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 Lloyd Green Tone Statement, (Page 1)
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| Author | Topic: Lloyd Green Tone Statement, |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 04:29 PM
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Lloyd e-mailed me this profound statement which I must pass on as I am In 100% agreement. Lloyd states: "Without tone(and it isn't subjective)there will never be a complete player.Tone requires intelligence,thoughtfullness and maturity. When I hear good tone I listen because I know this is a player who cares.It is something that can't be taught but instead comes from inside the musician".Lloyd Lloyd Green, You are a genius!!! Bobbe Seymour [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 04 March 2002 at 04:35 PM.] |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 04:34 PM
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Does anyone want to disagree with him? Not me! "Tone is not subjective". Stated by Lloyd himself, the king of tone. (the other king of tone!) I think this needs to be read over and over until it is 100% understood. There is a good and bad in tone.(naturally) Bobbe |
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Rick Garrett Member From: Tyler, Texas |
posted 04 March 2002 04:52 PM
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That means there IS hope for me.  Thanks for that post Bobbe and Lloyd. Rick |
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Dennis Detweiler Member From: Solon, Iowa, US |
posted 04 March 2002 04:52 PM
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OK! I agree!... Now!...for those with tone that wreaks...and discounting the right hand, guitar brand, pickup selection, which amp does Lloyd prefer and what are his amp settings? I like my tone 90% of the time and don't know why the weather, atmosphere, smoke, barometric pressure, floor covering, table clothes, body fat ratios, sound man, etc, likes to play mind and ear games with me?  DennisPS...I think steroid injections to the fingers would help? Fat fingers, fat sound? [This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 04 March 2002 at 04:54 PM.] |
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Larry Miller Member From: Gladeville,TN.USA |
posted 04 March 2002 04:58 PM
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I'm glad I got to see that e-mail "in person"!! |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 04 March 2002 05:34 PM
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Can somebody define 'Tone' for me? I'm serious! I think that there are lot of different ideas about what 'Tone' is. What are Lloyd and Bobbe talking about here? ------------------ |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 05:52 PM
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Timbre rObert! Quality, very pleasing qualitys,those that can never be gotten tired of, the sound that never grows irritating, a sound you develop a craving for, A tone that taste developes over many years of listening. Tone is appreciated by players that have been very discriminating over many years of being critical of what they are listening to. Not just a note, not just a pitch but a tone filled with many other quieter beautiful over tones, Rich, fat, warm,colorful,sexually satisfying, woops, maybe I've gone a little far, but I think you know what I'm saying, Want me to go on? Yes, there is a big difference in good and what we can percieve as bad in the timbre, quality,TONE. bOb, thanks for asking! |
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Rick Collins Member From: Claremont , CA USA |
posted 04 March 2002 05:53 PM
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Bobby Lee, I can't define tone (that is, put it into words) but I know it when I hear it. Describing tone is kinda like trying to tell someone how chocolate ice cream tastes;___it's an experience. Rick [This message was edited by Rick Collins on 04 March 2002 at 07:11 PM.] [This message was edited by Rick Collins on 04 March 2002 at 08:47 PM.] |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 05:58 PM
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Guess you might say, The quest for tone is a life long quest that should never be put aside, you do and you might as well "hang it up". The older a player gets with his playing , the more important tone becomes. Like Lloyd says, A player that takes pride in his tone will get my attention(not in those words exactly, but close). Bobbe |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 05:59 PM
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Rick, I just put it into words! Ha! Ha! |
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Dennis Detweiler Member From: Solon, Iowa, US |
posted 04 March 2002 06:11 PM
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I get the picture!! It's like Shania dancing in your room covered with chocolate ice cream??? Perfect tone! Silky highs, soft mids, smooth bottom! |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 04 March 2002 06:22 PM
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mmmmmmmmm.... Ice Cream...... Thanks for sharing Mr.Sizemore. I would think that "GOOD TONE" is not a universal constant. If a player has developed a Tone he likes, he's satisfied, and his musical voice has intergrity. Another may not like that Tone. That's OK. |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 06:34 PM
