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Author
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Topic: kline steels
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Richard Bradley
Member From: Arcata, California, USA
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posted 03 June 2003 03:48 PM
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I have noticed some kline steels up for sale. Does anyone have any information or experience with these keyless guitars?Are they considered to be a good brand of universal guitar? |
ebb
Member From: nj
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posted 03 June 2003 04:05 PM
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http://steelguitarforum.com/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20011227-1-007350.html
buddy mispells kline as cline. i think they are one of the best guitars ever made especially if they have joe's original pickups. |
nick allen
Member From: France
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posted 04 June 2003 01:05 AM
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I believe British pedal steeler B.J. Cole has played a Kline universal for many years, in many different settings.
Nick |
George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
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posted 04 June 2003 04:17 AM
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I have a Kline U-12 that I had converted to an extended E-9. I have always said that I will never own another guitar. It sounds great, stays in tune, doesn't break strings, and doesn't weight a ton. What more could I want? HOWEVER, having started out on a 68 Emmons PP, I do have a desire for one of them with 12 strings. I would not sell my Kline though, unless I just liked the Emmons better. Mine has the original Kline pickup and is rosewood mica. If all the Klines are like mine and like the one a friend of mine has, they are truly great guitars. I don't think anybody would go wrong buying one. They are not made anymore and I heard a rumor that Joe Kline had died. I hope it is not true and since I never saw a post about it on the forum, it probably isn't. |
George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
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posted 04 June 2003 04:23 AM
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A side note, someone told me that Joe Kline invented the keyless tuning system. Anybody know the history of the keyless tuning? |
Mike Meese
Member From: Dover, Ohio, The United States of America
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posted 04 June 2003 03:58 PM
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Joe Kline is alive and well and enjoying his retirement. |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 04 June 2003 05:33 PM
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Red Rhodes had a keyless tuner on his Fender way back.I put Kline keyless tuners on my Super Pro back around 1980.[This message was edited by chas smith on 04 June 2003 at 05:35 PM.] |
John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 08 June 2003 09:01 PM
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You might want to check with Gene Fields (GFI) as to who designed the first Keyless–System! Just A thought! “Big John”------------------
‘Til L8R, “Uh~” ƒƒ< “Big John” wknsg® http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels
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b0b
Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 08 June 2003 10:44 PM
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Moved to 'Pedal Steel' section. |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 09 June 2003 06:20 AM
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I bought my Kline oak S-12 in 1978 and it's still the only steel I play out. It's had a hard life but has held up extremely well. I'll second what George said: It sounds great, it's not too heavy (but very solid; the weight savings comes from the reduced body length with the keyless tuner), and the thing stays in tune very well. I almost never have to tune any pedal stops. I just touch up the open strings if necessary and away I go. I love Joe's keyless tuner design. The tuning is very precise and solid, up or down (no gear slop), and changing strings is much easier than with conventional tuners. |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 10 June 2003 04:08 AM
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Hey there Bruce Derr!!
I first saw the Kline in 1976. I bought the keyless unit from Joe, and put it on my home-made steel. Then, in 1981 I got a Kline. A S-12 with a natural maple body.
With the exception of the times I left the Kline in NZ and played my own steel back in the USA, the Kline has been the ONLY guitar I've played.
Stays in tune just like Bruce said. The times I have needed to toluch the tuning screws I can count on one hand. If I put the right string gauges on, it just stays where Joe set it.
They aren't the easiest to work on, although I have done some work on mine, and know my way around it.
They sound great, and are small and stable. And they play with ease.
Love it!
