|
Author
|
Topic: Anyone else Rethinking the NV112?
|
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 11:34 AM
profile
After playing a mikeless gig with my Nvl400 and getting immediate comments from the rest of the band to the effect that it didn't sound like I was having to push it as hard to get a good well defined "sound". It wasn't that big of a job either, just a standard 50'-x100'- dance hall. I think I might narrow the uses of the 112 to miked gigs, or double amp jobs.Hmm...  EJL |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
|
posted 23 July 2005 12:08 PM
profile
No. I see no reason to not use it and it's very seldom that I work a job that is miked. I've also got a NV1000 and a stereo rack system but all I've been using since I got the NV112 back in late Feb is the NV112. |
Roger Crawford
Member From: Locust Grove, GA USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 12:31 PM
profile
I'm with Jack. I just packed my equipment to go play a 250 seat Opry House gig, and the 112 is what I'm taking. It's got plenty of power and the best tone you can hope for. Why break your back? |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
|
posted 23 July 2005 12:59 PM
profile
I used mine at a 987 seat gig about 4800 sq ft no sweat CC |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 01:03 PM
profile
It was kind of strange as I've played most of a hundred live gigs with it, I did notice however a bit more "headroom".No way I'll ever lug that 500 around again, but the 400 might be making the trip a little more to the single amp gigs. We'll see. Maybe someone else has had a similar experience. EJL |
Gere Mullican
Member From: LaVergne, Tennessee, USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 01:25 PM
profile
I use my NV112 exclusively because its the only amp I have. Have played some pretty big spaces and never cranked the volume up past about 3. I am only using a MXR Dynacomp and the amp. Not using the DD3 or DD5 any more.
Gere |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 01:29 PM
profile
I've had no problems with mine. I like it alot!
I haven't played it much beyond Pre at 11 o'clock, Post at 3 o'clock.
I used it in Stereo with a Fender Deluxe Reverb at the Tracy Lawrence opener the other night. Sounded great! (they mic'd only the Fender).
The only re-thinking I've done about the 112 is keeping it rather than selling it (I got it in a trade and originally thought I would sell it right away).
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 23 July 2005 at 01:30 PM.] |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 01:38 PM
profile
Well it was strange because I had not noticed it myself. I did notice the compressor kicking in once in a while, but it's a great compressor.I've been miking the 400 and using the 112 as a "monitor" amp with the reverb cranked for "me". Other than that, I've used the Lwz out of the 112 to the board and it actually sent more bass to the board than the SM57s seem to off the 400. The 112 seems to handle even the bass of the C6. I'll check it again tonite. It's sure a great amp, but like all good things it's seeming to have limitations. Using a tube amp for the second amp is certainly a great thing too. I was considering getting another 112 but I've been offered a couple tubers lately. We'll see. EJL |
Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 01:45 PM
profile
"I was considering getting another 112 but I've been offered a couple tubers lately." Eric, no small potatoes! Hope you can get 'em for PEANUTS!!!! [This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 23 July 2005 at 02:20 PM.] |
Mike Brown
Member From: Meridian, Mississippi USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 01:49 PM
profile
Your comments help our R & D department with future steel projects. Thank you.[This message was edited by Mike Brown on 25 July 2005 at 08:47 AM.] |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 23 July 2005 02:19 PM
profile
Mike.If I can get closer to "what it is" I'll certainly be posting it. Maybe the 15 inch speaker, and there are some advances being made in efficiency. The only real suggestion I have come up with so far is to somehow eliminate the "beer vent" in the top. Maybe with side out venting, and a convection flow channel inside the cabinet. I dunno.. Thanks
EJL |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
|
posted 23 July 2005 06:06 PM
profile
It's the N400 for me.( or more) I don't think it is fair to compare a solid state 80 watt amp to a solid state 250 watt amp..or whatever the 400 is.. they are not the same amp..and are not supposed to be.. Eric, the WHAT IT IS factor is that spare ultra clean reserve you have when you hit your volume pedal and the force of the N400 ( or more) lets you know in no uncertain terms whats behind you with NO CHANGE in tonal characteristics.
Our gigs can be a tad on the loud side on the stage, not excessive but forcefull and usually not mic'd..a single 12 will not cut it for me..
