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Author
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Topic: Anyone reviewed the 2 knee lever video?
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Chuck Martin
Member From: Mc Lean, Virginia
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posted 12 May 2002 11:52 AM
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I saw this video advertised on Bobbe's web-site and wanted to hear from someone who's actually seen it. Thanks, Chuck[This message was edited by Chuck Martin on 12 May 2002 at 11:53 AM.] |
Allan Thompson
Member From: Scotland.
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posted 15 May 2002 10:52 AM
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C`mon guys, somebody must have seen it? |
Bob Tuttle
Member From: San Angelo, Tx, USA
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posted 15 May 2002 11:19 AM
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I think they were shipping the first batch this past Monday, 5/13/02. It's possible nobody has gotten one yet. |
Tony Orth
Member From: Evansville, Indiana, USA
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posted 15 May 2002 01:55 PM
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With it's apparent popularity, I'm thinking of waiting until I can rent it from a local video store.What do you think, Bobbe?
Tony |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 15 May 2002 08:33 PM
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I heard it was like a Sho~Bud Maverick set-up with too many knees?  Bobbe's really just a Sheep in Wolf's clothing.  |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 15 May 2002 08:59 PM
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233 were shipped Tuesday, the 14th May, Some should be hitting the VCR's in a livingroom near you by the weekend. There will be a deeper, more involved and detailed, advanced one out in two months also for those that wish to have more guidance in this realm of steel guitar involvment.
Bobbe Seymour |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 15 May 2002 09:00 PM
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Hey Chuck, I've seen it! It's great! Brandy will be in the next one!!!
Bobbe!!!!![This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 15 May 2002 at 09:01 PM.] |
Jay Jessup
Member From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
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posted 16 May 2002 06:11 AM
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So what changes do those two knee levers have on them? Just the E's both ways or something a little more unusual? |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 16 May 2002 06:50 AM
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This sounds like a throw-back to the old days of secret tunings and changes.  |
David Weaver
Member From: Aurora, CO USA
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posted 16 May 2002 09:33 AM
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quote:
This sounds like a throw-back to the old days of secret tunings and changes.
Everyone loves a good mystery. It sounds like fun and I'm really interested in the reaction that the 'early jumpers' have to the tape. Stay tuned... |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 May 2002 07:49 PM
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OK , I'll tell you guys the deal here on the "secret Knee lever". The secrete isn't the knee set-up as much as it is what you can do with it! DUH!
As the tape states, The pedals are all the same (3) as ever, Day or Emmons works fine. One knee lowers the E's. On the other leg is the Knee that pulls it all together, This other lever lowers the second string,(half only) Raises the seventh string,(one step)and lowers the ninth string (one half). If you put any more on this knee it will get in the way of what just this alone will do, as is demonstrated on the tape. I will be here to answer all questions as to what, where why and how, free for the asking. Want to raise the first and second for a hokie lick? Go to it, it won't get in the way. Also , not needed but a old habit, is raising the E's, do it to if you wish,but, it isn't nessesary, as you will see on this tape.
Things have gotten continually more complex on steel guitar over the years, this is a way to play a tremendous amount of big steel , easier, cheaper,simpler,and faster.
AND I'm here to answer questions! Bobbe Seymour
sales@steelguitar.net |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 17 May 2002 07:59 PM
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Chuck Martin and Jim Smith, I wasn't trying to keep it a secret, just wanted to let folks hear it and see how I worked it before they just "put it on a guitar" and said "Now what do I do?" I want everyone to enjoy the benifits of what this set-up is all about.Sort of like my getting into a Airbus 300 last week and looking at the new tech glass cockpit panel, The Capt. said, "see how much easier it is to fly?" Well, it might be once I'm shown,I stated," but I'm still used to the old way".
I'll show eveyone the new easy way, then you'll see a great new musical trick. |
Fred Murphy
Member From: Indianapolis, In. USA
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posted 18 May 2002 08:05 AM
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Bobbe I was almost sure I seen a few bar slants and left hand string pulls at Chatanooga. In fact I thought I saw a lot of them.  |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 18 May 2002 08:37 AM
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Of course you did , I was playing the steel guitar! (not all that well though). Seriously though Fred, I never could understand why someone would put a pull on a steel when all you would have to do is move the bar to get the same thing. Know what I mean?
