Paul Franklin said:.....

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I'll wager that Anderson and Julian probably played more of the earliest steel shows than anyone else.

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I believe that the first Steel Guitar show was, and Scotty will verify this, the one that I promoted in Muskegon, Michigan in 1975.
This was the first show, to my knowledge, that featured using a steel guitar in a teaching/showcase format, traveling around the country.
Julian Tharpe was the steel guitar player that played that first show along with the late great Jimmy Bryant.
The next year, 1976, I promoted several of these steel guitar shows from Michigan through Indiana and Texas.
Julian and Maurice Anderson were on all of them along with Buddy Emmons, Doug Jernigan and Curly Chalker.
They were picked at that time because they all were the ones that were suggested to me, mainly because of their great talent at playing the pedal steel.
At the 1976 Cavalcade Of Guitars show in Dallas, Texas, Julian played on the same stage with some of the greatest jazz guitar players in the world......Tal Farlow, Howard Roberts, Bucky Pizzarelli, Herb Ellis, Les Paul and also with the great jazz bassist, Slam Stewart and drummer Louis Bellson.
When I approached these great jazz guitarists, after the concert, about doing a solo album with one of the steel players, everyone of them, except for Les Paul, asked about Julian Tharpe.
Herb Ellis and Tal Farlow also mentioned Maurice Anderson.
Of course, they all knew of Buddy Emmons and told me how much they admired him and enjoyed playing the concert with him and would love to record with him but they were also so impressed by the other steel players on the concert that I didn't have to ask them twice about doing a solo album with a steel guitar player. Any on them from that concert.
In closing I must say that it is my opinion that the great jazz guitarist, Django Rinehardt, would be in anyones Hall Of Fame today, not because of his teaching ability and for promoting the guitar but rather because of his incredible talent. Django, like Julian, also had his bad moments but the bottom line was his talent.
It is also my opinion that Julian belongs right up there with Django and it should be a 'given' that he be elected into the SGHOF.
Thanks,
Dave A. Burley

[This message was edited by b0b on 09 November 2004 at 08:35 AM.]

I think one of the things about the best of our craft is that they often become tragic figures.

Certainly his untimely death was a tragedy.

Now we can ne'er know whether or not he believed that he should be in the HOF.

Maybe he wouldn't want to be.

EJL

Sorry you missed the Tharpe/nomination/HOF thread. Your comments would have been welcomed on Tharpes behalf. I don't think the thread should have been closed, but I abide by what bOb says.

The "formal" nomination that Tom Bradshaw claims never happened seems to have happened. Even in the thread he makes he statement that Tharpe was never "formally" nominated. Fred Shannon post a copy of his "formal" nomination for Tharpe that he sent in to the HOF in 2003----anyone who read the thread can make up their mind as to the integrity of one of the actual board members of the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame. He denies the actual nomination occured, and then you get to read it! Go figure.

As for the contributions of Tharpe, his contributions and his musicianship on the pedal steel guitar far outweighs what he is villified for.

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Regardless of your position about Julian (who looted the Nashville Steel Guitar Club, among other misbehaviors toward steel
guitarists)...

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I'm sure some other people probably received the same e-mail, but I believe it was sent only to those who posted in another thread here on the Forum about Julian.

I miss Julian a lot. A whole branch of PSG development seemed to die with him. He was as individual as Buddy and Curly and Reece and Zane and Paul. He was going in his own direction in developing a universal tuning that looked to be really powerful. With very little backing he forged ahead with his dedication to the instrument. I believe he could have been anything he set his mind to and could have made a lot more money but he chose to dedicate his life to the PSG.

Julian's ability to play in any type of band and with or without a guitar player was phenominal. His control of dynamics was phenominal. He had a real grasp on all types of music. The album "Take Your Pick" that b0b mentions is a good example.

Julian was uniquely…..Julian! He was a marvelous player and a dear friend who deserves his rightful place in the history of steel guitar. His contributions are legendary.

Bill H….Julian has been nominated many times but to no avail because of a personal agenda/crusade based on unsubstantiated rumors. It is no mystery as to why it is said by a board member that Julian was never nominated. Doing so will provide an “out” should the public demand proof of the accusations held against Julian and they can’t be verified.

Donny H….Unsolicited emails and unsubstantiated rumors made by individuals who dwell in the shadows while perpetuating a personal agenda, is a consistent path of those pursuing an agenda who are afraid of the truth.

Charles C….Those who remain in the shadows and make accusations while desperately trying to solicit others will learn that truth always prevails.

Jerry C….No one to my knowledge has seen proof of anything. I believe those who have passed on deserve the same right as those of the living, and that is to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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If it's not, this might be a good time to hear the truth..."the rest of the story", as it were. People will draw their own conclusions, anyway.

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Donny, I'd like to hear the "other side".

Maybe these "personal agendas" can be specified instead of implied as being nefarious without any substantiation, or sued into silence.