Eric I like what you said about using the 112 as a monitor..I have been thinking about that as part of my rig as well... I use two amps, the 400 is for stage presence and is positioned UNBLOCKED , the second amp is more of a monitor ( Hot Rod Deville) which I also use for the Tele..., This is not for volume..but rather clarity... my backup Steel amp is a Session 400 Limited... On smaller rooms where space is an issue it's the Hot Rod Deville for both Steel and Tele... Someone a few weeks back had this similar discussion and referred to the rigs as A and B..the A rig being the bigger amp and the B rig being the N112..several replied they had 2 rigs but were both A rigs... If you are playing a very large room, you may feel the N112 is covering the entire room..but chances are it is not.. The 112's are fine little amps but they are not intended for every player / every gig..If it works for you then great but it is NOT an amp which is to be compared to the class of the Sessions, 400's/1000's...thats not it's purpose in life. Thats like saying I don't need my Twin anymore, I'll bring a Deluxe Reverb from now on...When you bring your Twin you know what you got..when you bring your Deluxe Reverb you know what you DON'T got.... it's not always about volume... t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 July 2005 at 04:15 AM.] [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 July 2005 at 04:16 AM.] |
Dave Grafe
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 01:22 AM
profile
I could get by with the smaller amp - I use a Crown D150 sometimes, about 70 watts, with a single 8 ohm JBL D130F - but the smaller speaker is a big limitation. One 12" speaker, no matter how good sounding it may be, just doesn't move enough air for me. |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 05:44 AM
profile
If you wanted to have one set of tone controls for the whole thing, wouldn't be easiest (and cheapest) to use the NV112 as your "monitor" but pull a line out the back into a Crown or Peavey CS400 or something, driving a separate speaker cabinet? It's more trips to lug stuff, but it only takes one "mistake" to fry your back. |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 12:57 PM
profile
Dave, Based on your recent Duffs gig with Keeter, was your amp moving enough air for you that night?
Just trying to get a feel for how you calibrate Volume vs Loudness vs Tone.
I'm thinking I like to hear more air moved by the steel (if that means I can hear the steel player prominatly in the mix)... but not sure if, for example, a 12 and a 15 are moving the same amount of air, is that the same loudness?... and then what about tone.
Thx,
Pete B.
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 24 July 2005 at 01:13 PM.]
|
Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 01:22 PM
profile
I've been extremely happy with my Walker Stereo Steel Rig lately, but still take the 1-12 to some small venue gigs. Great amp, holds up well for C6, but a loud band in a medium venue may get close to the "end of headroom". The only things I don't care for on the Nashville 1-12 are the top vent and the positioning of the control cut-out- way too easy to break/bend the pot shafts. And maybe if it came in lime green snakeskin?
Killer amp.------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
|
Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 02:39 PM
profile
Of COURSE people are re-thinking the N-112. They re-thought their Twin Reverbs, their Session 400's, their Webbs, Sho-Buds, Fenders, Gibsons, Fords, and Chevrolets! I've heard some guys get good tone out of the N112 (I help run a steel show, 4 times a year, so I've heard a LOT of these things), and some guys not get good tone.
Al the improvements (15" speaker, more power, etc.) would take away from Peavey's intention with the N112---to build a light, small steel amp. I agree, the top venting is a bad idea---it's a bad idea with Marshalls, too, BTW---and the problem with the controls SHOULD be addressed. There is NOT, nor will there ever be, one amp for everybody---thankfully.
Kinda like tuning, I guess... |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 04:02 PM
profile
(.. spits ice tea over keyboard....)..Yup.. I used the 400 again last night, and due to a couple comments other than the bands' I'm gonna be using the 112 just a little less. Maybe it's cause I've used the 400 a lot more in the last 13 years, and I'm used to it. I"m certainly carting the 112 as a second amp. Damn nice little package for sure. Dave. I heard it nicely. I agree. I was there though.. Get it?
