 1978, and the difference between a "jam band" who had been playing together continuously for 13 years and one where the members had been off in their own cubbyholes for 35 years was painfully obvious. |
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Bill Hatcher Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA |
posted 02 December 2005 12:40 PM
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Watched some of it. I got the feeling that it was more of an event for the nostalgics more so than some sort of heavy musical thing. It was nice to see a group from the 60s back together with their original line up. Could you look at their individual lives since that time and really expect some magical thing to happen when they played together again?? I am not sure they actually sounded any better or any worse than they did in the 60s. Again, it was good to see a group play their material again in a concert setting for only a few days----that's quite enough. |
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Rick Collins Member From: Claremont , CA USA |
posted 02 December 2005 01:03 PM
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A little bit of "Sour" Cream goes a long way. |
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Mike Winter Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA |
posted 02 December 2005 03:10 PM
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It's funny, by Clapton's own admission, he left the endless power trio jamming after he hung out with The Band in Woodstock, NY. After he heard Big Pink, he purposely sought a more earthy, rootsy direction. So, although I wouldn't mind seeing the Cream reunion, I'd rather see a reunion of Clapton and the people he played with from the "Delaney and Bonnie On Stage" through "Layla" period. ------------------ |
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Andy Greatrix Member From: Edmonton Alberta |
posted 02 December 2005 05:28 PM
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I listened and watched most of it. It was like Clapton was dragging two chains. Bruce was playing a fretless bass and was being careful not to play out of tune, therefore unable to go for the throat, so to speak. Baker had no choice but to lock in at Bruce's level. The rythmn section, while tight, lacked adventure or drive. It doesn't matter how good the lead player is; If the rythmn section is lacking, you have a second-rate band. That's how I heard it. |
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John Lockney Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA |
posted 02 December 2005 10:25 PM
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I was never a huge Clapton fan but, I thought the Cream reunion shows were fantastic! His solos seemed like he was really stretching, coming up with random and unpredictable stuff. In the extended guitar solo bits I thought Ginger Baker offered some surprises and helped keep it interesting. I love the way the "middle" drops-out in the guitar solos. Without his usual musical bed of two keyboards, two percussion players, backup guitar, multiple backup singers, etc. Clapton sounded more out-on-a-limb. I liked his tone. Smudgy and dark. I looked-up what distortion "effects" he used; guitar-->cable-->'57 custom Tweed amp. (what all those boxes are trying to "emulate!") I will probably put the DVD on my Christmas list if it includes "Stormy Monday", which It would have been sort of cool if he played an SG (for something different), wailed on |
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Rick McDuffie Member From: Smithfield, North Carolina, USA |
posted 03 December 2005 02:26 PM
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You're missing the point, boys. It was a cultural event. I wish I'd been there! The thought of that many 50-ish white guys isn't appealing, though. |
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Archie Nicol Member From: Ayrshire, Scotland |
posted 03 December 2005 04:07 PM
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June has bought me the dvd for Christmas. I hope it was filmed elsewhere, if your reports are anything to go by. |
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Chris LeDrew Member From: Newfoundland, Canada |
posted 04 December 2005 12:04 AM
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Mr Lockney, Refreshing post. I was going to add my two cents, but you did it for me. I saw the reunion, and also thought it was top notch. I'm a little surprised at the negative comments here about the Cream reunion. What did you expect? Did you see the Farewell '68 show? They were way better this time around, IMHO. This forum can get so crusty sometimes. I suggest some of you revisit this show on DVD....you're obviously missing something if you can't see the musicianship delivered here. |
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Kenny Burford Member From: Lexington, Missouri USA |
posted 04 December 2005 03:42 AM
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Chris, I will accept what you are saying regarding my negative perspective of the concert, no doubt I am "Crusty," about many aspects of music but personally I did not care for what I heard. IMO they (Cream) sounded a like a bar band jamming rather than a legendary R&R band putting on a nationally broadcast concert. Eric Clapton is like Brent Mason, in the fact that when he is on top of his game his playing can be signature. He has the ability to play the perfect musical phrase at the right time and that's what turned me off about the show right off of the bat. I feel the same way about John Hughey, Paul Franklin, Jr., Steward Duncan and many other great players in country music they seem to have a sixth sense about knowing the perfect musical phrase to play at the right time. I don't care how many notes a person plays I live for the musical phrases that live in your mind for a lifetime. The ones that create musical inferences that create emotion. Nothing I heard in the first 3 to 5 minutes of the broadcast came close to what I expected to hear from Clapton. I am 53, so you are right I am hitting or already arrived at the “Crusty” stage of my life, but that does not change the fact that when I hear something that seems mundane that I am going to force myself to watch it for the sake of telling folks I watched it just to be vogue. I am happy for everyone that did enjoy the Cream Reunion Concert and found it to be entertaining, but it was not for me. |