Why would people of reasonably good public reputation, make things up, withstand public ridicule for "smearing the dead", lawsuits, and in general, aggravation way beyond anything I'd ever put up with, just to get "their side" out?

Us construction workers want to know..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 09 November 2004 at 07:06 PM.]

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If character in no way should matter, or "actions or ommissions" as described in the HOF charter are not important, nor should they be, to the HOF, then that's one thing.

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[This message was edited by Jerry Clardy on 09 November 2004 at 07:09 PM.]

That's where I got it.

"Proof of same"?

I'm taking it that you mean in a Court of Law.

In which state is the lawsuit being planned?

Texas?

I'd have to look the specific state guidelines.

They're all slightly different.

Louisiana is kind of hard to make sense of with their Napoleanic Code integration into some of their laws..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 09 November 2004 at 07:13 PM.]

I believe that's in The Bible.

There's no "charge".

It's free.

He's dead.

EJL

Those wishing to dig up his life's actions, especially if they are his friends, should probably do so in private, lest they come up with something that would tarnish his memory.

I knew NOTHING about Julian's life nor would I ever have thought anything but good things about him until people started complaining about the HOF "ignoring him".

Now they're trying to "make people prove" that he was less than perfect".

Sadly their requests are being answered.

Soon the threats or implied threats of lawsuits will start flying.

It's a sorry thing.

Let the guy rest.

Buy his records.

I've got a very good mind, and a sterling sense of impartial justice.

I'm wasting it at the moment.

I hope you people get it figured out.

I'm busy changing my strings and filing down some burrs on my changer fingers from three thousand gigs on a tired old ProIII.

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I Cor 6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another.

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Now go and sin no more...

My Namesake and co-mentor Don West didn't do everything perfectly (and didn't finish his life out rolling gold watches down main street).

Neither did Danny Shields, Chuck Wright, Richard Edge.

World Class players If there ever were any.

If I should pitch a bitch about why they aren't in the HOF, and more than one of them deserves it for their playing, believe me, I'D be the one responsible for besmirching their memories.

I don't want to hear every little nasty or drunken thing that any of them might have done in the course trying to "air out and sanitize" their public image.

Some things are best let go and trying to spread the GOOD stuff.

When I listen to the music, I don't even think of the person.

Lots of times I'd rather not know anything about them.

Thanks for the exchange.

Basically we're on the same page, Jerry, if not the same paragraph.

Gotta run or I won't get this thing strung.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 09 November 2004 at 08:31 PM.]

I have been part of the nomination process for one particular individual, almost 12 pages, and that was just the bio, setting the artist into a historical context.

Some are simpler, but I'd be interested to see exactly what was used for a nomination.
I'm not anti-Tharpe, and I suspect some poeple thought I was when I jumped in on that other topic where Scotty and others were getting some pretty poor misinformed abuse. (in my humble opinion)

I wanna see more, like I said Dave is one his way, how about a date, for every album, a listing for every album, some testimonials by players who got them at the time, or dug him later.
Julian played in the road bands of Ray Price and Barbara Mandrell, anyone got pics, quote, heard live stuff?..

Pull it all together, post it here, and send it to the HOF, which I might add, gets plenty of other nominations each year.
Just coz ya get a nomination done, doesn't mean they'll get in, and it doesn't have to even be the 'big bad conspiracy' scenario.

Just so you are aware. The information that Jim Molberg is currently pasing out regarding MSA is riddled with falsehoods. As you may have read on another thread (now closed), I challenged him to join us in a mediation to determine in the truth or falsity of his allegations. He has yet to accept.

Tom Bradshaw's post in response to my message to Molberg derided that offer as "gambling." Molberg apparently didn't want to speak for himself and "put up or shut up" as my post was so eloquently characterized by Fred Shannon.

In fact, mediation is a recognized form of dispute resolution. Secondly, "gambling" implies a wager on an uncertain outcome with a chance to win or lose. Since we would have no chance of losing and Molberg would have no chance of winning, there is no element of gambling.

The Molberg writings are symptomatic of some of the problems noted elsewhere on this thread. Someone with an axe to grind peppers the steel community with false accusations.

In Julian's case, there are apparently accusations that are based in rumor and innuendo but no court findings. One has a hard time defending oneself against rumor. In Julian's case, he is unable to even attempt it.

In the case of Molberg's current writings about MSA the infomation, as I said, is riddled with falsehoods. To date, Molberg has not accepted my proposal. Knowing what I know, and knowing what I'm sure he knows, I'm quite certain he never will. That ought to speak loudly about his allegations. But, the offer as written is still open to him.

To paraphrase an adage: "If the facts are on your side, then pound the facts. If the facts are not on your side, then pound the table.

Molberg continues to pound the table.

But, it is beginning to appear that many others have had enough of the rumor mill that has long plagued the community. Maybe that will lead to positive change.