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Yes Dennis, as opposed to bOb or me doing the same thing,which is prettier? Her or us? Anyway Bobby Lee,This was a great question you posed. It seems many very good players and many good builders of fine guitars don't know either. This is a topic that needs much delving into by many more people than have in the past. Builders need to use there ears more than their eyes when designing a new guitar. Don't worry about "new tech" space- age construction,what it looks like or how light it is or what color your wife likes, Worry about how it sounds. It seems as though new builders today don't care or even give tone a thought, it's just "wow, magnesium rods,carbonfibre necks, WOW, how 'bout them titanium legs!!! Boy, these pedals sure phush reil gud! You talk to them and they never even mention tone, what the guitar will sound like, they don't care and probably don't know the difference anyway, they will reliy on sales to players that don't know either! Why doesn't someone design a new guitar that sounds great! Don't say it can't be done. Just an opinion from the "other side" of the coin. Bobbe |
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Richard Plummer Member From: nashville tennessee |
posted 04 March 2002 06:46 PM
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Maybe some of you agree with this and maybe not.I was listening to country radio the other day,and couldnt believe the steel ride that I heard.I believe it was a Shania song come on over,and the steel sounded like the guy was pumping the volume pedal for all it was worth with about 90 percent chorus.I believe that good volume pedal control is alot of the sound also.Honestly to me it sounded like crapola. |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 06:48 PM
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Joey Ace, remember your statement in twenty years. Your taste will change by then. Agreed? How much has it changed since you have been playing? How long have you been playing? How discriminating are you? You sound like a discriminating player. You do good posts anyway. The more years you concentrait on tone, the more important it will become to you. Joey,you have posed a great question in that a great tone doesn't have to sound exactly like a different sounding great tone, but there is such a thing as the majority of people agreeing that there is such a thing as bad tone (or a good tone) The old,Andy Devine as opposed to Vaughn Monroe voice(I didn't say I was young). For the younger guys, Bob Dillon as opposed to Perry Como, Skeeter Davis to Anita Kerr, well you know. Good statement though Joey. ('yall know who I am) J. Rittland Krandalmyer III |
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Dennis Detweiler Member From: Solon, Iowa, US |
posted 04 March 2002 06:53 PM
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And Buddy's tone is different than Lloyd's, but Shazam to both!!! Chocolate ice cream just oozes from those guitars and squirts from them amps. [This message was edited by Dennis Detweiler on 04 March 2002 at 06:56 PM.] |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 06:57 PM
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Richard Plummer, I have never agreed with you more. Good volume tech. is so very important also.This is another topic though that falls under the heading of "execution of playing", not tone. You can tell how inexperienced a player is by the volume pedal "pumping". Yes Richard, youv'e hit another topic of intrest. Good luck on your new Emmons, You'll love tone! J, stanley Scattergood, esq. |
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BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 04 March 2002 06:59 PM
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Dennis, your making me hungry!! I gotta' go! Sir Robert Eatesalott (Knight, 1st class) |
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Bob Carlson Member From: Surprise AZ. |
posted 04 March 2002 07:08 PM
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We all have Tone. Mine gets better the more and longer I play steel. But it's faaar from being as sweet to the ear as Lloyds...and many others whom I won't even begin to name. If I keep playing my steel, I know it will get better, but when you don't start playing the steel until you're 65 years old, I also know it will never be Pro quality. Even after a lifetime of playing standard guitar. But i'm satisfied with my tone, because when I started, I don't know for sure what you'd call that noise I was makin. But it's beginning to sound like it might be a steel guitar. Bob. [This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 04 March 2002 at 07:22 PM.] |
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Rick Collins Member From: Claremont , CA USA |
posted 04 March 2002 07:16 PM
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My tone is kinda like chocolate ice cream, but with nuts. Rick |
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John Steele Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada |
posted 04 March 2002 07:23 PM
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Bobbe and Lloyd, two guys that know alot.(!) Lloyd says tone cannot be taught. Bobbe says there is no alternative to learning about tone. (except bad tone) If tone can be learned but not taught, you have nobody's conclusions but your own to base your opinions on... that makes it subjective. But tone is not subjective. I think this is an interesting thread, but...the semantics are making it hard for me to tune out the beats. Sometimes I think the guy that nailed it was Joe Jackson, when he said: Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." -John |
