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 Garcia again. Why do I bother? (Page 2)
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Mark Lind-Hanson Member From: San Francisco, California, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 09:10 AM
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I was being facetious. Some people take things way too literally.(ormaybe have a hard time reading the humor in other foks postings. Of course (I)liked Rusty Young- I just didn't like him as much as some other folks. you see, you can get the same sort of defensive positions from people no matter WHO their favorite pedal steel players are... the nerve of some people! (to have a sense of humor...) |
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Mark Lind-Hanson Member From: San Francisco, California, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 09:17 AM
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And to make another point, I do agree that, there are a lot of people that commit "hero worship" when a simple respect will do. I think maybe Mike has encountered a few too many of these sort of people & that's probably why this soap box gets taken down & restored all the time. "Those" people get to me too, but usually for other reasons than they think Garcia is the God of Pedal Steel Players (the folks who think he was an avatar of the mystic sort)-Its a big reason I rarely hang out in the world of Dead fans these days! |
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Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 19 July 2005 09:38 AM
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We may be approaching this much too seriously, because JC was obviously not deliberately trying to achieve sainthood with his steel playing. I say, bless him, for achievement of a classic "ride" that has become a topic of discussion on a steel guitar website. His interpretation was simple, but effective. We must judge it in the era in which it occured. May Jerry Carcia rest in peace. ------------------ |
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Jerry Hayes Member From: Virginia Beach, Va. |
posted 19 July 2005 10:44 AM
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My opinion about the whole thing is that sometimes maybe it takes a not quite up to snuff musician to create a masterpiece recording! Buddy, Lloyd, Weldon, or any one of the other greats of the steel guitar would have no doubt done the Teach Your Children session entirely different! I personally can't imagine that song with any other steel work on it. What Jerry played was perfect for the tune. I always like to reference Luther Perkins (Johnny Cash's original guitarist) in situations like this! Luther wasn't a schooled player and had no advanced technique but what he contributed to Cash's recordings couldn't have been planned better. Can you imagine those old Sun records (I walk the Line, Folsom Prison Blues, Get Rhythm, Hey Porter) or any others of Cash's with any other guitar work. Luther wasn't influenced by too much knowlege and played what he knew and felt and it was absolutely perfect.....IMHO, as was Garcia's! JH in Va. ------------------ |
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David Mason Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 12:13 PM
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quote: Jerry had a bigger bag of dope? |
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Webb Kline Member From: Bloomsburg, PA |
posted 19 July 2005 12:16 PM
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Jerry, I concur. Take BB KIng for example. Few guitarists would ague that, technically speaking, his guitarist plays circles around him. But, I have never heard anyone emulate BB like BB himself. He can play one note on that 335 through that old Lab Series amp and it goes right to the heart. I doubt any one of us here could command the same effect as BB does when he plays. We're looking way too deep--which is often the problem with much of today's music imho. |
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Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 19 July 2005 12:32 PM
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Technical proficiency does not equate to artistic talent. Something that seems lost in the steel guitar community as many judge aptitude by technical proficiency. Wrong. I'll take Garcia any day of the week. The man was an artisitic genious. A perfect example is Dan Dugmore's ride on Blue Bayou. |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 12:53 PM
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Blue Bayou, that was a pretty ride. Very true, Gene, we have to take these things in the context of the time. When it comes to heroes, be they Mike, Jerry or whoever, that's why we have soapboxes and pedastals, so we can shoot them down after we put them up there. |
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Jim Peters Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 02:11 PM
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Kevin H.- I agree 100%. The usual heroes on this forum are great musicians, and great technicians, the two terms are NOT the same! We've all heard the million notes a measure kids at the music stores, with no musical talent at all. Technical ability does not automatically mean musicality. Give JG his due,it is a great song and a great musical part he invented. Who cares how hard it is to play. Two years ago when I started steeling,TYC was the first thing I wanted to learn.JP |