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Fred Murphy
Member From: Indianapolis, In. USA
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posted 18 May 2002 10:10 AM
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You sounded great Bobbe, and it is amazing what can be done with just two levers. I can't play half that much with five. |
Chuck Martin
Member From: Mc Lean, Virginia
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posted 18 May 2002 02:08 PM
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Thanks for your reply Bobbe. I just picked up an MSA Classic SS with only 2 levers which I've set up with the knees lowering and raising the Es. I know you can still play the lights out of your guitar if you know what you're doing even without a bunch of knee levers. Guess I'll need to see the video to figure out how to get along without raising those Es.
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 18 May 2002 07:15 PM
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You can do it and even sound better. I'll be playing the Nashville Palace Sun. Mon. and Tues. this week using this set-up. We will be backing many stars.(or wanna bee's)
I want you to see this video Chuck.
Bobbe |
Barbara Hennerman
Member From: Rangely, CO, USA
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posted 19 May 2002 11:27 AM
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I got mine yesterday and I think it is phenomenal!!!!!!!Can't wait to apply it. Course I don't play near the steel Bobbe does, but I think it's going to be great!! |
Chuck Martin
Member From: Mc Lean, Virginia
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posted 19 May 2002 01:06 PM
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Is the set up with one lever for each leg or two levers on one leg? |
Barbara Hennerman
Member From: Rangely, CO, USA
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posted 19 May 2002 03:30 PM
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One pedal for each knee. |
Ray Rasmussen
Member From: Santa Rosa, CA,
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posted 19 May 2002 03:54 PM
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Keeping in mind that most instuctional material is geared toward a more "coventional" copedent, is it realistic for a relatively new steel player, as I am, to consider this 2 knee lever set-up? |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 19 May 2002 04:48 PM
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Yes, and every pro should too. The standard knee set-up is really quite inefficient. This knee lever needs to be on all guitars regardless of what else you are doing. Ray,You said most "instructional material"
If you want to play exactly like every one else, and sound like you were turned out of a steelguitar school factory, and just play single notes or little tiny chords,then , this tape isn't for you. If you would like to impress other musicians----and steel players that won't be able to do the things you do, this is the time to learn, NOW, not after you have learned something you may wish you could forget.
Besides, RAY, this is just the beginning of material for this set-up. Much more and I mean much more is being planed now. Any questions, call me.
www.steelguitar.net [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 19 May 2002 at 04:55 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 19 May 2002 at 05:03 PM.] |
Rob Hamilton
Member From: Concord, MA, USA
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posted 19 May 2002 08:33 PM
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Bobbe, I too am little more than a beginner. I've got an old Sho-Bud Pro-I with two knee levers on the right knee. (Hey, and I'm beginning to get comfortable with them, lowering E's and the Eb to D.) Does your method/video suggest that one should add a lever on the left knee and shift focus to one-per-knee? What is your recommendation for S-10 players with existing knee bar arrangements? Add capability or change capability? Thanks, Rob
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Andy Greatrix
Member From: Edmonton Alberta
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posted 19 May 2002 10:43 PM
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Does putting three changes on on knee lever contribute to cabinet collapse?(does it make the other strings go flat?)
Thanks in advance,-Andy |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 20 May 2002 12:19 AM
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Rob and Andy. You do hve to have the E's lower seperated from the trick knee lever. You can't push them at the same time if they are on the same knee.
Question #2: You would have to have a really bad guitar if it detunes by only pulling three strings. If it's that bad, you really do kneed another brand guitar. But I don't know of a guitar of major brand that would fall into this catagory. All guitars I know of won't even start to be affected by a three string change.
Any more questions, I'll be glad to answer. Bobbe
[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 20 May 2002 at 12:19 AM.] |
Andy Greatrix
Member From: Edmonton Alberta
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posted 20 May 2002 02:58 AM
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I lower my E's on right knee going left.
I raise my F#'s on my left knee going right
and hardly use it. I could put it on there and still keep my other two knee levers.
(I have an MSA semi-classic with a BL pickup)
It should make life and steel playing very interesting.
Thanks for the reply, Bobbe.[This message was edited by Andy Greatrix on 20 May 2002 at 02:59 AM.] |
pdl20
Member From: Benton, Ar . USA,
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posted 20 May 2002 07:50 PM
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Got the tape, VALY INTERESTIN. |
Jay Jessup
Member From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
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posted 23 May 2002 06:44 AM
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I received my tape yesterday after ordering it on Monday from Bobbe's site, that's fast! Thanks Bobbe.
