Regarding the A team B teams in Nashville: I've been on many B team demos that, when I ended up in the A team studio, we would copy that B team arrangement to the letter and sometimes come up short. So the outstanding musicianship around here doesn't start and end at the A team's door. You'd be very surprised to know just how many B team arrangements you're listening to out there.

[This message was edited by Buddy Emmons on 05 July 2001 at 07:09 AM.]

Thanks Buddy

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Who in the hell is Steve Holy? Seriously

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You'd be very surprised to know just how many B team arrangements you're listening to out there.

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I've been the victim of that a couple of times (not in Nashville).

I should clarify. I don't believe that the A team guys are the only ones capable of cutting it. There are probably enough great musicians in Nashville to capably fill the A team a couple of hundred times. Nor do I believe that it is a good thing that Nashville road musicians rarely get to break into the studio like Gregg did.

My two major points were that:

1) you can't stay in the A team just based on politics, you need to deliver. None of us who aren't in the studio really knows, but I would bet the vast majority of current A team spends a lot more time trying to deliver the product rather than shmoozing.
2) for better or worse, the economics of the music business make it harder for a road player to break in. The producers are going to go for what they consider to be a 'safe' choice. And for a producer from LA, that safe choice would be somebody like Dan Dougmore rather than an equally good Nashville player who has been trying to break into the master scene for a decade or two.

And Dave, I am somewhat familiar with 'Dear John' having played that song with Jean Sheppard more times than I would care to remember. Although I did prefer that one to 'Slipping Away', which featured not me (her road player) but Pete Drake.

I agree with The Big E, in fact, experienced first-hand myself what an "A Team" is capable of doing to what would be considered a demo that had gotten completely reversed in the process. One day someone will have the balls and the means to distribute a wonderful piece of work such as Earl Erb's CD, which definitely should be heard, among many others. I for one full-heartedly encourage these talented people to roll the dice in spite of Mr. Big. After all, this is the USA, the land of freedom and opportunity.

I was very fortunate to have been included on some record dates when I wasn't really going for that. Had it been up to my quiet and passive approach, I'd never had gotten any studio work. I still believe that "if" studio work is what you want, even mixed with road work, and you spend the time (sometimes years) and effort (a lot), and given that you offer something worth listening to (I won't be the judge of that), you CAN get studio work.

I think we generally have a bitter view of the word "politics". Producers will hire who they like and who they think will help the project and ultimately, their own career. I do the same thing. I remember when Paul was breaking into sessions. He busted butt for a long time but never lost sight of what he wanted to do. He had his heartaches and turndowns....everyone doing it has. Dang..I've been turned down from producers and even for road jobs...still kinda hurts when I think about it. That's life, keep trying or go in another direction.

My point, not very well made, was that there were a lot more master sessions made back then than now, with less expectations of needing each and every album to sell a half million units. And the time was much more open, with many artists using selected road players on sessions, so it was easier for producers to make that decision.

Also, some of the heartbreaks can come from other players, not just producers. Bobby Black has told me some harrowing stories from his attempt to break into session work in the 70s, where the producer (Pete Drake) was on his side, but he got the cold shoulder like you wouldn't believe from the then A team.

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www.tyacktunes.com

[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 05 July 2001 at 05:24 PM.]

I was fortunate enough to do most all the steel work back in the 50's here in NYC at RCA Victor ,Columbia,Decca,etc,,,The union local 802 had nothing to do with anything other than take the dues and taxes.

There were a few very fine steel players back here then,,but some of them were not able to take "direction",,,I found that to be the key.

The well known players could read the charts etc,,,I was poor at reading,,if it were not for musicians like Tony Mottola, Al Caiola,George Barnes, Chet etc etc,,,I would have probably never made it,,,they helped me through charts that were not written for steel guitar.

I had heard many stories where the steel player told the arranger,,he was unable to play the charts as written,,,there is nothing more that an arranger wants to hear to hear that someone critisizes his work.

I sweat through many sessions and caused much overtime(the musicians loved me) just to get the parts right. I like many others were asked to play like Roy Wiggins,,,or J.Byrd or Speedy or Noel,,,if I could have done justice to any of those great players I would have .I didnt however tell the arrangers,,"well if you want Jerry Byrd,,,GO GET HIM,,,or any of the other negatives thrown at the arrangers.

