But an unfinished instrument? One wonders why it was not finished. But with a letter of provenance it might bring the Buy It Now price from a collector. I doubt it would ever be finished, would probably ruin the value to a collector.

[This message was edited by Michael Hardee on 14 October 2006 at 08:01 PM.]

--a rough-cut body awaiting shaping
--an amateurish neck-to-neck pocket fit
--what looks like a hasty brushed on shellac finish
--a claim of provenance that the seller hasn't even bothered to substantiate---I mean, if you are going to make the claims, at least go out and get the paperwork yourself, don't tell people to get in touch with Monteleone

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Mullen, Royal Precision, D10, Peavey Nashville 112, DD3, Peavey Session 2000, Goodrich L120 VP.

Q: It's a joke right? The neck doesn't even fit the body correctly. The instrument looks like it was built by a 12 year old. This unfinished hunk of wood is maybe worth $25. I don't know how you came up with $2500, but you're living in a dream world. It's gonna be a long week. ...and who the heck is John.. oh, never mind.

Oct-15-06

A: HI A----OLE, ARE YOU INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO GIVE MR MONTELEONE A PHONE CALL AND VERIFY THIS? HE MADE THIS FOR JOHN AGNEW IN THE LATE 70'S OR EARLY 80'S. IT WOULD BE KIND OF STUPID TO GIVE OUT THIS MUCH INFO IF IT WERE NOT TRUE. THE NECK FITS PERFECT THE WAY THAT IT IS SUPPOSE TO. AND THANK YOU FOR THIS KIND QUESTION. BEST REGARDS TIM.

[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 15 October 2006 at 11:17 AM.]

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[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 15 October 2006 at 01:47 PM.]

The seller just asks that if you have doubts before bidding, to get in touch with the builder and he will verify... Sounds reasonable to me.. If what he says is true,and I would bet it is, you guys are calling the early work of the worlds greatest living luthier worthless junk.
[arguably I suppose but he's the best living luthier I know of]....

It is certainly possible, he just started roughing things out and never finished it or the guy changed his mind etc... maybe just putting something together quick for a friend maybe??? An email to mr Monteleone WOULD clear things up I suppose....

It certainly MAY be worth the asking price to a collector of Monteleone guitars... Imagine what an unfinished D'Angelico solidbody would be worth... Yes I KNOW he didn't build solidbodies, but thats the point here I think... bob

[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 15 October 2006 at 05:51 PM.]

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If what he says is true,and I would bet it is,

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Thats what it would be. A bet. The seller could even have a setup "partner" to answer phone calls, saying such things as, "Yes, this is Monteleone, and I was going to make an exquisite lap steel out of that wood"

Whatever..........................

After the sale, the sellers going to be saying:

"He he he, that old Squire neck and chair seat brought 2500.00!"

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 15 October 2006 at 06:22 PM.]

A lot of people. Monteleone is one of the most respected builders in the industry. His mandolins and archtops are legendary and while they are true collector's items and woth incredible sums of money, they get played regularly because they ARE that good. A freind has an F-5 style mando he bought in the late-70's fo $2,500, a huge sum for a mandolin in those days (and a relatively cheap amount for a top-level mando now) - it's appraised at around $50k and he still plays it at festivals, just like guys play pre-war D-28's, Lloyd Loar Gibsons, '20's Granadas etc.

This will be bought by a collector, and there are plenty who will be tracking the auction. Yes, it's an unfinished hunk of wood with a neck. You have to step back from the "player" mentality to look at things like this - it's like collecting any other rarity. The price has NOTHING to do with the practical value.

As far as the initial post with "Who is John Monteleone?"...did you ever think of maybe doing a google search or something before posting?

This is a pretty simple thing to analzye, assuming provenance. It simply has collector value because of who started building it.

"The seller could even have a setup "partner" to answer phone calls,"

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Oh, please. Monteleone is easily contacted. That's ludicrous.

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Monte's reply: "Good Lord man! Who are you? Get off my phone!"..CLICK

quote:

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A lot of people. Monteleone is one of the most respected builders in the industry.

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quote:

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This is a pretty simple thing to analzye, assuming provenance.

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You know what they say about assuming......

Who was it that said, "there's a sucker born every minute"?

Hint: it involves a circus!

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 15 October 2006 at 06:39 PM.]

Don't forget there are also the honest but misinformed/just plain stupid ones to contend with.

