I just couldn't keep in that dimension long enough to keep my body nourished. I was wasting away to succubal nothingness.

I run out of adrenaline, and endorphins now more easily at 52 ( midnight tonite).

However-

I've still got plenty of Gall.

The above is true ONLY if you don't listen to the playback the next day!

It helped me play better.

I haven't used it for 18 years, and I missed it much more at first..

The times I took "bennies" they just helped me make mistakes faster..

Alcohol, the WORST drug got dumped from my menu the year before I started taking money for playing.

Thankfully.

I know for a fact that some people play better after a couple beers or a shot. I'm just not one of them.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 22 May 2005 at 04:27 PM.]

EJL

I remember being fifty too!

I used to take my breaks by blowing one.
Then there was the time I came out of the ride and forgot what song we were playing.
Then there was the time I left my body--in a large hall--and came back with all the other band members looking at me. Well, it was fun while it lasted....

quote:

---

a sound effect that's come to reflect the Stupid, Redneck, Western Step 'n Fetch-it Trailer Trash, Beer Drinking, Dope Growing, and now Meth Lab Engineers that a lot of us have become or have tacetly supported over the years.

---

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'95 Mullen D-10 w/ E66 (E9) & Mullen (C6) pups - It's still one smooooth puppy!
'04 Artisan S-6 - "The Home Depot scrap pile refugee". - Photo page: http://www.davidhorch.com/music
Perfecting a sound effect that's come to reflect the Stupid, Redneck, Western Step 'n Fetch-it Trailer Trash, Beer Drinking, Dope Growing, and now Meth Lab Engineers that a lot of us have become or have tacetly supported over the years. (E.W.)

quote:

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Play these instruments with these tunings against any good guitar player, violin/fiddler, and add a piano, and you've got a bunch of people that are looking at eachother while these out of tune contraptions are "weaving their magic", shaking their heads, and then straightening up with a "fine with me" nod of approval when the steel player looks at them like dog that's dropped a newspaper on the porch...

---

I think I'd use that for a sig, but if too many of us start using EJLs material, he might start charging us...

You're wasting yourself on us, Eric, you should be writing poetry, or fiction, or philosophy or something that hasn't even gotten a label yet, you could name it yourself.

Happy Birthday, Eric.

Any of my nonsense can be passed on at any time.

That's probably why I have to realise that it might not be harmless after all..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 24 May 2005 at 08:49 AM.]

I understand that some find this music hopelessly crude. But even with all this pitchiness, I still like this record. Yes, it does detract, but I don't think it negates the value of the package. The version of "Hot Rod Lincoln" here is still, IMO, the defining version. I think the steel pitchiness lends a lot to the out-of-kilter feel on that cut, and I've always emulated that when playing this tune (whether simulating the sirens/whines on guitar or doing them on steel). Perhaps it wasn't done intentionally, but who are we to say?

Let me finally say that I have listened to real old barrelhouse piano, early acoustic and electric blues, old-time hillbilly music, and the like for a long time. I'll guarantee you that much of it was a lot more pitchy than this. Out of tune pianos, guitars, banjos, fiddles, you name it. Further, the old 78 rpm records had plenty of pitch variation. Does this render all early music like this as garbage, not worthy of modern listeners? Does every piece of worthwhile music have to hold up to Carnegie Hall standards?

The steeler is like the drummer: a bit of a character in a world by himself. There is no standard sound for his instrument, every detail is a personal choice based on what he thinks sounds good, which depends very much on his personality and musical tastes. Every steel guitar is a custom instrument, suited only to the person playing it. One never hears of a classical musician playing steel guitar, or a steel guitar playing with an orchestra. There is no cross fertilization like there is for other instruments, no experimenting with borrowed themes, no display of talent in different styles. Steelers do not play L'Art Du Violon, although I have heard it on almost every other instrument.

quote:

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Something I have noticed is that steel guitar players are performers, but not necessarily musicians. They talk endlessly about tunings and intonations, but the music is just a matter of "licks".

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Nice blanket generalization!

This may be what you have experienced in your own little piece of the world, but it sure isn't what I've experienced in mine!

Sure it can apply to a certain percentage of musicians of any instrument. But to say "steel guitar players are...."

You've got nerve.

Not musicians? Lick Players?

I'll just forget the rest of what I'm thinking and leave it at this:

Speak for yourself.

"Stravinsky: Firebird Suite" - Mike Perlowin
"Jazz by Jernigan" - Doug Jernigan
"3now4" - Dave Easley
"Calcutta Slide Guitar" - Debashish Bhattacharya

The first three are available here on the forum: http://steelguitarmusic.com/music.html, the last at any source like Amazon.com.

When you've come to an understanding of even a fraction of the geneses of the "licks" on these, you will have rendered yourself incapable of saying things like:

quote:

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Every other instrument has a vast pool of influence from various countries, styles, artists, and the sciences. Steel guitar has only the Hawaiian and western histories, and is only loosely influenced by electronics.

---

quote:

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One never hears of a classical musician playing steel guitar, or a steel guitar playing with an orchestra. There is no cross fertilization like there is for other instruments, no experimenting with borrowed themes, no display of talent in different styles.

---

quote:

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I am an average non-musician

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Yes there are a lot of steelers who like their particular nitch.

