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 Pet Peeve (Page 1)
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Charles Davidson Member From: Alabama, USA |
posted 16 July 2005 02:16 PM
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Hello fellow steelers, my name is Charles Davidson. I live in Phenix City Alabama. My occupation is playing the steel guitar.My interest is steel guitar. My hobby is steel guitar. I consider myself a professional muscian.Been playing for 51 years. I work with a young singer 24 yrs old. His goal is to keep traditional country music alive. We turn alot of punk rockers on to Hank SR, Johnny Cash, Webb Pierce and on and on. To my surprise they love it! Our website is Joeyallcorn.com I have been logging on to the forum for several months. In the last few weeks I read several things I had to respond to. By the way, I hate politcal correctness. I speak my mind! Any rebuttel is welcome. The first thing that upset me was the attack on Bobbe Seymour. Bobbe Seymour is the steel guitar communitys' greated supporter. He is also one of the best pickers alive today. His style is definitely his own. He is an original. I have been dealing with Bobbe for years. He is a gentleman. When the band and I are playing in Nashville, we always make a point to visit him at his store. We are not big stars , rich or famous, just a hard working road band.He always treats us as if we were big stars and we appreciate that. Another pet peeve of mine is the sorry state this so called country music is in.Remember when you heard an artist on radio or TV. The first words that came out of their mouth you knew immediately who they were. They had talent, style and class. the so called artist of today you see on GAC(GREAT AMERICAN CRAP). Even with all the technology the million dollar studios have, the antares, pro tools, etc.These guys today can't even get close to the real artists of yesterday.The new crowd has no respect for their fans or themselves when they walk on the stage of the Ryman with their tank top shirts showing their hairy armpits to the world .You will never hear any real artist on FM radio, such as Robbie Folks, Wayne Hancock, or Del Watson who by the way is the best honky tonk singer living today.No doubt about it. In regard to the question as to your least favorite song, many of you said the steel guitar rag . I bet 98% of you,that was the first song you learned to play.When someone wants me to play it for the ten thousandsth time,I thank this person for asking, then I play it. Afterall,they paid to hear it.I wonder how many shows Floyd Cramer played and refused to play last Last Date.When you get to the point you don't want to please your fans, stay home and play what you want to.Here are a few examples of a pro and an ameteur.A pro is always on time and ready to perform.An ameteur is always late or has equipment problems.A pro will play his heart out for five people or five thousand. An ameteur will bitch and gripe if everything is not perfect.A pro always takes pride in his stage presence. An ametur shows up looking like a homeless person.A pro does not show up drunk or stoned. An amateur does show up drunk or stoned. A pro tries to please the fans that pay to see him. An amateur couldn't care less. Which one are you? Iam thankful to the forum for letting me express my views. Thank you. Charles Davidson ------------------ |
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Roger Kelly Member From: Mount Carmel, TN. 37645 |
posted 16 July 2005 03:07 PM
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Charles you just said, better than I could have, what I have been thinking for a long time. Amen Brother. |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 16 July 2005 04:28 PM
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 [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 17 July 2005 at 06:07 AM.] |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 07:50 AM
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Haven't heard any beefs about Bobbe Seymour. Particularly in the testing section. Welcome! |
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Nick Reed Member From: Springfield, TN |
posted 17 July 2005 11:45 AM
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Charles, I couldn't agree with you more. My band "Country Junction" is after the same goals as your band. You can visit our website at www.countryjunctionband.com Nick [This message was edited by Nick Reed on 17 July 2005 at 11:45 AM.] |
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Jerry Malvern Member From: Moreno Valley, California, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 12:42 PM
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I agree wholeheartedly about the current state of country music. or the lack of it. I formed my own band called the Starlight Wranglers, been gigging about 3 months. We have been very well received at the places we play and have been asked back at every one! And thats because we do real country music. Check out the website www.starlightwranglers.com |
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Delvin Morgan Member From: Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 01:04 PM
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That's the kind of ranting and raving I like. Thank you Charles. ------------------ |
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Keith Cordell Member From: Atlanta |
posted 17 July 2005 01:08 PM
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Attacks on Bobbe? Who? Show 'em to me, I'll unleash my acid wit on 'em! Or not... ------------------ |
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James Morehead Member From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 01:23 PM
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Charles Davidson for PRESIDENT!! You said what I feel, so well!!  [This message was edited by James Morehead on 17 July 2005 at 01:30 PM.] |
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Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 01:27 PM