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Charles French Member From: Ms. |
posted 19 July 2005 02:21 PM
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quote: Yeah and that don't sit well with all the sitar purist over at puresitar.com. [This message was edited by Charles French on 19 July 2005 at 02:23 PM.] |
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David Wren Member From: Placerville, California, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 04:17 PM
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Hey Charlie, you can put me up on a pedalsteel... as long as it's a Carter(:>)>=[ ------------------ |
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Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 07:45 PM
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"but when people rank him above Buddy Emmons, I feel I must say something." Why? All they're doing is classing him among players in their range of influences. Buddy Emmons isn't in that group. Howard Roberts played a Tele sometimes. I've never seen him on a "Tele players top-10 list"...because he's outside most Tele players' world. My point? "Ignorance" is not a bad thing. It just *is*. Let them enjoy JG and please realize that **in their world** he IS the greatest steel player. It doesn't affect your world in the slightest. [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 19 July 2005 at 07:55 PM.] |
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Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 19 July 2005 09:18 PM
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"Steel Players and their Music"... I dunno exactly how many of these he played Steel on, but I'd say he played more music than a lot of people have listened to. I'd feel pretty sheepish calling him a hack anything. I always liked his style of steel playing. Unpretentious, from and to the heart. His guitar playing now... Here's a list of things he did, right of the top of my head... ( just kidding about the "head"...) Solo, group leader or co-leader albums Hooteroll?, Jerry Garcia and Howard Wales, 1971 Solo, group leader or co-leader - singles South Side Strut / Uncle Martin's, Howard Wales and Jerry Garcia, 1972 Solo, group leader or co-leader - compilations Zabriskie Point Soundtrack, Various Artists, 1970 Computer media that includes Garcia solo or group leader recordings Jerry Garcia Band - Somebody To Love, Jerry Garcia Band / Mr. Twidge and Art & Antics, 1996 Audio books / Spoken word / Interviews Jerry Garcia Interview By Scott Muni, Jerry Garcia / Scott Muni, 1991, Arista ADP 2377 Playing contributions to other albums Surrealistic Pillow, Jefferson Airplane, 1967 With others - Singles With others - single artist and various artist compilations The Worst Of Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Airplane, 1970
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P R S T U V W X Y Z I don't feel the least bit bad saying that his playing is some of my favorite. EJL [This message was edited by Eric West on 19 July 2005 at 09:25 PM.] |
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Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA |
posted 19 July 2005 09:26 PM
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Gene Jones wrote: quote: I would love to play anything, even once, that would be as memorable as his work on TYC, and inspire as many people to pick up the instrument as he did. |
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David Mason Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 01:59 AM
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As Robert Johnson remarked when he went down to the crossroads and threw a silver dollar across the parting in the Red Sea, quote: [This message was edited by David Mason on 20 July 2005 at 02:46 AM.] |
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Bob Carlucci Member From: Candor, New York, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 04:39 AM
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Eric... OUTSTANDING reply... I too always had great respect for JG and his musicality. He was not a "technician" in the classic sense, but he had heart,soul,taste,tone,feel,"big ears", and that inner clock that you either have or you don't.. His timing was SUPERB. He was NOT the worlds greatest guitarist.. but his guitar playing is INSTANLTY recognizable by millions, and LOVED by millions. He was not the worlds greatest banjo player, but when his banjo was featured on an album, it was bought by countless bluegrass fans,waiting to hear what he had to say with it. He was not the worlds greatest steel guitarist, but his steel is featured on one of the seminal country rock albums[NRPS] and his steel on TYC is one of the most tasteful pieces ever played on the instrument, not to mention it being probably the most instantly recognized steel piece EVER recorded. He was not the greatest vocalist, but his vocal parts are STILL being sung by countless 17-60 year olds long after his death.... JG was a great musician..
