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 Lloyd Green Tone Statement, (Page 3)
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| Author | Topic: Lloyd Green Tone Statement, |
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Jerry Roller Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA |
posted 07 March 2002 11:28 AM
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Intonation and tone are two different components but without really good intonation nothing else matters. Good intonation is the necessary foundation on which you can begin to develop great tone. Jerry |
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KENNY FORBESS Member From: peckerwood point, w. tn. |
posted 07 March 2002 02:17 PM
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thank you Jerry, just what I was talking about in my reply above, i just didn't put it in words like you did.  |
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Rich Weiss Member From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA |
posted 07 March 2002 06:27 PM
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Would Lloyd still be able to produce a good tone, even if he played on a crappy steel? Could his hands alone make it sing? By the way, one more T - Taste. |
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Jerry Roller Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA |
posted 07 March 2002 06:54 PM
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I would say yes Lloyd could produce a good tone on a "crappy" steel if the steel was capable of being tuned and stayed in tune. In fact, I would think Lloyd could produce a good tone on a one string guitar. Good tone is produced by making each individual note sound as good as it can possibly sound. Jerry |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 08 March 2002 10:02 AM
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You know he would still sound fine but don't kid yourselves, a better steel guitar will sound better and make him sound better also. It takes more than "good hands" for tone. It takes a combination of many things, A week link in the chain can throw you back to average. Lloyd is wonderful as is Buddy,Jerry,Sonny,Tommy and so on, but this "hands" thing only goes so far. I can (but won't) name some great players that do not get good tone, and never have, but could if they would play better sounding equipment. One of these players used to play Bigsby and his sound was fantastic, he still plays incredibly well but he is also famous for having "no tone". I can actually think of several players that fit this bill. Hands only work "up to a point". And my point is: it takes a good combination of several things to achive great tone. Just hands, no matter whose hands they are, can't do it all. I hear masters of tone that you all know play every week in my store and I hear them play severl kinds of guitars. They sound different on every guitar. Some great, some good , some suck. It takes a combination,It's nice to think that these genious players are majic and can do no wrong, however, think about it, there are a lot of really great players that arn't famous for there tone.(and visa versa) |
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Tom Mortensen Member From: Nashville TN |
posted 08 March 2002 12:18 PM
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Name one... |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 08 March 2002 12:24 PM
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You! |
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Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 08 March 2002 01:32 PM
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All I know is that there were people standing around with tears in their eyes the first time Lloyd Green took his refurbed LDG out to play in public. I have heard him live many times on his JCH (which is a great guitar) and I've heard him live with the Sho-Bud. His tone was totally different with the Sho-Bud. It was the Lloyd Green tone that I have always associated with his playing. |
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Dennis Detweiler Member From: Solon, Iowa, US |
posted 08 March 2002 01:44 PM
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OUCH! LOL! My unknown opinion of Lloyd's tone this year...He sounded MUCH better on his old ShoBud than previously on the JCH. Plus, I thought his tone was even BETTER than it was during the 70s...and on the same guitar. So maybe the pickups added a slight edge in quality. I don't see how he could top what he produced before, but he did it! So when does his next "comeback" CD hit the market? Bobbe..did you get Kelchen turned around and heading back home? That red ShoBud should sell quick. Mint condition. [This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 08 March 2002 at 09:17 PM.] |
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erik Member From: |
posted 08 March 2002 02:38 PM
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I think Lloyd Green is like Mr. Woopee. He goes to his cabinet for some tone and a whole ruckus breaks out.  [This message was edited by erik on 08 March 2002 at 02:41 PM.] |
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Tom Mortensen Member From: Nashville TN |
posted 08 March 2002 03:01 PM
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I thought so. |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 08 March 2002 05:12 PM
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Dennis, Mark is on the way back home with his beautiful Zum Steel. You have a nice friend there! Blue, tell Paula we said hello and to keep the muzzel on you! Ha! . |
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Jimmie Misenheimer Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A. |
posted 09 March 2002 02:19 PM