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Charles: Respectfully, this is, I thought, a "Steel Guitar Forum", not a "Country Music Steel Guitar Forum". As such, it should be open to all styles and tonal excursions. While I agree with you regarding professionalism, the tone of your post seems to be negative towards those who aren't into the country...specifically your preferred kind of country...style. I've never heard, nor heard of "Robbie Folks, Wayne Hancock, or Del Watson", nor have I any desire to. I don't want to play "Steel Guitar Rag". It's an instrument (actually a group of them) - not a style. Please don't diss those who don't care for the same things you do. You have no right to judge a person by their choice of stage clothing either. It's simply insulting and based on your own prejudices. I respect your choices in music. I might not listen to them, but I won't insult them either. Neither will I be seen wearing cowboy boots or a bolo tie - does that make my music "invalid" in some way? Jim [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 17 July 2005 at 01:29 PM.] |
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L. A. Wunder Member From: Lombard, Illinois, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 01:35 PM
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I agree with your pet peeves, as they are my pet peeves as well. However...there are many "amateur" musicians who are every bit as serious and dedicated as the "pros." I've had very few playing opportunities and have never played for pay. I have always treated these "gigs" as seriously and respectfully as if I were making big bucks off of them. "Amateur" and "unprofessional" don't neccessarily mean the same thing. That said...Best wishes to you as you travel down the highway. |
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Paul King Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 02:56 PM
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Charles,I did not know you are a mind reader. That writing was great and so true. I could have not said it any better myself. |
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Larry Robbins Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 03:11 PM
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Charles, I think you and I are gonna be friends! Thanks for your post.I show up on time, clean and sober,Steelpolished,cowboy boots shined.With a clean, pressed Western style shirt, cowboy hat, ready to play and do my best.....I also have hair that hangs down to almost my a&& ! Though its allways clean and tied back, and a couple of earrings in my left ear( which of course is the right ear,ha,ha) and I got to say that I allways get treated like a Pro because I respect the audience, the club owner and myself.Thanks for a great post. ------------------ |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 17 July 2005 03:35 PM
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Charles, I totally agree with your SGR / Last Date analogy. I smile and play the song, then thank them for asking. As for my friend Bobbe, if you don't attack him occasionally he forgets we love him. |
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George Brown Member From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 05:42 PM
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Charles, Thanks for your post. I couldn't agree with you more. I count myself among the lucky. I play two nights a week at a little club about 40 miles from home. We have a good sized group of patrons, ranging in age from Pre-Teens, to at least 80. They all love Country music, and we play about 98%, with just a little older rock. The entire band is dedicated to each other, and to the patrons, and we try to entertain them as best we can with every song. To me, that is what it is all about. Thanks again George... |
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Al Marcus Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA |
posted 17 July 2005 08:53 PM
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Charles-Good post. I think we all agree on a lot of what you say. Although, Jeff brought up a good point. Steel guitar is not for just "country", although we all love it too, but it is for all kinds of Music.......al ------------------ |
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Al Carmichael Member From: Sylvan Lake, Michigan, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 09:31 PM
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With all due respect, there is no absolute "right" form of country music--only the styles we prefer to listen to and play. The country of 1940 was different than the music of '54 or '66 or '72, '80, '88 and so on. Music evolves and changes. Its influenced by other music, technology and the times we live in. I like some of the real old stuff, some of the classic 50's and 60's stuff, some of the 70's 80's and 90's and, believe it or not, some of the current music too. I also play some rock, some rock and roll, some folk music, some jazz, some pop and some blues and r&b. This week, I played steel with a 22 year old writer who is anything but country. I can certainly appreciate ones desire to play music from a certain period. I could be happy covering more than a few different decades and be quite happy. But music, like life, is a long and evolving process. Good music is not about the pressed cowboy shirt, the hair style, the boots or how shiny your instrument may be. Its about the heart and we are all messengers of the emotions and feelings of all mankind. Heart is all that matters in the end. Play what you enjoy and you will evoke that. If what you do is amazing, people will get it--no matter whether you play rock, country rock, classic country, swing, jazz or alt/folk-country. There was a recent concerto for orchestra and steel guitar that Gary Morse played in Nashville. I consider that progress for the instrument and exciting for the instrument. They didn't do any Dale Watson or Hank Williams, but it didn't suck. In sympathy, I wish country music was in a different state myself, but it isn't. Still there are some amazing artists out there riding the fringe of country and Americana music that need pros to pull off what they do. If we could just be open to the human spirit that makes important music, we could align ourselves to the task of making that music a reality. The new day dawns and, with it, new opportunities to make music that matters today. The old stuff was great, but some of the new stuff is as good. If I were you, I would embrace the present and bring your skill and quality to it, making it better than it would be without you. |