I have only had the chance to watch it once and that wasn't with my guitar handy so I'm not ready to form an opinion on the tuning yet but I will say that the tape is more of a demonstration video than a teaching tape. Bobbe's enthusiasm for the tuning clearly shows through and some of his justifications for using it are very sound. If you are a beginner it might be hard to get a whole lot from this tape but anyone that has spent some time on E9 should be able to pick up on it quite easily. By the way that's one pretty Emmons. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 23 May 2002 11:34 AM
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Jay Jessup,
Very true, this is a demonstration tape but the already good players will get along great with it and learn a lot from it as they can "see and do" easley, the near beginners will require a little more detail in executing the finer points.I feel your review is very accurate. This is why the low price and also why we are releasing another very simple teaching tape with the total beginners in mind. We wish to help all, pro and non-pro. Just let me know when the next one is needed and thank you for the nice reviews. Remember, this tape is a teaching-demo tape and is not intended for entertainment perposes,(although it seems to be appreciated as one)This tape is produced without all the fancy production frills which keeps the price affodable. I'm here to help,-------www.steelguitar.net [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 May 2002 at 11:36 AM.] |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 23 May 2002 11:59 AM
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So, let me get this straight. This video promotes a knee lever that:1. lowers the 2nd string D# to D
2. raises the 7th string F# to G#
3. lowers the 9th string D to C# The other knee lowers both E's to D# - a very standard lever.
First of all, I believe that learning to play steel without the F lever is a mistake. I believe in the F lever so strongly that it is the only lever on my Sho-Bud Maverick. I can get along fine without the others, but i'm not willing to live without the F lever major chord inversions.
Secondly, what's the point of putting the 7th string raise on the same lever as the 2nd string and 9th string lower? It's common to use the 9th string lower to create a "half stop" feel on the 2nd string, so that you can also lower the 2nd to C#. Adding the 7th string change makes it pretty hard to do this. I feel that the 7th string change belongs on a separate lever (if you need it at all). I put mine on a pedal.
Anyone can publish a video or a course for any tuning or pedal change that they can dream up. You can play good music within nearly any set of reasonable limitations. The standard 3+3 E9th, however, is a base level that every player should learn before moving on to other ideas. A 1-lever or 2-lever course is not for beginners. Beginners need the basics, and the basics are 3+3.
I know that Bobbe and I don't agree on this, but I couldn't stay quiet about it. ------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6) |
Roger Rettig
Member From: NAPLES, FL
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posted 23 May 2002 01:45 PM
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Well put, b0b.I've watched Bobbe play this two-knee set-up and, while he plays on it very nicely, I'm far from convinced that it would afford me all the changes or inversions that I constantly use. I'm all for simplifying the standard set-up, and you won't find 'lick pedals' on my guitar, only 'chord' pedals (my terminology, but I think it's clear), but I believe the 'F' raise is a liberating one! It's got to be four 'knees' on E9 for me. (I, personally, feel the same about lowering the 5th and 10th a half-step, but that's just my opinion......)[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 23 May 2002 at 01:51 PM.] |
Chuck Martin
Member From: Mc Lean, Virginia
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posted 23 May 2002 09:13 PM
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I recently picked up an MSA SS that only has 2 knee levers on it; the 1/2 step lower (RKR) and the 1/2 step raise (RKL) for strings 4 & 8 (Es). These are the changes I use the most and the only ones I feel must be on my guitar. I have other steels with the "standard" 5 knee lever setup but several of the levers I don't use very much (VKL, for example). I agree with Bobbe that most guys don't use or need 5 levers on their guitar to play steel but I'm not yet sold on his "trick" lever. My approach to steel is to move in and out of the various chord inversions up and down the neck.
[This message was edited by Chuck Martin on 23 May 2002 at 09:16 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 23 May 2002 09:44 PM
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This is just exactly why I didn't want to put the tuning on the forum before it could be shown or taught. It is very obvious that the tape has not been seen by the detractors.
To analize this on paper before seeing or hearing is like the population of Kittyhawk N.C.in December of 1903, looking at the Wright Brothers and saying, "that thing will never fly". I feel Roger and bOb need to see the tape first and listen to what can be done before any judgments be made, after all, the title of this post is "anyone reviewed the 2 knee lever video", not "I saw it on paper and it wont work" video. It is the combinations that are the great breakthrough, not a "stomp on this pedal and hear a lick!" .