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Just settin' around reading this - just got my computer back - and I thought maybe I could "cough up $.02 just like anyone else, and it would be worth just that (execpt in Pa.) When I was a kid, for awhile you saw more "Sho-Buds" than anything else. I can remember "B.E." playing playing one, Weldon playing "Charolette" (I think) as a theme on the OLD Bill Anderson show, Hal using one on the early Wilburn Bros. Show, and Buddy Charlton using one with "E.T.". Then what seemed to be a short time later, so many people were playing an "Emmons". I was lucky enough to get around some of these "monsters" and one of my questions was always "Why the brand switch"? Everybody told me pretty much the same thing -- They liked the sound. Buddy charlton did say that he also liked the compact aspect of it. This always struck me as odd, because Hal didn't sound like Weldon, who didn't sound like Buddy, who didn't sound like the other Buddy, who - well, you get the picture. Tone means different things to different. people. I'll tell you this though - after YEARS of working at it, I've never been as happy with anything in the world as I am with the tone that I get out of my rack. They can talk all they want to about building "good sounding guitars", good processors, (reverbs, delays, choruses, and whatever), but IN MY OPINION, until you've got a good pre-amp, capable of delivering a good "warm, dry, rich" sound to your FX, and to your power-amp, you're not going to have alot. They're are a number of "pre-amps", and "pre-amp/FX units" available that in my opinion just can't do the job E.Q. wise. If you're looking for a nice rich tone, and your pre-amp won't deliver, you ain't gonna' get there. On the other hand, if you prefer the "thin" sound that is indeed very popular today, then most anything should work. while we're at it, to the people that claim that it's ALL in the hands -- If it REALLY was, then why in the hell spend 2 to 5 grand, and break your back luggin' that gear around??? Just go get you a used "Maverick" or something -- YOU still have the same hands... 32,and a Shriner
buddy, who didn't sound like |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 09 March 2002 03:56 PM
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Whew! |
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Dave Robbins Member From: Nashville, Tnn. USA |
posted 10 March 2002 07:54 AM
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What is tone?....."Soul!" The difference between good tone and bad tone is the difference between being an "artist" or a "mechanic!" To me, Buddy, Lloyd, Day, Byrd, Don Helms,Speedy, are examples of "artist." Dave |
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Rich Weiss Member From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA |
posted 10 March 2002 02:01 PM
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Jimmie M. Please tell me what kind of preamp you use. It's urgent! [This message was edited by Rich Weiss on 10 March 2002 at 02:03 PM.] |
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Jimmie Misenheimer Member From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A. |
posted 10 March 2002 10:19 PM
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Sorry - I just woke up! I've had, (And still have some of) most every brand of stuff like this you can get! I couldn't wait to get one brand of pre-amp that we've all heard of. I won't mention names, but this thing sounded like a Canadian Goose with a bad sinus infection. I swear, it sounded that "wet and muddy". I have a very good friend who is a terrific eletronics tech - the kind that KNOWS what something is supposed to sound like, and how it should work. I told him to "Tear this damn thing down and see if there's something wrong with it". He said "It will void the warranty". I said "P*** on the warranty - anything that sounds that bad may not have a warranty". He called me back in 2 or 3 days and said "Sorry son - it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do, and if it was mine, I'd get rid of it too!" I did! Sorry for the rambling. The two units in my rack are an "Ashley" Pre-amp, and an old "Pro-Fex 2". I THINK that the pre-amp is a model "G.P.-14". It says simply "Musical Instrument Pre-amplifier" on the front of it. No "bells 'n' whistles, just three bands of ACTIVE E.Q. I have found this combination to be better than anything else that I have ever tried. IN MY OPINION, you can get some great patches from a P.F.2 if you put the right type of signal in it in it to begin with. I will add that this rack works VERY well with my two Emmons Guitars (one formica W/metal necks, one lacquer w/ a metal neck), my Zum, my M.C.I., my Z.B., and even my old Fender 1000. I mention this last paragraph only to show how something that seems to work well will work well with most everything. My shop number is 1 800 822 4818. Anyone call me anytime. I'll help anyone any way that I can ('course if I can't do that any better'n I can spell or type, that may not be sayin' a hell of alot!!). Before I go, I was just thinking how much honest, truthful, facts and information some of us could tell if we didn't care to mention names - brand or people. WAIT!! DON'T GO THERE!! Say goodnight boy... 32 Degrees/ A Shriner Jimmie Misenheimer |
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James Winwood Member From: New York, New York |
posted 11 March 2002 08:51 AM
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I think...opinion of course...that tone lies in the overtones and the dynamics in between them. I like to think that the pedal steel is the most dynamic and wonderful stringed instrument in terms of producing overtones. And this is controlled by the hands and all the variables contained within. The tones that I have heard that are considered good are always full of overtones that jump out at you in a way that give that sparkle, the butter. And in turn the uniquness and identity. Overtone levels are very delicate and affect the timbre of the sound. Overtones coming from diffrent notes played simultaneously....give the sound its color. It's the equilibrium between the overtones that matters. The equipment can only optimize what the hands can do......Does this make sense? Its hard to talk about this without being too wordy. What I'm saying is,overtones and conscious control over them have a lot to do with this discussion. |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 11 March 2002 01:02 PM