EJL |
Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 04:31 PM
profile
*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 13 November 2005 at 12:52 PM.] |
Dave Zirbel
Member From: Sebastopol, CA USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 07:07 PM
profile
After my show the other night the sound man who is also a musician came up an wanted to know what I was playing through. It was the NV112. He was amazed how the sound was filling up the room and not harsh or hurting anyone, and he said the tone I was getting was great, and that is was clean yet still warm. The warmth could have been from the ZB. It was one of the larger dance halls I've played with a big dance floor, and the place was moderatly filled up with people. The NV112 has become my workhorse amp. If for some reason I need more juice, I'll bring the Webb along. |
Bill Bosler
Member From: Schwenksville, Pennsylvania, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 07:21 PM
profile
I worked an outdoor gig last evening and needed just a litle bit more "oomph" out of the NV112, so I ran a mike cord from the XLR output on the amp to the mixer board. Bingo! We got the sound we needed and no screwing around with mics and mic stands. What a nice amp. |
Dave Grafe
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 08:22 PM
profile
quote:
Dave, Based on your recent Duffs gig with Keeter, was your amp moving enough air for you that night? Just trying to get a feel for how you calibrate Volume vs Loudness vs Tone...not sure if, for example, a 12 and a 15 are moving the same amount of air, is that the same loudness?... and then what about tone
I'll try to be more lucid, Pete --
When backing a singer-songwriter I generally lay back in the mix and try not to step on the vocals (everybody repeat after me: "when the singer opens their mouth the band comes down"). I had lots of room to spare come solo time and I heard from many respected musicians there that my solos were cutting through fine. I couldn't hear the acoustic guitar well, either, which also caused me to lay back more than usual in the mix. Still, in the future I will most likely add a second cabinet on the opposite side of the stage or set the amp on a chair to the side rather than on the floor right behind me to cause me to open up the throttle a bit more so that others could hear the comp work better. Always thinkin' of ya....There is no question in my mind that a NV112 couldn't possibly have done that particular job as well as the Randall did. I was pushing pretty hard occasionally to keep up with the bass amp and drums which were right beside me. As far as loudness / volume / tone I'm not certain what your question is. In technical circles the term "Loudness" generally refers to the Fletcher/Munson human hearing response curves (more lows and highs make a given signal seem "louder" at a given sound pressure level, a subjective term not connected to actual SPL) - this is also related to the subjective spectral phenomena most folks call "Tone." "Volume" refers to an objectively measureable sound pressure level. A given SPL can often be achieved by speakers of different sizes, but the smaller ones will always work harder, induce more distortion and produce a waveform that is more easily blocked or otherwise altered by furniture, fixtures, warm bloodbags and the like. A 12" can't possibly move as much air as a 15" speaker. To generate an equal SPL the smaller speaker has to affect a smaller volume of air MUCH more radically than the larger one. This increases amp and speaker induced distortion, weaker low end response and a significantly less cohesive waveform at distances and off-axis. The larger speaker system will always have the more "defined" sound that Eric mentioned at the top of this thread. Is that sort of what you wanted to know? ------------------
 Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 24 July 2005 at 08:42 PM.] |
Dave Grafe
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 08:39 PM
profile
Don't misunderstand me, guys, what I've heard from others playing the NV112 is all really good PSG sound, it just can't keep up with some of the bad boys I play with without help from the PA system, which is not always an option. |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 24 July 2005 09:03 PM
profile
I do notice that it sent a fatter signal through the XLR.MVA. I too noticed that the pot shafts bend. Never had that happen with the 400. I really do keep amps I buy and I plan on having this one for the duration. A couple of caps and a speaker in the 500 in 20 years, 12 trouble free in the Nvl400, a hundred or so solo with the 112, and more than a couple thousand paid gigs between the three, and I've got no complaints. If Mike wants suggestions from the "foxhole" then they are here. Acknowledgement that there was a differentce in slot sizes on the old BW15s and his willingness to take suggestions into consideration has put it first in mybook of amps to buy. Peavey's getting him for cheap. Great guy. I was always kidding about the logo... EJL |
Webb Kline
Member From: Bloomsburg, PA
|
posted 25 July 2005 07:48 AM
profile
Roy Peterman has been playing around here a lot lately and is using a pair of 112s with his Derby--straight-up--no effects. It is one of the finest sounding rigs I've ever heard. |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
|
posted 25 July 2005 09:13 AM
profile
Dave, Thanks for your responce. Having played the same room a bunch, I didn't think you were cutting through the mix well enough, especially in the first set (again, when the steel is playing, I like to hear it prominantly in the mix). It seemed that the level you were playing at could easily be obtained by a 12 inch speaker, so when you said a 12 doesn't move enough air, I was wondering how you calibrate that with what folks are hearing out front. FWIW, the acoustic strummer was loud and clear out front, and the overall band level was fine.
Pete B.