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Bill Llewellyn Member From: San Jose, CA |
posted 04 March 2002 07:23 PM
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Tone is timbre. Sounds good to me! But what do y'all think are the individual components of tone, in order of importance? Here's an example: Pick angle ------------------ |
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Bob Carlson Member From: Surprise AZ. |
posted 04 March 2002 07:26 PM
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Rick, Are you trying to say you have male tone?. I ain't gonna sign that. |
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erik Member From: |
posted 04 March 2002 07:34 PM
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Lloyd Green says concerning tone: quote: And i will contend that a person does not have to be an accomplished musician to indentify good tone. |
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Bobby Boggs Member From: Pendleton SC |
posted 04 March 2002 07:47 PM
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Sorry I was off topic in my original post. [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 06 March 2002 at 08:07 PM.] |
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Roy Thomson Member From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada |
posted 04 March 2002 08:07 PM
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I think we can draw a parallel with great singers. They were born with great voices, great tone. Of course the voice has to be developed through training etc. but the point is they were born with that certain potential for greatness. You know them when you hear them. In a way I think the same principle applys to steel guitarists, as well as other instruments. The good news is that we do not all have to be great as the greatest to be successfull or to get the most out of our lives. Reach for a high standard in your playing, work at it and let the "chips" fall where they may. |
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Jerry Erickson Member From: Atlanta,IL 61723 |
posted 04 March 2002 08:13 PM
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I've been listening to Roger Miller's "A Trip in the Country" LP pretty regularly for about 26 years give or take a few. Buddie's tone on that some of the tunes of that album sometime makes me go ???,maybe it was the recording engineer. But,what he's playing and the songs he's playing on make me hit the replay button a lot. I admit,that in a live situation, good tone(tone that I find enjoyable) is going to make me want to listen to that person for a longer period than a person's tone that I don't enjoy. End of rant. |
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Dave Birkett Member From: Oxnard, CA, USA |
posted 04 March 2002 08:35 PM
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When Bird first came on the scene, his tone, the sound he got from his horn, was pilloried. |
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Mike Weirauch Member From: Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe |
posted 04 March 2002 08:52 PM
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Who is Lloyd Green? |
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Dave Horch Member From: Frederick, Maryland, USA |
posted 04 March 2002 09:13 PM
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I smell ribs! Boy I love that smell! Whatcha like? Wet or dry? Seriously, "tone" is subjective and so not up for debate. You either like it or not. It's 90% in the hands of the player, IMO. I've swapped pickups, changed amps, plugged and unplugged outboard gear, until I made my ears happy. At the moment, they're happy, but man I'd love some of those ribs right now! |
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Al Marcus Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA |
posted 04 March 2002 09:23 PM
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Roy Thomson- There is nothing wrong with your tone...al |
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Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA |
posted 04 March 2002 09:25 PM
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Weirauch, all I can say is that it's a good thing you're comfortable around dead people...  |
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Kenny Davis Member From: Great State of Oklahoma |
posted 04 March 2002 09:53 PM
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I have to agree with erik about a person not having to be a musician to identify good tone. My Dad who is 74, and NOT a musician, is a perfect example. In the last several months he has surprised me with certain observations: While watching Pam Tillis on the Opry, he commented on how good the steel sounded..."sounds like a Sho~Bud" he said. Sure enough, the camera proved him correct! The last weird comment was the other night when Hank Jr. was on. I asked him if he saw that pretty black Pro II...He says "yeah I did, but it sounded more like an Emmons than a Sho~Bud". I was thinking the same thing - |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 05 March 2002 12:39 AM