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Now we're talkin'. Yes James, You are correct in my humble opinion. This is what I've been trying to say all along . Bobbe |
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Dennis Detweiler Member From: Solon, Iowa, US |
posted 11 March 2002 02:59 PM
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OK!..just listened to a few of Seizemour's tunes from his new CD. Nice touch and tone. Must be custom legs on the guitar? Your secretery has nice tone too! Kelchen got picked up for littering in Illinois! |
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Joe Goldmark Member From: San Francisco, CA 94131 |
posted 14 March 2002 08:45 PM
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I have to jump in with some thoughts. First for Lloyd, I loved your tone even when it wasn't warm and mellow as you describe it. The "Steel Guitar Sounds Of" LP was pretty brassy, but definitely had great tone. Also Buddy E. often talks bad about "the blade" when he had a guitar that was real trebely (sic), but it still sounded great to most of us. I'm of the school that says great tone is in the hands and feet and less in the axe. I've seen Jeff Newman play four different brands in a row and sound pretty similar on all (but I will say that changing your strings will always improve your tone). The next point is that your tone will vary incredibly to your ears (but not much to your audience), depending on what's around your amp (how close another musician is standing to your amp and the curtains, etc.), and how full the club is. You'll often sound pretty good during sound check in an empty club where the sound is bouncing back to you and your tone will sound nice and fat and clear. Then when the club fills up, the sound gets absorbed and just dies when it comes out of the amp. So much of tone is in how you're hearing it. Then, if you're getting good tone and sustain, it allows you to have a split second extra to think about your next notes and lets you play better and more confidently. Hope I haven't rambled too much. Joe |
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Neil Flanz Member From: Austin, Tx. |
posted 15 March 2002 01:09 AM
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Bobbe, I've been reading the replies to this thread with much interest and to me there seems to be some confusion between tone and touch. In my opinion tone in itself can be defined in many ways. For my particular taste I consider muddiness, poor tone. Others may love it that way. Some players prefer lots of highs while others may describe this kind of tone as being thin. Personally I like a nice combination of highs and lows without any muddiness but neither one of these describes touch which is what I think it's all about. To me touch is that wonderful combination of a beautiful vibrato with your left hand, a feather light touch with your right hand and knowing how to work your volume pedal to perfection so that what comes out is silk plus soul. That's what I look for when I listen to a steel player and what separates a great player from others. My guess is that this is what Lloyd is saying. Just my two cents worth. Hope to see you in Dallas. [This message was edited by Neil Flanz on 15 March 2002 at 01:13 AM.] |
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Smiley Roberts Member From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075 |
posted 15 March 2002 07:36 AM
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WHO SAID THAT?? ------------------ |
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Billy Johnson Member From: Nashville, Tn, USA |
posted 15 March 2002 07:39 AM
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Neil did,just now, didn't you hear him?? [This message was edited by Billy Johnson on 15 March 2002 at 07:40 AM.] [This message was edited by Billy Johnson on 15 March 2002 at 07:42 AM.] |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 15 March 2002 12:48 PM
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It still looks like, after me typing this out now for several years, that a lot of folks still don't understand that The "TONE" I'm talking about is the VOICE of the guitar. I dont care how much bass or treble is on it, that's not timbre, voice,quality etc. Twin brothers may look identical, but there will be differences in the way their voices sound. You can identify George Jones on record, no matter how much treble or bass is on the machine playing it. It is a quality that makes great "tone, timbre, voice" etc. The "VOICE" of the guitar is what's important,If it's bad, you can't fix it in the mix or anywhere else. If it's good, the quality is hard to hide also. Treble and bass can always be changed, timbre can not. I have heard most of these great (famous) players play good guitars and I've heard them play bad guitars, BELIEVE ME when I say they sound a lot better on good equipment. I'm making factual statements here, baised on front line experiences, 42 years of dealing directly with all pro players,in a high pressure, professional enviroment. It isn't up to me to try to educate everyone in this field, what I'm doing is offering my professional findings to those that care to listen. Bobbe Seymour |
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Jeremy Moyers Member From: Atlanta GA/ Nashville TN |
posted 15 March 2002 01:04 PM
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Very well said Bobbe. Jeremy |
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