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Billy Carr Member From: Seminary, Mississippi USA |
posted 17 July 2005 09:40 PM
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I can pretty much agree with most of the things in this post.When I play, especially to a group that has paid there money to get in where I'm playing, if someone wants to hear SGR, then I'll play it. Very simple. The money they spend helps me get paid each night. To me it's just business. When I play for money, I consider it a business and I'm there to please as many people as possible. Of course, there's more to this than just playing. Playing is 50%. The other 50% is getting off stage during the breaks and working the crowd. Shaking hands and hugging necks. If a person doesn't feel welcome then they may not come back. I try to make it a point to see everybody I can before the nights over. After all if they were not there, then I wouldn't be! |
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David Mason Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA |
posted 17 July 2005 10:52 PM
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quote: I am not terribly thrilled or stimulated by the site of hairy armpits either, but you have to remember that there is now a whole art and science of marketing "rebels" and "outlaws." There are people who make a very good living tearing holes in jeans, dirtying them up, sewing on patches etc. Hollywood, country and rock stars often make use of special electric razors specifically adjustable to leave 3 days, 5 days, or a weeks worth of whiskers on their face. The whole outlaw country scene developed in the 60's and 70's as an understandable response to the glossy, Andy Williams-type pop sheen that many country artists had acquired. By now, it's pretty safe to assume that competition scruffiness among "artists" is either approved, suggested, or even required by the image designers assigned by the record companies. The rules for nonconformity have become extremely strict these days. |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 04:56 AM
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"In sympathy, I wish country music was in a different state myself...." Me too, and I'm in Texas. But seriously, I wish I could have seen the Gary Morse Concerto. I heard about it, thought it was the greatest. I hope someday to hear Mike Perlowin live with a symphony, doing the entire range from Debussy to West Side Story; now he's got a Spanish symphonic album in the works, and even Rhapsody in Blue in the planning. What a show that would be. |
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Franklin Member From: |
posted 18 July 2005 06:53 AM
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Al, Great post. I believe Willie and Waylon introduced the ripped jeans / T-shirt as a way to rebel against the Nudie/Manuel/western look. Depending on how you view it these new acts are following the traditions pioneered by some of Country's biggest legends. Paul |
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Larry Robbins Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 12:08 PM
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[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 18 July 2005 at 12:10 PM.] |
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Randy (Fuzzy) Whitener Member From: Corsicana, Texas, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 04:01 PM
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WOW, Paul all this time I've been thinking it was just the opposit. Silly me, I was under the impression Willie left Nashville and move to Austin area because the Nashville music machine would not give him the freedom to make his music his way (stifling his creativity) and he quit sucking the Nashville Tit and cut Redheaded Stranger at Autumn Sound in Garland Texas produced by Phil York. Once they seen there was money to be made they(music machine)because Willie was selling what they said could not be sold (ha ha)the machine got on the band wagon. I find it hard to understand how you could compare Willie with the numerus posers and sellouts coming out of the music for money Nashville machine. Sometimes we have selective memory when it comes to remebering things that work good for our situations. Please understand this is not an attack on you, just like to get the story strait for the folks here on the forum. Charles I agree if I buy a horse from you dont bring me a cow. (ha ha) Im affraid this is what is going to continue to happen as long as it is perpetuated by the Nashville music machine and those that would profit from it. Just my opinions. Also please excuse my spelling Im not using spell check. Fuzzy |
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David Wren Member From: Placerville, California, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 04:44 PM
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There's room for the entire spectrum of musical styles that will be found on pedal steel guitar today. And while I share the respect for the remarkable individual sounds that the early country singers (and musicians) cultivated, there were very few of them not simply adding a twist to a previously sucessful artist (although I give up where Hank Snow found his inspirations, timing and all). To be honest, I'm a little bored with the resurgence of "honky tonk" music. Whereas I am glad to see the younger set embracing the sounds of the '40s and '50, hey this should be their time to add to the collective melting pot of American music. There is evolving a "purest" snobery in trying to recreate Buck, JC, or Hank Senior that rivals that of the bluegrass crowd.... and I never could abide that "Holier than thou" attitude... it's just not why music was invented (by Jerry Byrd). Bottom line, it's all fine with me, just got my own likes and dislikes, that's all. ------------------ |