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 25 July 2005 at 09:13 AM.] |
Joe Savage
Member From: St. Paul, MN
|
posted 26 July 2005 12:35 AM
profile
I bought a NV112 after reading all the buzz about it and find it's a great little amp in many respects especially in it's low-end capacity and size, but feel that it just doesn't have the head room I need for most of the gigs I play. The compression happens way too soon and when really pushed the amp clips pretty badly. I also felt that I just could not dial in the right amount of clarity in the midrange frequencies. I've gone back to the Webb. Joe S. |
Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
|
posted 26 July 2005 02:27 AM
profile
The problem is NOT the amp.it's a fine amp..for what it's intended purpose is...The problem is all the vast array of folks TELLING or advising others that it is the answer to Steel Guitar amps.I can guarantee that if I showed up on our gig with a N112 and not the N400 or more, I would be lost in the mix. And I can take it a step further, If you sat in with our band and used a N112 you would be lost in the mix as well. Yes, our bandstand volume can be a tad loud, but the energy of the band dictates this..the band moves air... Some folks play in very low to moderate volume layed back bands, the N112 would be a fine choice for that. Some folks play in bands that move air..
lots of it... I'll go back to the Twin Reverb comparison.
You can bring a Deluxe Reverb instead of your Twin and you may think you have it covered..but the simple truth is you don't. Other than the weight factor..why would anyone even ponder an 80 watt amp as a direct replacement for it's 250 to 300 watt senior ? Peavey has spent many decades now improving on the SENIOR amps..and thank god for that..I doubt that there business plan is to replace the N1000's with the N112... Just look at the St Louis stage.... The thread is asking about re-thinking the N112...personally for me and I know I'm being a tad edgy here..I have never THOUGHT the N112 was for me.. Would I buy one ? Sure, for my practice room and maybe rehearsals if the price was right... If you are recommending the N112 to a player my feeling is that it would be wise to tell them that if they are playing in a low to moderate situation it's a match..but if they are playing where some kick butt volume may be needed, to step up to the N1000 catagory. It appears to me that Eric has reached his End of the Day conclusion.. Now if Peavey could get the 300 watt N1000 into a 25 pound cabinet... The N112 is a fine amp for it's intended purpose..If it works for your playing enviornment then great..it's a win win... The senior Sessions and Nashvilles can cut any gig...that is there purpose.. I need more coffee.. t 
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 26 July 2005 at 02:29 AM.] |
Jonathan Cullifer
Member From: Atlanta, GA
|
posted 26 July 2005 10:25 PM
profile
You can't get but so much out of an 80 watt amp. I use mine for practice and where I am miked into a sound system. It sounds good as long as it is not pushed too hard. Bigger and louder places necessitate a bigger amp. |
Richard E. Lee
Member From: Macedon, NY, USA
|
posted 27 July 2005 07:58 PM
profile
I have been reading these comments with great interest. I happen to own a 112..and for what I use it for..its perfect. That said, is the trade-off here, a 175W/12in BW..in a small 35 lb package the answer? and if so.. Is there anything on the maket..close to this as something we could use and compare to? Maybe Mike could toss his 2cents in on this. Maybe this "'middle of the road" amp (in theroy) may be the answer to a maiden's prayer. Did PV consider all this, prior to production of the 112? In listening (reading) all this, there just doesn't seem to be anything available that satisifies the "mid-Market size amp...or am I missing something here? Thanks[This message was edited by Richard E. Lee on 27 July 2005 at 08:00 PM.] |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 27 July 2005 08:17 PM
profile
No I think we want a 25 lb, 400 watt 15"speaker amp that is beer proof, knobs that are indestructible, and has a water compartment that can be filled to make it transmit bass to the floor, and emptied descretely with a hose off the bandstand.. ( I just threw the last onf in...The 112, is a GREAT amp, and I have used it alone a lot, I was just made aware by those I work with that it has it's liitations. I maybe just didn't hear them sitting right in front. I know the BW15s have a tendency to "open up" a little farther away. Anyhow, thanks for the resposes. I sure don't intend to sell it. EJL |
Ray Uhl
Member From: Riverside, Missouri, USA
|
posted 31 July 2005 11:29 PM
profile
I play mostly the VFW's, Moose Lodges, American Legions, etc., and....most of the "old folks" love to visit; therefore, forget a good sound. We play so soft that sometimes the voices are louder than the PA The 112 does the trick. I use to have a Nashville LTD with a 15" JBL K series speaker. This speaker outperformed the Black Widows of their day. JBL's project. Now for improvements to the 112. Do away with the cut away on top that exposes the knobs; add a ground switch; put the switchs on front like the 400's; have a 12" speaker designed (like Fender Steel King did the 15") that has the old JBL D130 characteristics. Mike, I may be off base with the Peavey engineers, but thought it was worth mentioning. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