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I hate to come along here and rain on this beautiful parade, but I still have a question about what's being said here. One famous player says "tone" comes from "inside the musician". Another famous player says "builders need to use their ears". I think one is talking playing technique, and the other is talking the sound quality of the instrument. I still want to know... Who (besides me, that is And... What are the sucky-tone guitars? If it's not "subjective" (as I contend it is, by the way), let's get it out in the open and be done with this "tone thing" once and for all!!! I eagerly await someone's answer! |
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Martin Weenick Member From: Lecanto, FL, USA |
posted 05 March 2002 02:03 AM
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You can hear the "tone" the very first time Lloyd touches the strings on the Lloyd and Tommy " E-9th " video. Thats not the guitar or the amp, or anything else. Thats just Lloyd. I would have known it was Lloyd if I had been in another room, although at first I probably would have thought he was playing his Sho-Bud. It definately comes from within. Why cant I do that? ------------------ |
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Ernie Renn Member From: Brainerd, Minnesota USA |
posted 05 March 2002 02:20 AM
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I disagree slightly with Lloyd. I believe tone is subjective. To each and everyone's ears. No two people hear it exactly the same way. If they did we'd all sound exactly the same. (Which obviously we don't.) To me, (and my ears,) there is no other tone like Buddy Emmons playing on an Emmons guitar, (a push-pull or a LeGrande III.) To me that is the tone I'd like to hear coming out of my amplifier. On the other side of the tone coin, I don't really care for Red Rhodes or Sneaky Pete's tone. I'm not saying it's bad, (they've played some fantastic stuff,) I'm saying for me it's not as pleasing to the ear. Proper technique (according to who? Jeff Newman? Joe Wright?) can be taught, but proper technique isn't all there is to having a good tone. It surely helps, but isn't the end all. Once again, not everybody has the same technique. Good thing or we'd all sound like each other and have nothing to work for or talk about here... ------------------ [This message was edited by Ernie Renn on 05 March 2002 at 02:25 AM.] |
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Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 05 March 2002 04:50 AM
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Ok I'll chime in... Tone: Webster says: Tone in my weak opinion, starts in the head..goes all the way down your neck to your chest into your heart then back up to your arms and then down to your hands and is transfered to the Instrument then on out to the amp where it is heard by your ears and transferred back to your heart and soul where the cycle is either accepted or rejected! Of course you need a quality Instrument to make the transfer but if the tone doesn't start upstairs there ain't gonna be no transfer ! The Instrument ( thats why it's called Instrument) is just a tool to get your tone, feeling, music expression etc..into a venue that can be heard by the minions. The Steel is no different than any other Instrument in this equation other than the player needs to be much more disciplined in the transfer technique, hence bar and picks. There I said it..what did I say, Loyd ( and others of course )is living proof of knowing what tone he wants and transfering it to his Instrument.
Don't do that on Steel.. TP |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 05 March 2002 05:17 AM
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.......(tone)is it like listening to James Earl Jones and Junior Samples recite the Gettysburg Address? Same words, but........ |
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Larry Behm Member From: Oregon City, Oregon |
posted 05 March 2002 05:31 AM
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Can you get good tone on a 2 x 4 with 10 small pieces of barbed wire and a 15 watt amp and a 2,000 ohm pickup? If your answer is no then Bobbe's comments have merit becaue you need to start with equipment capable of giving you better tone. If your anser is yes then you must think that 90% of tone comes from the hands and only 10% from the equipment. What has been missed, in part here, is a player who plays with expression, emotion no mather the thickness of their sound. Day did and his tone was thin. Sneaky Pete does and Red did and they had rather thin tone, but look at the ideas, emotion etc. Play 6 different records by Buddy, the tone is different on every one, but the expression, emotion etc is the same. That is what I gravitate to. Just a few more ramblins |
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Jerry Hayes Member From: Virginia Beach, Va. |
posted 05 March 2002 05:50 AM
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I believe that tone should vary according to what song or type of music you're playing. Take Ralph Mooney's tone! For the old Buck, Merle, or Waylon stuff it was the cream of the crop. Then in Jazz I always though that Chalker's had a little too much bottom for me but I enjoyed it because it worked for the style of music he was into. I try to change my tone to whatever I think sounds best with the song, sort of like what a guitar player would do when using his toggle switch to change pickups. In closing there are all kinds of tone and I like a whole lot of them. I prefer the west coast stuff but that's the old home front and what I learned first. ------------------ |
Bobby Lee - email: 
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