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Franklin Member From: |
posted 18 July 2005 05:27 PM
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Randy, Whoa!!! My post was a comment on the dress ONLY, or so called appropriate dress of todays professional musicians. I DID NOT comment on the musical reasons for Willie leaving Nashville. Willie and Waylon marketed themselves as "Outlaws" and "Rebels". The stereotype of a clean look, wearing sharply dressed uniforms, started back in the earliest days of the Opry. They chose choice to not wear the look of uniforms on stage, even though many promoters were complaining to their booking agents about their new ragged outlaw look. This approach to stage dress influenced many Country acts to do the same, which is commonplace today. If you can compare bands that dress up in cowboy hats and western suits to the look of ET and Bob Wills? Well, that is exactly the way I can compare todays artists dress to Willie and Waylon. The connection is pretty obvious. Paul |
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Randy (Fuzzy) Whitener Member From: Corsicana, Texas, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 05:52 PM
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Paul, I agree and remember all the styles of dress from the 50's on. I must have misunderstood when you said "Depending on how you view it these new acts are following the traditions pioneered by some of Country's biggest legends" sounded like you were compairing them to Willie and his plight(spelling?). Thanks for clearing that up for me. Fuzzy |
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John Daugherty Member From: Rolla, Missouri, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 06:22 PM
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I heard Chet Atkins say "I signed Waylon on the spot when he walked into my office wearing leather. The girls like leather". All I can say about the attire worn by an artist is..... "If it works, wear it". The same goes for "The Rag". After playing it it for 50 years,I don't like to play it, but if it works....play it. |
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Al Carmichael Member From: Sylvan Lake, Michigan, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 07:25 PM
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Paul--Thank you! When I was called to play steel for this alternative act, my first thought was " How would Paul Franklin approach this?" And I spent some time listening to Dire Straits "On Every Street" which, by the way, was very helpful! Charlie McDonald--I'm pretty excited about Mike Perlwin's work too. We live in rich musical times thanks to guys like Mike and Gary Morse, who have taken the music in new directions. Don't get me wrong, though--I still love the masters who play incredible country styles too. But I dig the idea of putting steel into unfamiliar waters. David Wren--I don't like that musical snobbery either. I'm not sure where it comes from, but it seems to me that if you are a great player that it might be rewarding and exciting to share with others who play totally different musical styles. I DO understand the passion of bluegrass pickers. It very difficult to play it at a high level. And whatever excites us musically, we SHOULD be passionate about it. Every musician or act that I've seen who was really good had a burning love for the music being played. But, why put down everything thats not our chosen music? If we'd all play what we like and leave it at that, it would be fine with me. It took me a long time to understand that such passion exists in every musical niche--even the ones that left me scratching my head. Who am I? Just another guy doing what he likes to do--same as all those other passionate folks who play stuff that I can't connect with. |
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Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 18 July 2005 07:26 PM
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I guess when it comes to steel guitar rag I was trying to point out that some of us come from totally different directions to the instrument. I honestly wouldn't know steel guitar rag if I heard it. It's not in my range of influences. |
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James Cann Member From: Phoenix, AZ (heart still in Boston) |
posted 18 July 2005 10:15 PM
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quote: Indeed they have! If you don't conform, you haven't a chance! |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 03:56 AM
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Yes, but a real class act doesn't have to worry about conforming. That Chet Atkins is a hoot. Liked Waylon in leather. What other master could sit down with Mark Knopfler, turn out an album and have a good time doing it? I wonder; was Knopfler wearing his t-shirt? Did Chet care? |
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Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 03:41 PM
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Great post. In response to David and Paul. The outlaws in the 60's and 70's were innovators. But one thing in mho sets them apart. The older guys were mega-talented, played instruments, wrote their own songs and left a mark. there is NO ONE on the radio today that is fit to be mentioned in the same breath with Waylon or any of those guys from yesterday. |
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Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 03:58 PM
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Al i share your sentiments but the problem is that for many people, what is played on the radio is all they get to expose themselves to. Nashville and NotsoClear Channel does'nt allow radio stations to play what a hell of a lot of people still wanna hear. Unfortunately or fortunately, we still live in a country where guys like to go have a drink after work, they like to chase women, people die, people cheat, people just keep on being people. That's what used to make the jukebox play. When there used to be jukeboxes. Some of us just wanna hear some good old country to help wash down the new country, |