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Mike Perlowin Member From: Los Angeles CA |
posted 04 December 2005 04:45 AM
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I just watched a re-broadcast. (No doubt one of many that will take place over the next few weeks.) There were moments when the guys got inspired, and moments when they were just phoning it in. It really was showcase for Clapton though. He was always the star of the band. Even more so this time around. Perhaps the band should change it's name to "Eric Clapton and 2 other guys." Ginger Baker looked remarkable well preserved. Jack Bruce did not. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 04 December 2005 09:55 AM
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HDTV is the greatest thing about this decade. I can go to concerts without putting up with the crowds. Seeing that many old white guys losing their inhibitions in one place is, well, not a pretty sight. This broadcast was great, IMHO. Knowing what I know now about music, it was interesting to study the song structure and improvisational techniques that made these 3 guys legends of our generation. Consider how old they were when they developed this music. It is creative genius at work. Mike thought they were "phoning it in" at times. I disagree. You can't coast in a trio in front of that many people. The pressure from the crowd and the internal tensions are greater than anything you or I have experienced, I imagine. Try to walk a mile in their shoes. The encore "Sunshine of Your Love" exceeded my highest expectations. Bravo! ------------------ |
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Jim Walker Member From: Florida Panhandle |
posted 06 December 2005 11:30 AM
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Cream was a little before my time but I have always respected their music and their talent. I'm with b0b on this one. No coasting in a trio. I've played in a trio many times. In fact I've wanted to start up another trio band deticated to playing great trio band music like Cream, ZZ Top, Rush, Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Etc. I saw the special and I like it. ------------------ |
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Michael Johnstone Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA |
posted 06 December 2005 09:48 PM
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As a Cream fan since they first came out,I got a real kick out of the reunion concert. I saw Cream twice - once in a small club in Greenwich Village in 1967 and again in Miami in 1969 when I actually opened for them at a place called Thee Image. The only thing I didn't like was the progression from when I first saw them to the second time when they started to get into these long formless jams. I attributed this to boredom and drugs and their live albums bore this out with a couple exceptions like "Crossroads" which I like many others feel was the quintessential blues-rock power trio masterpiece. This time around they sound more like the first time I saw them with more concise arrangements and a lot less noodling plus the seasoning that comes with age. And in blues,which is essentially what they've always done,seasoning and understatement is everything. Clapton has gotten a bit reserved in later years but I liked hearing him stretch out and thought he got off some of the best solos I've ever heard from him - especially on a couple of slow tunes like "Politician" and "Sleepy Time Time". His singing was better than ever as was Baker's playing(and taste). To be honest,Jack Bruce is in poor health from a dodgy liver transplant a couple years ago but even at that,he gave a fine showing even tho he looked old and tired. Not many bands from that time could reform and play that well. I liked it enough to run out and buy the DVD. If only Jimi were still around... -MJ- |
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Bunky Markert Member From: Baltimore, MD, USA |
posted 08 December 2005 08:28 PM
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I saw it and I was truly underwhelmed. I may be in the distinct minority, but I think Clapton's playing started going downhill when he picked up a Strat (and I'm a Fender guy). I cut my teeth learning Clapton's Cream stuff, and at that time he was the young pup in the band along with more seasoned bandmates. I happen to think the live version of Crossroads is one of the great all time rock solos, you can learn everything you need to know about rock guitar in a couple of choruses. And you can tell he is hanging on for dear life while playing his butt off on that tune. His energy and vitality was unmistakable then, and I don't think he ever reached that level again later in his career. He became a blues singer, and the guitar chops were secondary. As for the reunion, I thought he was really playing it safe, pentatonic ad nauseum. And I didn't think his tone was much either, that's why I think a Les Paul or a Firebird and some Marshalls would have been more authentic. Can you imagine someone like Robben Ford or Larry Carlton or even John Scofield doing that gig? Yeah, they wouldn't have filled the hall, but the music would have been interesting. But it put some cash in Bruce and Baker's pockets. Good for them. |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 09 December 2005 11:09 AM
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quote:I always thought there was an obvious tape splice going into the last verse. So maybe Crossroads was originally long and formless too.
