Yes. Not everyone, but there are experienced ears that can. They might not in EVERY case, because many newer steels have evolved to kind of a generic tone - a reason why you still hear push-pulls and Fenders being used in spite of limitations and quirks.

Bobby mentioned "being able to get a good tone out of just about any steel" (paraphrased). That's very often the case - but a "good" tone doesn't mean you might not want a "different" tone.

My GFI sounds completely different from the Shobuds or MSA I had, and the Fenders also are distinct, which is obvious (and I know those might be s unique case).

Some people what a "good" steel tone and precise mechanics, and are happy. Some want decent mechanics but specific tone(s). Neither is wrong - but it's a simple fact that there are difference in tone between many makes/models of steels, and many players who are both aware of and exploit that.

It also does not mean there are not instruments that sound alike. That's also quite common.

But overall it doesn't mean anything is "wrong" or "right". However, you give me my choice of player, and let me choose the guitars and I'd take your bet at 1000:1 the OTHER direction.

In some cases it's just not that important - but some people DO hear, and care about, subtleties of tone. Those who can't hear it don't care - and some who DO hear it don't care.

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If the push/pull is so far above all others, why isn't it still being made?

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Excellent point Doug!

Two words:

Kevin, I agree that the ZB was part of the sound they got on those great records and the Ranch Show tapes, but I wouldn't agree that the studio had nothing to do with the sound that got released on the records. I really was reporting what Tom Brumley told me and I believe him.

I would go as far as to say that many players try to emulate a sound that is on a record when playing live...even the player who played it on the record originally... even if they are playing different equipment.

Dean Parks, you hit the nail on the head with your post and I couldn't agree more with the phrase "inspiring equipment breeds inspired technique"

This is confusing "style" with "tone".

Players like that have a recognizeable sound because of how they play - not "what" they play. They will sound different *tonally* on different guitars....it might be subtle or might not, but the differences are there.

God's Hands

enough said

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

1. - The person... call it the hands, the talent or the genious... e. g: BE sounds like BE on most instruments (unless he'd wanted not to let you know, probably).

2. - The recording period: I think this is a very much overlooked factor. There is the prevalent recording technology of each particular dacade, the preference of sound and drive as well of down mix. You hear them play in the eary 60's they allmost all sounded way different than on earlier recordings... same for the 70's and so forth... some changed instruments, some didn't but the sound chnged drastically.
3 - In my opinion, probably the least influencial: The brand of instrument (given we are talking about quality professional grade instruments).

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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
78' Emmons D10 P/P

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Is "It" In The Hands.... Or Inherent Tone?

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Touchdown.

Compression and Limiting are two of the main engineering devices (signal shapers) that are routinely used in the studio, especially on the steel. The goal for compression is for the notes to pop out a little more and be a little more even, and the goal in limiting is that it keeps us from accidentally getting too loud of a swell with our volume pedals. When used in moderation, they can enhance the steel sound (and guitarists use compression even more than steelers). These devices are also used after the fact when mixing. I'm partial to a Manley (this is a brand) compressor on various instruments when mixing.

I agree with Dean, Instruments are a source of tonal inspiration. I now have nine guitars of the same brand. When I play them, I can hear a subtle difference between all of them. once the distance from the amp or processing on a CD is added to what the listeners hearing, and they are blindfolded I don't believe anyone can really tell the difference, although some claim to have the ears to do exactly that. It will always come down to the psycholgical mindset of any particular players desire when choosing the correct instrument for them.

IMO, some of you are confusing the word "tone" with "style". For better communication, the word "style" represents a seperate area of the music we hear.

A players choice of notes, their harmonic preferences, and melodies, or licks, coupled with their rhythmic phrasing becomes their "style". And that word has nothing to do with the "tone" those musicians choose to deliver their style with.

For instance, Sneaky's, Buddy's, Chalker's, or Ralph Mooney's style is still heard within many players tones. When we play one of their licks with our tone, whatever that may be, we sound like we are playing their style of music. Matching the originators tone is not necessary to deliver their style of playing, although some may prefer trying to get as close as they can to the originators tone of the "style" they enjoy emulating.

Was my tone on Rodney Crowell's version of "Above and Beyond" Ralph Mooney's? A Side by side listen to Buck's and Rodney's version will reveal two completely different tones within the playing "style" that is undoubtedly, Mooney's.

Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 05 December 2006 at 07:40 AM.]

I have no doubt that guitars have a "characteristic sound". I also have no doubt that that sound can be altered, somewhat, by the player.

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I now have nine guitars of the same brand.

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Yeah, all those Emmpns Push/Pull players are hard iof hearing.

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No Kevin, I wouldn't go that far. But I do believe a lot of players (not only Emmons players, by the way) tend to be rather "stuck up".

Saying "________ guitar is the best" is very different from saying "________ guitar is the one I like best".

Admittedly, I'm just a hack at this, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I find it hard to look up to someone who looks down their nose at me because of what brand I play.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 06 December 2006 at 04:57 AM.]

That's where style can overcome your normal sound perceptions. If you went so far as to analyze the waveforms you'd find distinct differences, as the flattop and manouche guitar have totally different construction and design. But a really good player can play back near the bridge, kill sustain by lefthand finger lifts and right hand mild damping, pick with a super-stiff pick and play really hard....and if he REALLY knows the style will certainly sound like he's Django in disguise. But again, it's really style over tone.

"A players choice of notes, their harmonic preferences, and melodies, or licks, coupled with their rhythmic phrasing becomes their "style". And that word has nothing to do with the "tone" those musicians choose to deliver their style with."

On steel I'm a self-admitted newbie hack who can just barely get away with sounding like I know what I'm doing, and I don't have a recognizable "style" yet - I don't have the "tools" yet to form it. So my guitars sound like themselves, with little difference imposed by my playing. But on electric guitar( and to a lesser extent lapsteel, dobro, bass etc.) I sounded like "me" no matter if I was playing a Tele or a Les Paul - and you might not be able to tell I was playing a Les Paul if I *wanted* to make it sound like something else. But a good player with good ears could tell the difference.

Paul said again what many of us have been saying from the beginning of the umpteen threads about this. A season player with his own style will sound like himself on ANY instrument, but you should not confuse that with the tone that (as Paul succinctly put it) is "delivered".

Tone does NOT come from both - tone is inherent in the instrument. Any manipulation of that, whether it be attack, pick position and harmonic enhancement (or intentional loss), brightness, mellowness (both at the initial attack point primarily), and especially choice of notes, phrasing, timing and "flow" of playing...that's all "style" - not "tone".

And BOTH make up a player's "sound".

Tone is in the instrument/equipment.

Style is in the brain/hands.

Sound is in the combination of the two.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 06 December 2006 at 05:17 AM.]

"Is it possible to consistently identify a sound/tone which is unique and exclusive to any specific name brand of pedal steel guitar"?