My own opinion is it's hard for me to believe that Monteleone would have anything to do with this shapeless body and especially a bolt-on neck with rounded corners in a squared neck pocket, showing gaps where the rounded neck corners don't fill the square routed corners. Plus, you can see gouges on the side of the neck by the nut. I would think that's not the kind of workmanship Monteleone or any good luthier would do.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 15 October 2006 at 09:22 PM.]

Jeeez, Curt - first you propose that the seller has a "setup" man with some mysterious phone line when Montleone's phone is listed and the seller suggested contacting him.

Then you ridicule the idea of someone MAKING a phone call by adding the "Squire" (by the way - it's "Squier"...) comments.

Your attitude seems to be showing...why not let people who are interested contact John and see what he makes of it.

Because that's exactly what will happen in the next day or two, and if it's a fake, the listing will be yanked.

What's the big deal? Are you just feeling bad and lashing out now because you couldn't look up "Monteleone" without help?

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quote:

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I think his friend lied about the Monteleone connection. Or maybe the friend got it from a friend... who heard the story about Monteleone from another friend

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Sounds about right to me.

quote:

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Are you just feeling bad and lashing out now because you couldn't look up "Monteleone" without help?

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Your attitude seems to be showing...

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Jeeze, I guess it's rocket science to some...........

Pretty clear to me!

BTW, its

I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, if anyone is interested.............

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 16 October 2006 at 03:26 AM.]

I called Mr. Monteleone (very personable guy!) and gave him a heads-up and the EBay item number. He advised me that he would have a look at the EBay listing and email me with his comments. He also gave me permission to post his comments here on the Forum. When I get his email, I'll post it here.

Hello Mike,

I took a look at this thing and for the life of me unless I was
unconscious when this was made I can't remember it at all. I don't
believe that I made any of this.

Here's what I do recall. The owner of that thing used to come around to
my shop once in a while back in the late 70s' I think and bring in
various steel guitar projects that he usually half baked. I may have
tried to help him out with something now and then because he didn't have
the money to spend but he did have a real liking for slide guitar, which
I do too. He had some really funky guitars. But no, I didn't do this
one.

Thank you for giving me the heads up on this guitar Mike. Would you
please make it known to your steelers on the list what the story is for
me? Thanks.

John M.

ps..my National is one of the earliest ones with the special order 7th
string. It's from 1935 and serial numbered N 111.

I'm trying to find out what she's worth. Would you happen to know?

The National he mentions is one he told me about on the phone that he (may) have for sale.

Hope this clarifies things a little.

Mike

Oh, by the way, John Monteleone's email address is archtop@optonline.net, and his phone number is (631)277-3620.

[This message was edited by Mike Harmon on 16 October 2006 at 01:59 PM.]

So now a few decades later, this guy was a personal friend and this thing was "built" by Monteleone.... and the ebay seller is positive it is an important piece... NOT...

I have a feeling maybe the seller was the guy that got scammed at one point...

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I don't know why, but i still think the seller is reasonably honest.. I have a feeling the item was misrepresented to him somewhere along te line... bob

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The seller says he got this years ago from his friend in a trade. I think his friend lied about the Monteleone connection.

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It looks like my earlier assessment was not too far off!

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[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 16 October 2006 at 06:36 PM.]

Sorry to be a party-pooper! I'm sure B0B just LOVES the flame-wars which break out on here from time to time. As much as I like to watch a good fight, I figured "why not just call the guy up and ask him".

After all, Monteleone's name was used to try to sell something that he very likely had nothing to do with. The guy is a master craftsman, and if I were in his shoes, I'd want to know if someone were using my name or my reputation to try to sell something as amateurish-looking as that EBay item.

When I called him, I simply told him I had seen the EBay posting and thought he should have a look at it. What he does with the information I gave him is his business. Personally, I think he ought to contact the seller and insist that references to his name be removed from the EBay description, but that's his decision to make.

And in all truth, I suspect that Bob's right about the seller. Chances are, he knows little or nothing about guitars, his buddy probably fed him a line of BS about the thing's history, and the seller believed it. He obviously checked out Monteleone's Web site, saw the prices of the handmade archtops, and figured he had a real jewel on his hands.

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So where was the "scam"? Other than the seller being told the wrong story, there WAS no scam. You could argue that the seller should have checked it oout...but as an eBay seller of estate stuff, you often just don't have the time, so you dowhat this one did - suggest contacting the reported maker.

I just don't get the attitude...plus it's odd when Curt implies he has no idea who Monteleone is, then later talks about his great reputation. Huh? Sounds like someone trying to start a dustup to me.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 17 October 2006 at 06:15 AM.]