Joe is alive and well (I hope so! The guitar has a "lifetime guarantee"-- HIS lifetime!) and spending summers in Ohio and winters in Florida.JW
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 10 June 2003 08:47 AM
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What's the scale length of a Kline? Also, how does the tone compare with other keyless guitars (Sierra, Williams, GFI)?------------------
 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
Walter Jones
Member From: Athens, Ohio USA
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posted 10 June 2003 02:02 PM
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Joe Kline looks pretty good walking around ,for a dead man. Just kidding, Joe was at Greg Zimmers show in Columbus, Ohio last weekend and enjoying the show. I did notice that he was looking over some of the guitars pretty closely. I know he has retired but the interest is still there.Also sitting in the back of the room in the vendor area was a brand new MSA Milliminum (sp?)It was white and was really an eye catcher. Spotless and nice engraving on the pedals. Some people had asked the owner about it so he very graciously brought it in Saturday. |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 10 June 2003 05:20 PM
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b0b, my Kline's scale length is 24-1/4". |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 10 June 2003 08:59 PM
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Hello Winnie! I saw you demo the Kline at a PSGA meeting back in '77 or '78, and that was what got me thinking about buying one. So thank you! At the time I was playing a Sho~Bud, so the precision of the Kline really appealed to me. A steel made by an expert machinist to tight tolerances... what a concept! (I like Sho~Buds, too; it's just that I've never considered precision manufacturing their forte.)I still remember you describing how you felt the moment before you cut 6" off the end of "The Steel" with a bandsaw to install Joe's tuner.  |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 10 June 2003 10:11 PM
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Can you get more than one raise and one lower per string? You couldn't on the Kline that I saw. |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 11 June 2003 04:30 AM
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More than one raise or lower?
Depends what you mean.
Most guitars have three holes for raise and three for lower. But exactly WHAT is being raised or lowered? If you are pulling up your B to a C# three times (as I do on mine) You'd use up all three holes. BUT you are only *raising the B to C# * on all three.
On the kline this is no problem-- the 5th string is set at the end plate to raise to a C# and if I wanted every pedal to do it, there would be no problem.
So the question is How many *different* notes do you want to move each string to?
The kline can easily move one up, one down, and one either up or down.
This takes care of most tunings. On mine, the 3rd row of holes are used for the E to F on the 4th string, and the G# to Bb on the 6th string.
And I have 6 pedals and 8 knees-- and it is all handled with ease.JW |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 11 June 2003 11:26 AM
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The Kline that I saw was more like a cables and pulleys underneath, altho there were rods where you would see cables on a Fender.Where the Fender had pulleys, the Kline had something similar to allow one pull rod to pull two others as far as each was allowed to go, the limit being set at the changer. There would be no way to pull, say, E up to F with one pedal, and up to F# with another pedal. |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 11 June 2003 01:33 PM
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On my Kline I have the 4th E going to F on one knee, F# on a different knee, and F# on the C pedal. And also to D# on a knee.I also have the 8th E going to F on a knee, D# on another knee, and D on another knee. All these stops tune at the end plate. |
ebb
Member From: nj
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posted 11 June 2003 03:21 PM
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i don't remember yokes on the kline like on the zb[This message was edited by ebb on 11 June 2003 at 03:25 PM.] |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 11 June 2003 05:42 PM
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rick troyer plays a kline and it sounds great, thanks G.P.[This message was edited by Gary Preston on 11 June 2003 at 06:01 PM.] [This message was edited by Gary Preston on 11 June 2003 at 06:02 PM.] |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 12 June 2003 09:46 AM
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Yess, a Kline has yokes sorta like a ZB. |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 12 June 2003 03:54 PM
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My first guitar was a Miller. Then I got a Bud Pro. Both from Ralph Henzil in West Allis, Wisc. When I moved back to Cleveland/Akron area, my band was auditioning for shows at Ponderosa Park. I saw some guy carrying in a tenor saxaphone case. I thought, " What's he gonna do? Play Boots Randolph stuff?" He opened his "sax" case, and out came a Kline! A few months later, I bought one. It was like going from a Model T to a Rolls Royce! Great sounding guitar, Never needs tuning. The build quality is truly amazing! Space program type tolerances. A wonderful guitar.
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Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 12 June 2003 04:00 PM
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EB says:
"There would be no way to pull, say, E up to F with one pedal, and up to F# with another pedal."Oh yes there is! If there wasn't I wouldn't have gotten one! The end plate, which acts as the final stop, has THREE rows of holes.
The top is for raises, the bottom is for lowers, and the middle can be for either.
You can pull any string any number of times to a note tuned on the top row. Same on the bottom row. You can then pull any string up or down to a different note, tunable in the middle row.