quote:This, especially Crossroads, could be a pharmacological issue. |
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Chris LeDrew Member From: Newfoundland, Canada |
posted 09 December 2005 04:42 PM
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Yes, Ernest.... the original "Crossroads" solo does carry a whiff of amphetamines. |
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HowardR Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y. |
posted 10 December 2005 05:18 AM
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quote:
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Bunky Markert Member From: Baltimore, MD, USA |
posted 10 December 2005 11:34 AM
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I don't know if there is an edit or not, but in the second guitar solo of Crossroads, Clapton loses the beat but then rescues himself. You could characterize it as a goof I suppose, but I kind of think it makes the solo. You could hardly say Bruce was anchoring the downbeat, so it's no wonder they got wrapped around the axle. But that solo has a great arc, a beginning, middle, and end, which is hard to do, especially in a live context. I've read that the solo Larry Carlton did on Kid Charlemagne (Steely Dan) has one edit, which is also impressive in my book. Those guys were notorious for piecing solos together, Jay Graydon's solo on Peg is a prime example. Still a killer solo. |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 10 December 2005 12:47 PM
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I just listened to Crossroads (for the first time in about 35 years) and altho Clapton does rush, especially at the start of the 1st solo, I don't think he loses the beat. It sure does sound like a splice when the intensity drops so suddenly at the downbeat of the last verse. |
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Bunky Markert Member From: Baltimore, MD, USA |
posted 11 December 2005 06:39 PM
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I'm talking about the second solo, which covers three verses, the end of the first verse, starting at bar 7 he starts this repetitive double stop so by the time he gets to the 5 chord he's late, or it least it sounds that way to me, he hits this low A note, pauses and recovers from it. It just sounds like he gets ahead of himself. I don't have a copy of it to refer to, it's stuck in my head from learning it years ago. We might be talking about two different things, there may be an edit I'm not aware of. |
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Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA |
posted 12 December 2005 05:48 AM
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Bunky, I think you're right. As for the concert, "White Room" with no wah-wah????? |
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Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 20 December 2005 07:57 PM
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I just saw the DVD and was impressed. I also think that Clapton never played up to his potential after Cream. I felt sorry looking at Jack Bruce. What a great, great player. It was like looking at an old lion. He still played his butt off though. Ginger Baker was also outstanding. Fantastic. I think Cream was an example of three exceptional players pushing eachother beyond their own boundaries. I always considered Clapton boring after he left Cream. You could see Jack Bruce egging on Clapton with his own playing. Ginger Baker's drum solo was a mind blower. I look at these garage bands on Leno today and just shake my head. Its a shame that Cream didn't do a world wide reunion tour. They would make millions. Its funny. My brother saw them in '67 at The Cafe Wah in Greenwich Village. No alcohol. My brother had his feet on the stage it was so small. It was a hole in the wall. I still remember him coming home and raving about them. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 20 December 2005 at 07:59 PM.] [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 20 December 2005 at 08:00 PM.] |
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Bob Carlucci Member From: Candor, New York, USA |
posted 20 December 2005 09:28 PM
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I have to add my voice in with the naysayers.. I dunno the guys looked tired or something.... I did not hear the energy I was hoping for, but these guys are not kids anymore either. it was good and tight, just uninspired I thought... Eric should have trashed the Strat and went with an SG and a Marshall stack for this concert.. I prefer to remember them as they were 38 years ago I guess... bob |
