Sorry for the delay in answering your inquiry. Thank you for your interest. The vertical fretboard will be placed just beyond the nose of the bar. and fingertips. Making contact with the newly placed fretboard would be undesirable. The height of the uppermost edge will be kept to a minimum, although there are many variables associated with preferences. The finished product should offer a comfortable visual contact, with the bar nose having the appearance of resting on the selected fret.

Bill H.

Are you going to solder a needle directly onto the center long axis of the bar?

Do you trust your ears exclusively while playing an uptempo melody, that requires many zigzag moves involving quick fret changes, and long span glisses?

The fact that some of the greats with long experience can play without a fret board, or also blind people can (are there any blind steel players?) doesn't really change the fact that sight is helpful for most of us. And to the extent that it is, a vertical fretboard might be helpful, especially in the middle range where your bar hand gets in the way, or on the high frets that are really close together. But from the audience standpoint it will make it so no one can watch you play - what a loss of esthetics. But then, you can't see keyboard players hands sometimes, and nobody seems to care.

Update on proposed vertical fretboard!! I just came away from my steel, and I have to report that a 2" wide prototype fretboard with matching frets is unbelievable, compared to the partially hidden horizontal. Free! I'm home free. Now I'll be able to do Buddy's 3rd and 5th string backward glisses perfectly, and derive pleasures upon pleasures, knowing positively, that I've conquered something that has been a bur in my sock for years. An extra bit of trivia! My wife held the prototype in place and I took off on Kitty Wells' "Password" intro by George Edwards.
I went from the 2nd fret to the 15th, with no stops on the way. The horizontal fretboard is covered temporarily for testing with typing paper. After a turkey breast dinner, I'll be back at the steel.

I can't wait!!

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kd...and the beat goes on...

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kd...and the beat goes on...

I'm so excited about this major breakthrough, associated with the steel guitar horizontal fretboard, that I must tell you this. I will never go back to the horizontal fretboard again. When I
placed the 2'' wide prototype in a temporary track holder and proceeded to play, I thought to myself, this has exceeded my expectations 10 times over. All of the positions are clearly before my eyes, and the nose of the bar goes right to the positions with total accuracy. The fretboard can be placed at different angles for eye comfort.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 26 September 2002 at 02:18 AM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 26 September 2002 at 04:04 AM.]

I like your suggested name for the "Angled Bar Guide". You thought that the name "LUCKY 24" could be used as a referable title. I think so too. Therefore, I accept, and it is agreed upon at this time.

This morning I gave the newly designed fretboard a good workout with Hank Williams' "Mansion On The Hill". I came away from the steel totally elated. "I can see clearly now" as the song goes. Most of all I wanted to mention that my version of the "Lucky 24" will be retractable to facilitate slipping beneath strings for transporting. While in use it simply rests on the front edge of the instrument, and is stabilized by spring tension and collapsible flat stock. I can't wait to take the "Lucky 24" out of the house on its maiden voyage, and to demonstrate its total efficacy.

I see your "L-24" as sort-of "training-wheels". Use it to learn, then remove them.

I have a removable Sho-Bud fingerboard on my Carter. It looks cool, but I sometimes flip it over to the all black side. (never in public)

I then try to play fretless. It's painful but worthwhile practice, IMO.

Even Buddy posted here that he sometimes practices (simulated) blind.

Joe Wright is a big influence for me. His drills helped develop my "no sight" approach.

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I will take the necessary steps to secure a patent on the proposed fretboard, after checking on the costs involved to do so.

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Quite frankly Bill, patents don't seem to mean very much in the steel guitar industry.
The costs associated with this would be significant. I would think a marketing study of your proposed product would be a serious first step. Can you supply these to builders at the same or less cost of their current product? Do the builders even want this? As you may be aware, the steel guitar world is very reluctant to change anything. The vast majority of us are over 50, and really are not very interested in change. I think the term that best applies here is "old fogies", unless we include Marty, and then I think "old foggy" is more apt.

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

[This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 26 September 2002 at 07:06 AM.]