To dismiss it without trying it or seeing it is pretty negitive. Many great players have tried it and have commented on its great merit. Doug Jernigan, Stu Basore, Randy Beavers,etc. Ever heard the expression, "Don't knock it 'till you've tried it?" Might try to apply it here. Bobbe
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 23 May 2002 09:58 PM
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Hey guys, you send me a 10 min. video of you playing E9th with 5 knee levers and I'll send you one of me playing with two knee levers. Lets see how much more music one gets than the other. Remember, I've had several more hours now on this tuning than when the video was made too. But then, look how many more hours you have with 4-5 knees than I have with just two.
This tuning just keeps getting better, and is so fast to learn. Everything you touch works musically.
Play the intro to "Night Life" on your set-up,(E9th) then listen to it on the "2 knee set-up."
Bobbe[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 May 2002 at 10:00 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 23 May 2002 10:06 PM
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Also, as I say on the tape, there is nothing wrong with having a E to F knee lever on the guitar also. I just show you on the tape how to get this change without the lever. You can have all the knees on the guitar you want , as long as you can handel them, they don't get in your way and you don't mind "wearing" your guitar, but you DO NEED TO HAVE THIS LEVER, and learn how to use it.
Bobbe ( sorry about filling your hard drive -bOb-)
Bobbe |
Roger Rettig
Member From: NAPLES, FL
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posted 24 May 2002 06:30 AM
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Ooops - sorry I spoke! ( )[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 24 May 2002 at 06:31 AM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 24 May 2002 06:47 AM
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Roger,nothing out of place with what either you or bOb said, that's what this forum is for. What I need to make very clear is that there is NOTHING wrong with using 3-4 knees in addition to this "trick" knee. Raise the Es, Raise strings one and two if you wish, but not with the "trick knee". This lever provides the best of all worlds as I demo on the tape. Russ Hicks, is also of one of the
belivers of this lever. I welcome ALL comments and will answer all questions.Thanks to all. Support your forum[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 May 2002 at 06:51 AM.] |
Roy Thomson
Member From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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posted 24 May 2002 06:50 AM
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I'm always interested in something new. In this case I have some concerns on the seventh string.
On my guitars I have always looked upon the seventh string as a helper string. It's there when needed. A bridge, a step,....it also just sits there waiting to combine when a ninth chord, sixth chord, major, minor etc figure in where convenience dictates it's use.
I take it that Bobbe's new change gives this string a new role. One that puts it more in centre stage; and that's fine but you have to be careful with No.7 folks. It must be tempered so that it sounds good with the pedals both up and down. It must also sound right with the top chromatic strings one of which is F#. I do not tune my F# strings quite the same incidently. Does everybody else?
I have always found the seventh string to have a "taut" and somewhat dead feel and have never been as comfortable with it as the others. On my guitar it just sits there waitng to be called on. I don't have any knee lever or pedal connected to it so as not to compound the potential "in tune" problem.
Actually in all my years of playing E9th I have always regarded the seventh string as the odd man out. It just doesn't have any
"Balls".
Bobbe's idea has my attention however. I am always listening when he's around. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 24 May 2002 06:54 AM
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This knee makes the seventh string one of the most important on the neck. I DO advise you to go to a lighter guage though! It will help get some "snap " back in the tone of this wire. Thank you Roy. I listen to you too! |
David Weaver
Member From: Aurora, CO USA
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posted 24 May 2002 07:57 AM
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Bobbe Seymour is in a unique spot and for that reason alone, he merits a serious hearing on what gets him excited. First, Bobbe is a master player, so he isn't going to get excited about a system that compromises the quality of his playing or limits his music. Second and more uniquely...he has to SELL guitars to make a living. Therefore he has to think about the beginner player and what will work for him (her). To sell guitars, he has to think about the monster learning curve that the instrument precludes for anyone taking up steel guitar. If he can make it easier for the beginner that walks into his shop and says "I want to try playing steel guitar", he has a better chance of keeping that player motivated and excited about the guitar. If Bobbe can help me, I certainly will listen. I want to be able to get that E9th steel sound out of my guitar. But I am an amateur player in every sense, and 5 knee levers are too many to keep up with. I'm not quite ready to turn my guitar over and take the wrench to it, but I would like to hear more as this story develops.
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