Here's an interesting anecdote.. When I am on stage tuning my steel,getting ready for a live performance or session, and there are people around, working, milling about, I might be playing fast bluegrass licks, hawaiian sounding or jazzy stuff, maybe turn on the distortion and play some bluesy lap steel kind of stuff.. everyone around me is rigging cords, setting mikes, doing the musician set up thing..not taking much notice.... I push the vol. pedal just a tad closer to the floor and rip into my best TYC... Everyone looks up, smiles,looks at the steel player, and they want to talk.. "WOW, Play that again"... How long you been playing that thing".... I LOVE that song"... "Teach Your Children..I remember that one!".... "Man that was sweet,, I've heard it before... what was the name of that song"... Thats what JG has done for the pedal steel... NOT a minor contribution. bob [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 20 July 2005 at 04:44 AM.] |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 05:28 AM
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I didn't know how long his list of credits would be. Now I know who was getting that sound in the Deja Vu era with Crosby. I'm wowed. Thanks, Eric. |
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David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 07:03 AM
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The really embarrassing thing would be to be jamming, and they play TYC, and you can't play it, because you're so pure it was always beneath you to learn it. That has happened to me. Not because I'm too pure - I'm just lazy and never got around to trying it. I also can't play Steel Guitar Rag or Sleep Walk. Guess I have some homework.  |
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Dave Zirbel Member From: Sebastopol, CA USA |
posted 20 July 2005 07:42 AM
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Wow! I thought I was the only one that didn't play Sleepwalk.  And not to drift off topic-it's only music. It ain't rocket science. What's the big deal? Nice going Mike P. DZ [This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 20 July 2005 at 07:43 AM.] |
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Jim Peters Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 01:53 PM
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Eric, nice post. I know you're a "newerbie" on guitar than steel, but if you'r not convinced of his ability as a guitar player, learn his solo to "Touch of Grey", and tell me what you think. The same lyricism that you enjoy with his steelwork is inherent in his guitar playing, along with a TON of technical ability. I know there are a lot of guitar players who don't think JG was that good, but I just have to completely disagee.(respectfully, of course!) JP |
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Steve English Member From: Tucson, Arizona |
posted 20 July 2005 02:02 PM
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 http://www.darkstarorchestra.net/ |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 20 July 2005 02:14 PM
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Ditto Eric, Gene, and Jim C. We all know JG wasn't BE, Lloyd or a technical master on steel, he knew it himself. It doesn't take away from what he did with it. I do understand Mike P's angst with these clueless kids thinking JG was the greatest ever, but the "who's the best" argument is moot in any case. |
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Bill McCloskey Member From: |
posted 20 July 2005 03:19 PM
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What a silly arguement, although it did generate a number of great posts. That discography is amazing. Of course Garcia is the best Pedal Steel Guitarist TO THEM! Why the heck should they search further. Weird Al Yankavitch is the best accordian player TO ME because I have no desire to find anyone else. I don't like Polka music. The kids you are talking probably lump country music into the polka category - ie. not going there. That is like someone pulling on my coat trying to convince me that Sven Svenson is the best accordian player and how could I even think that Weird Al is any good. My immediate thought would be "what a geek" which is probably what the kids were thinking. Long live Garcia. Always loved him. Always will. |
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Pete Burak Member From: Portland, OR USA |
posted 20 July 2005 03:48 PM
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Here's one... Garcia as a steel guitar player: "What I'm doing with the steel," he said in 1971, "is I'm going after a sound I hear in my head that the steel has come closest to. But I have no technique on the steel. I've got a little right hand technique from playing the banjo, and I've listened to records. But my intonation with the bar is still really screwed up. I have to do it by ear. ... I'm really a novice at it, but I'm not really trying to become a steel player. I'm trying to duplicate something I hear in my head." |
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Mike Winter Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 04:45 PM
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Right on Pete. And he played with half his right hand "bird" finger missing, too, meaning he probably had picks on his index and ring finger. Good quote. Nobody said it better than Jerry himself...he wasn't...didn't aspire to be. But he ended up playing one of the coolest little riffs ever. You gotta love it. |
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Dave Grafe Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 20 July 2005 05:00 PM
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Wow, Pete, I never saw that quote before, but it pretty well describes my approach to playing music as well - for me the hardest part seems not to be so much the playing itself but the hearing of what to play, regardless of the instrument. |
