B -1,9 cents
D -3,9
E 0.0
F# -3,9
G# -13.7
D# -13,7

Raises/Loweres:
A +3.9
C# -5,9
D +5,9
F -17,8
F# +5,9
Eb -3,9
Bb +9,8

I'm playing in a band with to other guitars and a keyboard, all tuned 440. Is this the best offset or should I program my tuner to be even more in tune with the other instruments? If so - any suggestions for offsets?

Edit: my offsets are from the Peterson forum.

[This message was edited by Dag Jonas Skjoelsvold on 24 May 2005 at 09:42 AM.]

I'm just looking more carefully at this post; 13 CENTS?!? 17 CENTS?!?!? TELL ME I'M HALLUCINATING AND THAT NOBODY REALLY DOES THIS, PLEASE I BEG YOU!!!
An intervention may be in order...

[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 24 May 2005 at 08:45 AM.]

Now you've really gone and done it...

Check the Jeff Newmann Tuning chart.

It's 30 cents off within one position too..

In my experience the Newman pre sets are a great starting point for playing in tune with any sort of ensemble.

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Bob
intonation help

quote:

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Its more about your ears than anything.

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This whole thing is just embarrassing!
Stop it.

[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 24 May 2005 at 09:51 AM.]

In case you didn't notice in your exile to the Forbidden Zone, there have been many technological advances..

You actually can buy a tuner,(now that they have the technology), that causes serious musicians to laugh behind your back..

It was bound to happen.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 24 May 2005 at 11:58 AM.]

I swore I'd quit when I needed glasses..

I didn't...

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 24 May 2005 at 12:18 PM.]

I thought many of you had a Peterson V-II (or Sam) with offsets?

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Bob
intonation help

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 24 May 2005 at 01:41 PM.]

quote:

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I may go a cent or so flat in some cases but strictly to handle temp changes under certain conditions.

Also when I hear a JI steel third in a ET track, flat is the only word I can come up with. -Buddy Emmons-

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I gotta admit that I roadtested my simple Tune To The Tuner System™ for more than a quarter century and literally thousands live gigs before I even knew there was a serious debate about it.

There have been a number of highly intelligent and caring people that have devoted their lives to create Perpetual Motion.

I've been busy trying to live within the laws of physics, with limited results.

EJL

PS. Honestly, if even ONE post ot the hundreds I've read EVER made a credible case for flatting my thirds sixths and god knows what else to 'remove the beats', I'd have at least tried it. Indeed I could, as I doubt the bands I play with would know the difference, but none have, so I haven't

[This message was edited by Eric West on 24 May 2005 at 02:38 PM.]

(Just to add some light to this well-lit topic!)

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Do you teach Bob?
Would you allow your students to do what-the-heck-ever just to make life easier in the short term?
I spend a lot of energy making my guitar students quit using the 3-finger pick grip because I remember how hard it was for me to unlearn this bad habit.

Eric, When he said ET, I think Buddy was talking about Ernest Tubb at the time.

Lee

It seems like there was and still is a lot of great sounding music out there where the instruments were tuned without these 'new fangled' tuners. Above all, us steel players must be able to dynamically tune as we play.

This is just my personal experience from many years of playing live gigs.

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quote:

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Steel players do it without fretting

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http://www.waikiki-islanders.com

Even a blind pig can find an acorn. The more determined he or she is, the more he or she will find. Numbers can only increase the odds.

I'm glad of that myself.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 24 May 2005 at 06:53 PM.]

Important safety note for topics like these, "...when the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is NOT your friend!"

Ricky...

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd, Nashville 112,Hilton Volume pedal, Peterson VS-II Tuner
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah, PX4 Pandoras Box

After 34 years of making a fulltime living in studios, on both sides of the glass, my only observation is 1)there are no rules and 2) see number one. If straight up works for you, that's great.

However, for me, it just doesn't work, and never will. I've worked with all the players I mentioned, and it's interesting to watch all of them tune by ear, to sweet sounding open chords. Heck, I've never seen Sonny use a tuner--he just gets an E from the piano and tunes it up. It is very interesting to listen to them do it while "soloed" in the control room--it's where you can really hear the sweetness of JI before they start playing. And it fits perfectly into a track with acoustic piano and guitars, hammonds and the like. And at the end of the day, that's all I care about--charts, graphs, theory mean nothing to me--only a sweet, in-tune track . I have experimented several times with stright up, and could not get close to making it work in a track, but that's me...

I've asked this before and I'm a gunna ask it agin: what happens to those 'sweet' sounding flatted G#s when you/they move to a different inversion? Or do you/they only play the 'open' chord inversion? If so, do you/they retune for the AB pedal inversion? Then do you/they only play in THAT inversion? What about the AF inversion? What about the Eb inversion?

You see, I use ALL these inversions in EVERY song so I'm kind of handicapped into using straight up tuning otherwise some of the thirds are WAY flat and round and round we go!

Are you egging me into saying that those guys you mentioned don't know what they're doing? Lord knows I've made enough enemies that a few hunnert more can't possibly matter, eh?

Maybe just the frustration that has come up in the hundreds of these posts where too many people have been told what they "must like to hear.

I've said it a dozen times, that my favorite listening playing was done with steel guitars that I can hear are out of tune, ET JI TU SOL, or otherwise. I'd take Jimmy Day on the old Willie Nelson Records over half the others I and others have named.

What I said about Determination is true, and if you have it, you will not ever be successfuly discouraged. I haven't been in 25 years of playing much more than the median thousand gig/lifetime playing population.

There was a year or two, or an instance or two where anyone with a concience, any valor, or common sense would have quit.

Two Months was as long as I ever made it, and that was to finish up a 63 panhead. I kicked it until I nearly ruined my knee jount, and went back to weekly gigs.

Yup. You must win. There are no rules. If you find yourself losing, refer to rule number one.

There is no explaining the magic of playing what's in your heart, and having it come out above the din of a live band. Even when you are tuned a little differently.

It's like flying in your dreams.

I think the reason we strive for it constantly is like in our "flying dreams" which I still seem to have many of.

In them I've noticed there is no way to attain a lofty perch and "hang out". You also know instinctly that you are going to fall back to the firmament. You don't care.It's the "flying" that matters.

I know I feel it a lot more in a live paid gig, than in the studio, so most of the stuff I've done, gets flipped out a car window. Good or otherwise. That's just me though.

I've always found it simpler to tune to a tuner, and go for it.

So shoot me now, cause I'm gonna keep doing it..

Just notice, whether you're playing steel or piano, it's not the beats you hear, it's the notes. Playing style will accommodate whatever method you use for tuning.