I've concluded that this "Lucky 24" 2'' wide angled fretboard placed at the tip of ones bar will revive the spirits of all, young and old. I can't begin to tell you how much more enjoyable playing the steel has become just overnight. My interest in playing the instrument has peaked to level I've never experienced prior to the new concept.

Thanks, but no thanks for the lights. The bar nose appears for the first time in steel guitar history, to be touching the fret, while in reality it isn't. What more could one ask for as a foolproof guide to exact fretting capabilities. Simply put, nothing more is required. It's everything I've wanted to reverse the inability to see all the frets, all
the time.

What I'm wondering is what about the larger strings under the back of the bar being in tune?

How about this idea...

Install small magnets between the strings directly over the frets. They should provide a small magnetic pull when the bar is perfectly in tune.

Maybe the bar will stay on the strings (in the correct position)

Absolutely, and by all means, I will respond to the "Mirror Effect". The mirror effect occurs when a narrow mirror, approximately the width of yard stick, and the length of the fretboard is placed properly near the front edge of the steel guitar. When placed properly, it will reveal the frets near the 1st string. The bar nose can be guided to the correct fret by this arrangement. Use an unbreakable mirror to prevent injuries. Encase the mirror to prevent sharp edges from causing injury. *Velcro will make it possible to anchor the mirror in place.

Heck, I'll even give one a workout, if you're so inclined.

Bill, for most of us, this device will not work because playing on the frets will make us sound out of tune! It works for equal temperament only.

For example, when I play the A+F position, my bar must be considerably sharp of the fret position. This is because the C# note is tuned flat and the F note (actually E#) is tuned twice as flat when compared to equal temparament.

The frets are rough guides, to be used to get you "in the ball park" when you first place bar to strings, or when you are doing a long gliss. Trying to play everything "on the fret" will only make you sound out of tune more often, if you tune your guitar to just intonation like most of us do.

Even in equal temperament, the phenomenon called "cabinet drop" requires the player to move the bar sharp or flat when using pedal and lever combinations. Otherwise, he will be out of tune.

Like several others in this discussion, I feel that this invention is a very bad idea.

In all due respect Bobby, I can't resist throwing a few punches of my own. Please don't scoot out the back door, and ride off. After those profound statements you've made, please allow me to hear all you have to say as a continuation of the quote, "It won't work for most of us". Now really, why might it work for some, and not for others? I've already stated that I'm experiencing more pleasure playing the steel, than ever before. Sort of like, carrying water without the hole in the bucket. This statement that I'm about to make, will cause a rub in the entire musical community. It's impossible to be perfectly in tune while playing any stringed instrument. Would you care to hop on that "bronc" and go for a spin?
I'll take it as far as necessary to prove the point. Therefore your purported harangue concerning this new concept does not hold water. It smacks of the old wrench in the machinery routine. I would enjoy going deeper into one of your main interests, (tuning and pitch problems) if you so desire. Please keep in mind that I have the greatest respect for you, and if you feel that this would be a waste of your time, simply say something to that effect.

Bill H.

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carrying water without the hole in the bucket.

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quote:

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purported harangue

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Dude, your grasp of the finer (and grosser, actually) nuances of the english language is tenuous, at best.
Perhaps you should confine yourself to the use of two syllable words and lose your trainwreck metaphors altogether.

It occurred to me this morning that those of you who might like to experiment with the idea at hand, could simplify testing the improved version, by locating a spare fretboard. Place it along the front edge of your steel at 75 degrees, or tilt it to suit your visual preferences. Any makeshift arrangement to secure it will do. Proceed to place your bar on the strings, and you will see the advantages at first glance. The width of the fretboard will be decided later. It's not crucial, although I'll be opting for the finished product to be under 2". 1 and 5/8 " width looks right to me.

I removed my existing horizontal fretboard this morning. I will cover the raised neck with black vinvl. I'm out of there!

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 27 September 2002 at 07:26 AM.]

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom; Sho-Bud LLG

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Ron (Chippy) Wood
Carter S10/Pad

I'm unable to respond due to an apparent overload.