Best Regards,

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This crap that someone posted about where is the proof that Julian did anything, such as teaching books and etc., is exactly that...A bunch of Enquirer style crap.

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What I actually said was...

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Just out of curiosity, does Julian fit...or has he made contributions under all, or most, of the 7 categories mentioned at the SGHOF site? No doubt he was a great and innovative player, but did he really contribute in all the "required" areas? My only awareness of him was as a club player, and the few albums of his that I have. I'd like to hear something about his touring, backing major artists, teaching, instructional materials, promoting, conducting concerts, etc., since these are all mentioned in the nomination application form.

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If you're going to "paraphrase" what I say, at least get it close, please!

I don't know much about Julian, but many here speak highly of him. I simply asked (in as nice, and as an objective way as possible) for some more information on what all he had done to deserve such attention. I wanted to know what else he had done that I wasn't aware of.

When I got a derogatory e-mail about him, I was simply curious as to what all the "secret hoopla" was about. (I'd heard it before.) That's why I posted the guy's statement, and that's why I gave it no credibility when I posted it! But obviously, you and a few others failed to notice that. (No one told me there were things you're not supposed to know and things you're not supposed to ask about.)

I have no personal agenda here on the Forum. I have nothing to do with the SGHOF. I also have nothing for sale, I work for no company or store, and I endorse no one's products, (though I have bought most of the CD's b0b has for sale). I joined the Forum only to learn what I could, to share what I know and have experienced from over 40 years of playing steel guitar, and to offer a different viewpoint, sometimes.

And now I realize...why so many just read...and refuse to post here.

I'm finished.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 10 November 2004 at 05:53 PM.]

I don't care how many ways you slice it, how famous you are, how good you play, how "caught up in it" you got, how many times you were "absolved in a court of law", or how many times Jesus saved your soul. Especially not how many of your friends are doing time in prison on a "bum rap".

I hear people using all kinds of excuses for "keeping the money", "padding the time card", not telling the whole truth, or not standing up for something you know is right. etc etc,. They use "the steel guitar community" here sometimes, I suppose, their religion, the "greater good", or their wife and kids. In my 50 years, I've heered durn near all of them..

If what you did was right, it was right.

If what you did was wrong, it was wrong.

The guy in the mirror know for sure. Look at him.

Don't talk about how "other people have no business talking about anything".

Who are you to decide what people talk about?

They ALL have a right to decide what right and wrong is. It's a responsibility that more and more seem to be ducking in these times.

Also. don't look for winning a victory in a court of law taking away "right or wrong". That's not it's function if you take the time to read the fine print.

How embarrassing for Mr Tharpe watching all this from purgatory.

I never, until this thread, knew a single negative thing about him, nor did I wish to.

That's the way it works though...

A lot of it really went for nothing, didn't it Julian?

Look at these people...

They are your peers..

Maybe even your friends

Geez! Robert, although this is not in the full context of your last post, is this how you reallly feel, and you from the 'Show Me State'?

I'm assuming this is an "assumption" on your part, and you really have no real "proof" (now there's a word a lot of folks don't like) of this statement, referring to Julian's life. But if you do have such "proof", I would appreciate your emailing it to me.

After having studied under Julian for too short a time, and he were still alive, I believe I can tell you where he would tell a lot of folks "---where they could stick it."

However,what I really want to say is if the quote is an "assumption" and not "proof", a lot of people can be lead to believe the statement as gospel, gasoline will be added to the fire, and another individual's reputation is beginning to be sullied.

No matter what anyone wants to believe, Julian Tharpe contributed a hell of a lot to the Pedal Steel Guitar as we know it.

Further, you can damn well rest assured my last nomination to the hall has been made. It aint worth the time, effort, or the abuse one has to endure to "justify" one's opinion.I honestly believe most, but not all, the individuals in this hall belong there, but it is my right to choose, but no one single person has the right to choose who is not. There are several Players, Teachers, and Manufacturers that need to be, but never will.

Not that it makes a bit of difference, but I don't need a few guys meeting in "executive session" to tell me how good or bad a steel player is, onstage or off. But more than one Board Member has told us that this is a "private" organization and in so many words, the Board can pretty well do what they want. Not with my opinion, they can't. I don't have to participate. It appears to me some one is implying "You don't like it, start your own damned hall." Have I got news for them, I ALREADY HAVE, and strangely enough I didn't need their help.

Like Herb Steiner, this will certainly be my last post on this sordid mess, but I qualify the statement to reserve the right to proceed with my life, whatever that means.

Edited to add: I would like to be a fly on the wall when some people I know are told they have been inducted into the hall, and it's a certainty that I'll never be asked to participate and buy a personal plaque for over 700 bucks to hang on my wall. Now hang your hat on that,and ask the board what it means. I know one person who is 700 dollars richer today. UnAmerican as hell, LOL.

fred

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The spirit be with you!
If it aint got a steel, it aint real

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 11 November 2004 at 12:42 AM.]