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Franklin Member From: |
posted 19 July 2005 06:44 PM
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Brett, Try researching the musical career accomplishments of Alan Jackson, George Strait, and Garth Brooks, to name only a few of todays giants. Until you do, there is no way for you to comprehend how their footprints have influenced a new generation in the same manner that Wille and Waylon influenced their generation of fans. There are plenty of legendary careers to observe from both the past and present. IMO ALL the greats mentioned in this thread, whether I like their music, or not, deserve respect for accomplishing the impossible while maintaining their integrity as human beings. Paul |
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Franklin Member From: |
posted 19 July 2005 07:13 PM
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Brett, Please don't confuse my post as an attack on your opinion. If it seemed a little harsh, I apologize because I didn't mean for it to read that way. Because I have recorded with all these artists. I have seen how Willie and Waylon along with Garth, Strait, and Jackson share only admiration for each others careers, talent, and creative honesty. They ALL achieved success as the artist they wanted to be and none of them is like the other. IMO most artists (providing they have natural talent) that don't reach the legendary status, both in the past and present, are typically the ones that lost sight of their vision for making music. I believe when we forget what inspired our hearts to perform in the first place our music loses its honesty. Paul [This message was edited by Franklin on 19 July 2005 at 07:22 PM.] |
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George Redmon Member From: |
posted 19 July 2005 08:05 PM
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quote: don't sweat it jim....meet the steel guitar rag... ------------------ |
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Al Carmichael Member From: Sylvan Lake, Michigan, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 08:21 PM
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Paul--that last paragraph is pretty profound--sad but true. AJ, Garth and Strait have always had a vision for what they wanted their music to be--and they had the passion to make it happen. Same with Willie, Waylon, Buck (until hee haw) and Merle. The minute you subvert your music to please the bell curve, your vision dies right there. Brett--I hear you, but the only way radio will play the type of country we want to hear is when its target demographic wants to hear it too. I'm 54, and like a lot of country listeners my age, I prefer a lot of the older music too. We aren't what radio is aiming at though. And as a country songwriter, I can't tell you how difficult it is to censor every song you try to write so that its PC and squeaky clean. If you ant to hit the mainstream, you have to think Disney--almost. How about mark Chesnutt's "Saving the Honky Tonks"? GREAT record--fabulous playing by Paul. Any hits from this great disc? No. Its a damn shame. How do you even have a vision in this climate? |
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Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 06:15 PM
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Paul, let me start by saying I Love You. And I did not take your response as an attack. I have been a big country fan for twenty years. I'm 34 now. I am familiar with the contributions of the folks you have mentioned above. But I feel these people are the exception and not the rule. No knock intended here, but the folks you mentioned only Alan writes his own songs. George wrote no hits, Garth got his name on a couple. And neither are considered virtuoso's on any instrument. My point is that perhaps the truly talented artists are'nt getting their just do because they have a 38 inch waistline, or they don't look good in a pair of designer jeans or they're over 40 etc... How bout the story of the guy in Phoenix who's been toiling in the bars, playing for his dream, singing his butt off and can't get a sniff of a better place. It cost him a marriage, friends, sanity. He sings better than most all of them. That guy could be me. It is me. Don't mean to bring this down. Maybe its my bitterness. J/K. Really though, maybe there is just no originality left anymore. Maybe all trails have been blazed. I don't know. That's why I have recently taken to playing steel. The rest seems monotonous. But it seems to me that Nashville, what with their declining sales every year for the last several years, should look inward at what they've done to the music. Maybe it is the fault of the internet music sharing websites. Thats an easy target. Or maybe the music just blows. Except the stuff with lots of steel guitar. Sorry to rant Paul, but you are one of my heroes. |
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Brett Anderson Member From: Arizona, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 06:24 PM
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Al, I know they are'nt aiming for us. But maybe they should. You are'nt that old my friend. And my guess is that you, like myself and most others, have more money to spend on music than your average teenage girls. And let us face it here and now. It IS all about money. I would love to buy more mainstream nusic if I could feel something in it. I bought the new strait cd, and the Chesnutt cd you spoke of. I'm just saying gimme more to buy. |
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Harold Dye Member From: Cullman, Alabama, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 07:28 PM
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what I had to say was not important [This message was edited by Harold Dye on 20 July 2005 at 07:43 PM.] |
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