Joe even had a way of having FOUR notes tunable on the end (i.e., 4th string up to F and F#, and down to Eb and D), but very few people ever had that need.
I have just taken a bunch of pics of my Kline and will get them up on my web-site within a month or two. JW |
Winnie Winston
Member From: Tawa, Wellington, NZ
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posted 12 June 2003 04:09 PM
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John says:
"Space program type tolerances"
Well, only where needed! Because the final stop for the string is at the end plate, everything underneath can be fairly loose. The hex crossrods are turned to rotate in 1/8" dia holes, and they are all a pretty loose fit. Although I have a few pedal stops on mine, the pedals don't need a limit on travel. When the end stops moving, the pedal stops. You don't have to worry about cross rods flexing, or pedal stops slipping, or anything. It is all very loose-- except where it is needed-- and that's in the changer and the stops there.
And it is like going from a Model T to a Rolls. The only guitar I've seen that is a step above is the Anapeg-- which might be like an unknown car made by NASA when they had some time to kill!JW |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 12 June 2003 08:55 PM
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WW, you are abdolutely right! The undercarriage has to be "loose" to work right. And it works perfectly! I was speaking more about the wonderfully perfect machining of all the parts. The whole "ethic" of Joe's construction methods is admirable and seldom seen in life. He was striving for perfection. A very interesting guitar. |
Tom Bradshaw
Member From: Concord, California, USA
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posted 20 June 2003 12:05 PM
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I am pleased to see this topic. I have worked on a few Kline's over the years and, I hate to say, they drive me nuts. Each time I work on one I have to reorient my brain because the changer adjustments (Allen head set screws) on the endplate functions the opposite of most other steels (the ZB being exactly like a Kline as one poster pointed out) I'm currently installing a new copedent on Don McClellan's S-12. He has sort of a universal tuning. I view the Kline changer as being a "modified" double changer. By that I mean, you can get two different pitch raises on any string, along with one lower or, you can get two pitch lowers on any string, along with one raise. Now wait; I'm not saying that you can't raise any string with every pedal; you can. But, you are limited as in my previous sentence. Here's the problem with that changer. On Don's guitar, he has found that certain string changes, which raise one string twice by two different pedals, leads to the intonation being inaccurate when he combines those separate pedals with other combinations of knee levers. Those different chords are slightly out of tune and he can't correct it without using bar slants (which aren't always possible). On conventional pedal steels with triple changers, you have one additional pulling hole to utilize. This separate pulling point allows you to obtain a true sounding note for those other chords you want to get when you use a different combination of knee levers. Next, the center hole on the endplate of a Kline must always be used for the shortest string change (say a half tone), whereas the permanent (outer) holes must be used for the longest pulls (full tone or more). Because of the special pulling rods needed for the center holes, one must always hook up those shorter pitch changes first. Keeping that in mind when hooking up all the pulls, is difficult to keep in the forefront of my mind. Lastly, I've discovered that when changing a complete copedent, it is best to lay out all the pull rods, then assemble all the other hardware over it (on the undercarriage). Like I said, altering the copedent on one of these is a lot of work...but writing this entry has been too. So, it's back to Don's guitar before he gets tired of waiting for it and becomes violent (as he is accustomed to do). My best to all of you. ...Tom
[This message was edited by Tom Bradshaw on 20 June 2003 at 10:05 PM.] |
Whit Wilson
Member From: South California
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posted 21 June 2003 09:36 AM
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I have a '70s Kline D10. It's the best wooden neck guitar I've ever played. The original PUs make it sound like 2 different guitars. One neck really honks & the other is really smooth. It's 24&1/4" scale length. It's made out of 3/4" birdseye maple covered in matte black mica. When I bought it, it had'nt been played in years & it was shipped across the country. Even though the strings were all rusty, it was in tune! Does anyone have a current # or email for Joe Kline? |
Catus Jack
Member From: PA, USA
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posted 24 June 2003 06:17 PM
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I have an U12 Kline since 1984 and I'll will never sell it. Tried other makes, but they just don't compare to a Kline. A great steel Joe.Catus Jack |
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