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Pete Burak Member From: Portland, OR USA |
posted 20 July 2005 05:37 PM
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That quote is from a book written by Blair Jackson. A great read. Check it out at: www.blairjackson.com |
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Paul Honeycutt Member From: Colorado, USA |
posted 21 July 2005 11:16 PM
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I met Jerry one time and we talked about Pedal Steel Guitar. I complimented him about the "cosmic" aspect of his playing. He took the compliment but he never thought he was that good at it. What I liked about Jerry's playing was that he was trying to find HIS voice on the instrument. He wasn't trying to be Buddy Emmons or Lloyd Green. He was just trying to do the best he could with what limited technique he had. I wish I had tapes of some of those early NRPS shows. Buddy Cage may of had the chops, but Jerry had the soul. The opening of Brewer and Shipley's "Oh, Mommy" (b side of "One Toke Over the Line") was Jerry and every bit as cool as TYC. We used to play it on jukeboxes in places were us longhairs were tolerated but not welcomed. BTW, Don Rich was a big influence on Jerry's guitar playing. |
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Jim Meiring Member From: Highlands, North Carolina, USA |
posted 23 July 2005 05:17 AM
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Isn't there a saying about kicking a dead horse? |
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Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 23 July 2005 06:20 AM
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Yes, even if he was a good one. |
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JB Arnold Member From: Longmont,Co,USA |
posted 23 July 2005 12:37 PM
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Lots of tapes of those early NRPS shows exist, including the closing night at Fillmore. In fact, there's 4 live cuts from that show added as bonus trax to the CD reissue of their 1st album NRPS, available now at their web site or amazon-or your favorite record store. JB ------------------ |
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Ken Skaggs Member From: Phoenix, AZ |
posted 23 July 2005 01:07 PM
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Thinking back, I believe that my love of PSG started in the days of rock with Jerry, Rusty, Buddy Cage and Sneaky Pete. These guys piqued my interest in steel and led me to the other Buddy, Lloyd, Hughey, JD, Tom Brumley, Paul and all the rest. |
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John Drury Member From: Gallatin, Tn USA |
posted 23 July 2005 02:29 PM
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Gene, Jimbeaux, Eric, Thank you! ------------------ |
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John Lockney Member From: New Market, Maryland, USA |
posted 23 July 2005 05:06 PM
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I was going to walk right past the horse and not give it a kick but, I will mention that there are 26 New Riders shows available for download for free at the Internet Audio Archive: http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?collection=etree&cat=New%20Riders%20of%20the%20Purple%20Sage Most of them are in multiple formats FLAC (lossless) and MP3 (compressed). |
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Tom Olson Member From: Spokane, WA |
posted 23 July 2005 08:40 PM
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My only observation in regard to this topic is that the term "great" is completely subjective... You say "potato," I say, "potato" You say "tomato," I say "tomato" Let's call the whole thing off.... |
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Barry Blackwood Member From: elk grove, CA |
posted 23 July 2005 09:11 PM
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I've got to go with Mr. Perlowin on this one, boys. JG's (steel)playing was, to quote the man, "... a long, strange trip." and you can take that any way you want to... If I were trying to demonstrate what a psg sounds like to the unknowing, TYC would be the LAST example I would present. Mr. Garcia did not influence me in the least, and hopefully those he DID influence, went on to become better players than he. [This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 24 July 2005 at 07:48 AM.] |
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Theresa Galbraith Member From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA |
posted 24 July 2005 05:18 AM
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It's all subjective, just like country music! |
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Barry Blackwood Member From: elk grove, CA |
posted 24 July 2005 07:51 AM
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Like Theresa said .... |
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Mark Lind-Hanson Member From: San Francisco, California, USA |
posted 25 July 2005 11:05 AM
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You can beat a dead horse to water, but you can't make it think... |
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Steve Hinson Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA |
posted 25 July 2005 11:23 AM
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I've cut"TYC"on three or four kids albums...they always have the record there and want it exactly like the record!Sometimes people want JG-style steel playing on other songs...there's a track up on my website called"Oildale"...check it out if you want... ------------------ |
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