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Geoff Brown Member From: Nashvegas |
posted 20 December 2005 10:25 PM
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I saw the PBS show. I'll probably pick up the DVD at some point. I prefer not to analyze every little detail of the show...how they looked..tired, old, whatever. I thought they sounded pretty damned good. Ginger Baker impressed me the most. He was a pioneer 30 years ago, and his style remains unmistakable today, to my ears anyway. My only niggle would be with Eric playing the Strat. Decent sounding enough, but I would have liked to have seen Gibsons and some Marshalls on the backline. But heck...he doesn't owe me or anyone else anything. Of course...I didn't fork over $600 or whatever for a ticket  I've read some reviews from shows saying that Eric did play a es-335 thru a Marshall briefly at one of these shows. |
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Rick McDuffie Member From: Smithfield, North Carolina, USA |
posted 21 December 2005 06:24 AM
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I'd like to ANY of us rock like that at ANY point in our lives, not to mention 60+. :) It was a bit sobering to see how Jack and Ginger have aged. But, let's face it, they're getting old (as I am also). We've been seeing Eric all along, so the shock wasn't as great. I've always loved Ginger's drumming... like the late Keith Moon, you always knew instantly when it was him. Solid, innovative, always doing the unexpected. Based on what I heard, he still has the feel and style, if not the stamina. I hope the three of them enjoyed the reunion. |
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Chris Schlotzhauer Member From: Colleyville, Tx. USA |
posted 21 December 2005 07:00 AM
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I bought the DVD before it was released. Overall, I think it's fantastic. It was slow out of the shute. First of all, their body of songs are great. Second, it's the original members performing those songs 37 years later. Yeah, maybe not as much youthful energy, but in this case, I tend to look past that. Jack Bruce is a monster talent. On "Sittin on Top Of The World" he's singing, playing bass, and blowing harp in unison to Eric's guitar. Ginger's solo on "Toad" is great. Badge, White Room, Sunshine, were a few of my fav's. I don't think today, ANY three piece band could exist. The kids today can't even play a scale, much less pentatonic ad-nausium. I give it a big thumbs-up. If they decide to tour, I'm there. |
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Michael Johnstone Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA |
posted 21 December 2005 09:56 AM
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As far as the Gibson/Marshall thing,they mention it in the interview section of the DVD - something along the lines of "We tried it at rehearsal and it's just not us as we are today" Resisting the urge to play to teenage nostalgia and just going with the amps and guitars they've naturally gravitated to over the years is fine with me. Otherwise I may as well gripe because Clapton failed to rise to the occasion and grow out his circa 1968 'Fro or that they failed to snort crank or smoke dope before the show. I thought Bruce's mid-rangey EB-0 and Marshall combination always kinda sucked tonewise anyhow. Even back then I wished he'd used a Fender bass thru a stack of Dual Showmans or Sunns - then even with his frantic playing there'd have been a lot more bottom goin on. I like his tone now much better thru the Hartke rig. BTW,I was also there in 1967 at the Cafe Wha - altho I was fully 10 feet out in front of the stage so I didn't get to put my feet on it. I heard Clapton say that they were gonna come to the States this coming year and do some more gigs. I doubt tho that many of us could afford tickets... -MJ- |
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Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 21 December 2005 02:12 PM
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Michael, what a small world. I also do not object to their new instrumentation. I think Ginger Bakers drums sounded better than his old Ludwigs. I think they all sounded okay tone wise. I just don't think that Clapton was quite up to the other two in intensity. I thought the end of "Sunshine Of Your Love" pretty much summed up the sixties. It was heavy. Bruce was really on his game even though he was old. I think he did the absolute best he could with what he had. Clapton could have dug a little deeper. |
Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 All times are Pacific (US) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
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