The result?? when they saw I could take direction and had difficulty in reading the charts,,,I didnt "knock the arranger" I tried harder,,,,they then often would ask me if I had any of my own ideas...I said well,,I will try and asked them if they approved of my choice of fills or a part to play.

They accepted me for my ability to take direction & I got the job done,,,one time in particular I was recording with Vaughn Monroes orchestra,,,it was intimidating to see all those musicians around me,,,french horns,,,violin section, brass section and me with my fender triple neck guitar.

The arranger wrote a part for me,,,that was out of sight for the steel,,Tony Mottola played it for me and said ,,,can you play this?? I said Tony I cant,,he said neither can I if I were playing your guitar,,the arranger walked over and said ,,,Whats The problem?? I replied I think its me,,,he looked at me like??????
Vaughn Monroe walked over from the mike and said,,,,son,,,can you do something you feel will fit,,I said I would try,,but again said
there was nothing wrong with the original arrangemnent,,just that I couldnt get into it.

I played what I felt would fit. The arranger walked over and said,,,hey Jody,,,damm that does sound good,,Vaughn Monroe looked over and smiled at me. I did it,,,,hey listen to this,,on the playback all the musicians applauded me,,,I not only got them 1 and 1/2 hours overtime but they knew I was sweating it,,,I took direction and always found it easy after that.

Dave (her "current road/Opry player" of nearly 10 years. Imagine how many times I have played Dear John! At least I know the material.)

[This message was edited by Dave Robbins on 05 July 2001 at 09:48 PM.]

His reputation and knowledge of the recording
procedure convinvced those in charge of the session,,,,to let "me do it my way".

I was not a great player by any stretch,,but I was able to listen to what was around me & how and where I could find a place to do what was expected of me.

I did a session with Elton Britt years ago & Chet was the "leader" on the date,,,they had no written arrangements,,,Chet asked me what I would like to do for a solo part,,,and I did what I thought fit the tune as well as the theme & feeling at that moment.

Chet & all on the session thought it was one of the best I ever did,,,simple, short ,tasty
etc...I have to agree ,,I was good that day,
I never listened to any of the recordings I did back then,,,I wasnt in love with my self
It was my job,,no self admiration,,,
but did this back in the late 50's and heard it for the first time in 1988,,,,on the radio
played by a western swing radio show.

I was able to get a copy of the record & listen to it often now,,,I wasn't too bad back then,,,long stories are my specialty,,,I answered your question with a long story,,,but I get wrapped up sometimes
and forget myself....sorry to take so much space,,,the tune was on RCA Victor Elton Britt,,,"Lookin Around" was the title,,,,it was an appropriate title for me as well,,,as I was "lookin around" not to make an "ass" of myself,,,I was lucky that day.

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long stories are my specialty

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I love it! I don't know many steelers personally that talk up on the Forum so it is posts like yours that I find really interesting.

My original post was a simple question but I have learned a lot from all the replys. I have enjoyed this one.

Leroy

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I also have goals but before the brass ring gets there enjoy the ride. Remember why you started playing music to start with.

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Amen, brother.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

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So it is up to you "Leroy" to decide from the freedom of opinions expressed here on this forum.

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I really have had a lot of input for me to digest. I really learned much more than I had expected. (I especially learned how to pull peoples chains with a simple question. )

But I also understand how much hard disk space this thread is taking. b0b, it is ok by me to close it if you wish.

Thanks,

L...

[This message was edited by Leroy Riggs on 06 July 2001 at 12:07 PM.]

I have stayed away from the Forum for reasons
of my own,,,,however I want you to know that
I enjoyed particpating in your thread.

There should be no hard feelings,,,that is the reason I came back,,,to have fun and exchange ideas and opinions,,,I took the good advice from Jack Stoner,,Ricky Davis, Gene Jones,and many others to "come back" Herb Steiner as well encouraged me "Not To Quit"

How much can you pay me ,,,besides room & board,,,& do I have to listen to you play often?? I'll take less money if I dont have to listen to you play. I had a home all lined up till I read this thread,,,Im staying here.

Bobbe that town cannot have 2 legends if I come,,,you will have to "Move It On Over"
cause an "old dogs movin in " you are older than me though,,,but anyhow,,,let me know about the gig......Bobbe this is a great thread,,,how come you didnt start it??

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 06 July 2001 at 03:01 PM.]