But that can easily be said for the majority of guitarists, piano players, fiddlers etc.
Far from all play in all generes available to their instruments.

I will personally try and cross polinate any style to another to at least see how it works together.
I knopw there are others here in the foru8m like that too.

Perhaps Vern is pointing to the fact that the pedal steel, in its relative infancy, lacks the backlog of repertoire from which to draw that piano and lute have.
Steel players are a breed apart; most musicians in a contemporary ensemble have some understanding of the other instruments with the exception of the steel. Thus the steeler is out there on his own, to an extent.

Give it another 50 years and see what develops. The music will evolve. Steel is not a flash in the pan.

------------------
James R.Hall
MSA S10 & MSA D12

His observations are given legitimacy by the very examples offered as refutation. To point up the same tired arguments from Firebird to Jernigan is tantamount to admitting defeat. I’m not dissing those efforts BTW.

If he needs his thingy thwacked, it’s because he’s drifting off topic.
And that “crying sound” he referred to was likely me listening to that BAAAD steel playing.

Thank you for the advice, and I will get those CDs.

After mulling this over, I see that I was in fact out of line to post such a strongly worded opinion while I'm still the new guy on the board. And, as you so adroitly pointed out, I don't have any experience in the subject. I ask you all to forgive my lapse of manners.

This is part and parcel of the problem (although nothing could've helped in the case of the thread's subject).

[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 24 May 2005 at 08:55 AM.]

quote:

---

...quote, "I played a lot better when I was stoned"....unquote...
The above is true ONLY if you don't listen to the playback the next day!

---

I'm tempted to go with Gene on this when considering the issue in general. However, and that's an observation that I have done myself, not on steel yet, but on bass and guitar.
If you, like all of us will have tried at some occasions, find yourself in an environment where the sound/mix REALLY stinks (for whatever reason), it's much easier to feel good about what you're doing when your own impression is somehow sweetened by a couple 'a reefers.

When you enjoy the sound as at least acceptable even when it in reality stinks, your motivation will rise, enabling to play much better than you would have done when subjected to the sonic havoc clean. Because of that you will feel much better, play better, make a more relaxed impression on the audience etc., which in turn will divert the audiences focus on the audible impression of the concert.

Just my two cents here. I'm not in the habit of playing intoxicated on a regular basis.

------------------
Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

[This message was edited by Klaus Caprani on 24 May 2005 at 08:57 AM.]

"There is no standard sound for his instrument, every detail is a personal choice based on what he thinks sounds good, which depends very much on his personality and musical tastes. Every steel guitar is a custom instrument, suited only to the person playing it."

could be made as well about electric guitar also. I don't think it's really true about either. There are more-or-less standard setups on both, but there is a very large variation in the pallette of both steel and electric guitar sounds, depending on the choice of guitar, pickups, effects, amp, tuning/setup, and playing approach/technique. The difference is that non-amplified guitar is a much older instrument with a longer history to be drawn from, whereas pedal steel really is newer and there are a lot more "technical issues" with it. The player operates it through a mechanism which provides advantages, but also has limitations. Every instrument has both advantages and limitations. To me, being a 'musician' means learning how to extract the advantages and work around the limitations, as much as possible.

Marty, I'm not saying that Creeper's out-of-pitchness was caused by others' tuning issues, just that it's hardly the only tuning issue there. I agree that the pitch issues on the slow tunes also make me cringe at times and detract from them. But I do somewhat take issue with your original blanket statement:

"Almost everything I've heard from that genre/era SUX!"

Maybe you've only heard the bad stuff. IMO, the steel playing of Sneaky Pete and Al Perkins with FBB is generally fine, pitch-wise. Frankly, the most serious pitch issues with that band (and there are some) lie elsewhere, IMO. I'm not saying anybody should like or dislike this stuff. But people who like it should be expected to take sharp issue with such blanket dissing.

Marty is one to stirr the pot for that sake alone.
But i haven't heard him post any clips to prove HE is doing something to add to the steels inlfuences...
Step up and be counted dude.
or forever moan into the darkness.

Cage and Klienow did some killer stuff back in those days in that genere.

I think Marty didn''t LIKE those days
maybe felt left out, or NEVER wanted to be included... who knows. Hypotheticals..

In any case as in any genre at any time there are some gems,
and some clams often on the same albums from the same people.

Sometimes the gems make the OTHER cuts come back into blurry focus decades later,
and subject to 20/20 hindsight.

It's SOOOO much easier to look back and say...
hey that wasn't as good as today.
or that best of breed performance on another session...
When we wasn't there under THOSE conditions
to do the work....

Most CLASSIC recorded performances were cases where they GOT LUCKY that night,
even when the general level was quite high anyway.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 24 May 2005 at 11:03 AM.]

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SHO~BUDS, Steelkings,
Fender guitars,
Hilton pedals, Preston
covers, and Taylor(Tut, that is)Resos.

Still Country after all these years....

[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 24 May 2005 at 04:19 PM.]

The reason I first hated steel guitar was songs like "Together Again" - a three minute steel ride that whines and totally ignores the fact that there is a vocalist in the room. But hey, they were in tune!

Ok, now I went and done it. Totally slammed a steel guitar anthem - on the Steel Guitar Forum!

It's Marty's thread. You gotta expect a little controversy.

Terry