|
posted 01 August 2005 03:04 AM
profile
Ray, I've tried one of my D120-F JBL's (original - not reconed) and they are great if I wanted my Franklin to sound like a Fender 400. And it's the JBL speakers as I tried two D120-F's with my rack system and got the same "Fenderish" steel sound.I also tried one of my 1203 BW speakers and the standard speaker in the 112 works just as well and sounds just as good. It seems Peavey did an excellent job matching the speaker to the amp and application. |
Mike Brown
Member From: Meridian, Mississippi USA
|
posted 01 August 2005 08:32 AM
profile
This is a very interesting post. Eric, thanks for the compliments and input in the past. But, the logo is not changing! Ha!A manufacturer of "any" type of consumer product will find it difficult to determine if a product will be successful, unless the company already has a reputable name and has produced reputable products in the past. But sometimes that's not even a guarantee, but it is definitely an advantage. The key to a successful program is research and developement, which Peavey has established for over 31 years by sponsoring the St.Louis Steel Guitar Convention. Your comments and suggestions are very valuble to us in providing products like the Nashville Series of Amplifiers. I invite you to visit the Peavey Demo Booth at the upcoming St. Louis International Steel Convention. I look forward to meeting you. Sincerely,
Mike Brown
Peavey Electronics Corporation |
JERRY THURMOND
Member From: sullivan mo u.s.a.
|
posted 01 August 2005 03:34 PM
profile
I am very happy with my N112, but I had some problems playing a large gig, so I miked an every thing was fine, but in the future when I have a large gig I will take my N 1000. Jerry |
Ray Uhl
Member From: Riverside, Missouri, USA
|
posted 01 August 2005 10:17 PM
profile
Jack, thanks for the information. I won't even bother experimenting. No, I don't want a "Fenderish sound". I have a pre CBS Twin Reverb with a 15" JBL 4 ohm.....and that's not the sound for me. |
James Quackenbush
Member From: Pomona, New York, USA
|
posted 04 August 2005 07:31 AM
profile
I think that what folks call "loud" enough is a very subjective matter..... I've had people over to my studio , and played, and some said it was LOUD, and others said to turn up ....It also depends on the acoustics of where you are playing, and how crowded the room is.....Every amp has it's limitations.... The N-112 is designed for a certain purpose which it fill's very well ... When you start talking 15 inch speakers, you're now taking the N-112 away from what it was intended to do .... It's a small , light , 1-12 amp that will do small to medium gig's ( for the most part ) and sound great doing such gig's, and also work's well as a practice amp ....If you need to have more clean headroom , bottom line is that you either have to take the XLR out and go to the board, or run 2 -N-112's ....If you can't do that , then a more powerfull amp that can push a 15" speaker with plenty of clean headroom is in order .... You have to remember what the amp was intended to do .... The Roland Micro Cube has some great tones for recording, but would you take it to a gig without mic'ing it , or running it thru the board ??..... Not to take anything away from the N-112, but I found it was not powerfull enough for my needs
This is not to say it was not a great sounding amp, it really was a great sounding amp.....I needed to push more air, and needed more clean headroom...
I went to a Steel King and never looked back .....This filled MY need.....It may not do the same for you !!.....It's just one of the options out there.....Thank GOD, Mike Brown, and some of the other's in the industry that hear our voices, and come out with the great product's made for pedal steel .....Jim |
Mike Brown
Member From: Meridian, Mississippi USA
|
posted 05 August 2005 07:26 AM
profile
Thanks for the confidence in our products. |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
|
posted 06 August 2005 12:51 PM
profile
Richard Lee-I think your suggestion of a 175W with 12BW at 35 Lbs. would be a perfect mid sized amp. It would probably be a very big seller. I know that I would buy one....al ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ |
Tracy Sheehan
Member From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
|
posted 06 August 2005 07:59 PM
profile
I am repeating my self but years ago during the big band area i played in large western swing bands.We usually had 40 to 60 watt amps and played clubs that seated 1100 or more and did just fine.If i had to play in a band now that my Carter steel and NV112 woulden't cut it i would say bye bye which i have done a few times.It is just me i suppose,but the term most used these days does mean loud.No taste,just loud.Thats my opinion and i am stuck with it.lol.Tracy |
The Steel Guitar Forum
