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  Too many pedals and knee levers? (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Too many pedals and knee levers?
John Davis
Member

From: Cambridge, U.K.

posted 05 January 2004 12:11 PM     profile     
I don`t understand why so many levers are needed, I have never had more than four, but if they are all doing more than one job, is that not the equivalent of eight??

Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 06 January 2004 09:18 AM     profile     
Larry , I hate to break the news to YOU, but at least fifty percent of the top fourty studio hits are done by Dan Dugmore on his Sho-Bud Pro-II with 3+4.
Larry Bell
Member

From: Englewood, Florida

posted 06 January 2004 09:40 AM     profile     
Where did you get your data, Kevin?

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Franklin
Member

From:

posted 06 January 2004 01:02 PM     profile     
Kevin and Larry....Pardon me for jumping in the middle of this. I hope to prevent a shouting match over either my credits or Dans. Once I see ALL CAPS over something pertaining to me, I get nervous.

This is documented and is as accurate an indicator as I know of, for this kind of data.

Music Row magazine tabulates all the hit CD's out of Nashville by calling producers and checking what they read on album credits against the producers memory. Once this is done, they varify everything from that point with the union contracts to make sure everyone is credited correctly for their work on a hit project.(They follow the money trail) It is a tedious project that is done every year by them.

After they get the numbers an award goes to the musician on each instrument for playing on the most hit CD's within a year. They list players, per instrument, with their totals for the year. You have to play on at least two hit CD's to get listed in the final award issue of the magazine.

Players that generally take this award acquire 20 credits. The highest I have ever seen in one year was in the guitar category, Brent Mason got 23. The most I ever accumulated in a year was 21. My score has consistantly stayed around 18 to 20 over the last ten or so years. Dan and Bouton consistantly range in the 8 to 10 range in the pedal steel category with Garrish one or two credits behind. Dan and Bruce have tied alot, if my memory serves me correctly.

(AGAIN, this is not my information. This comes from the information listed each year in the Music Row magazine)

Kevin.....Dan also plays acoustic and electric rhythm guitar on sessions. He is a multi-instrumentalist and a durn good one at that. Wherever you heard this, they must be adding his guitar credits to his steel credits to get those kind of numbers....I can see where you would have assumed all of his recording credits are for pedal steel.

As for the pedal thing, to each his own....Players can always debate with an example of why to study music or not, play Jazz or not, play fast or not, play slow or not, to have alot of pedals or not. I just hope our session work does not become the focus of this debate...Who works what proves nothing here.

I believe this has been a great thread, so far

...Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 07 January 2004 at 06:55 AM.]

[This message was edited by Franklin on 08 January 2004 at 11:07 AM.]

Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 06 January 2004 02:17 PM     profile     
Yes Paul, I did add the other instruments in and your numbers are correct. I just wanted to point out that there are people recording hits in Nashville who don't have seven knee levers on their guitar. Thanks for those stats by the way. They are interesting.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 06 January 2004 at 02:20 PM.]

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 06 January 2004 at 02:22 PM.]

John McGann
Member

From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA

posted 06 January 2004 02:32 PM     profile     
"Hits" are indicitive of sales, not musical quality. Otherwise, Madonna would be one of the world's greatest musicians!

The number of pedals and levers are not indicitive of musical quality either- it's the music, not the axe, it's the mind of the player, not the copedant.

Paul Franklin could play a one stringed instrument with no pedals, no levers, and one finger and play good music.

=========

John McGann, push/pull D-18, 24 + 16, and steroids for cartage. Been playing steel for 6 months and sound it.

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 06 January 2004 03:26 PM     profile     
Here, here, to Pauls comments and stats too.

One thing I am finding is different gigs really do use very different pedals/levers and the amount you go to them.

Jazz manouche I am all over LKL and LKV so's my leg is tired and walk strange,
P6 and a bit of P7 & P8.
And BE's P5+ P7 thing for Caravan.
Now I want a steel copedent for this style LOL.

Blues has a lot of RKR alternating with LKL + LKV and more P5 and tons of P6.

Country has a completely different PnL dynamic.

If you play many different musics you need many different PnL combinations. It seems impossible to have only one steel ideal for all ; including universals.

Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 06 January 2004 05:32 PM     profile     
John, this is not about quality of music, but the actual need for multiple knee kevers. If you play in a top fourty country/rock band like I do, I don't find the need for more than four knee levers. Quality of music has nothing to do with it. Its subjective. Some people think country music is ignorant and simplistic. I don't.
John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 06 January 2004 05:38 PM     profile     
Well, my wife is out of town, so I'm home early watching the kids, so what better to do than cross reference the current Top 20 Billboard Country Singles to the All Music Guide:

Hot Country Singles & TracksTM
Top 20 Positions /Issue Date: January 10, 2004

Position
1 There Goes My Life Kenny Chesney Sonny Garrish

2 Remember When, Alan Jackson Lloyd Green

3 You Can't Take The Honky Tonk Out Of The Girl, Brooks & Dunn Paul Franklin/Dan Dugmore

4 Honesty (Write Me A List), Rodney Atkins
Sonny Garrish/Scott Saunders

5 I Love This Bar, Toby Keith Paul Franklin

6 I Wanna Do It All, Terri Clark Paul Franklin

7 Drinkin' Bone, Tracy Byrd Paul Franklin/Dan Dugmore

8 Watch The Wind Blow By, Tim McGraw
Not listed, but it's his own band

9 She's Not Just A Pretty Face, Shania Twain Paul Franklin

10 Cowboys Like Us, George Strait Paul Franklin

11 Little Moments, Brad Paisley Randle Currie (yeah Randle...)

12 American Soldier, Toby Keith Paul Franklin

13 Chicks Dig It, Chris Cagle None listed

14 Hot Mama, Trace Adkins Steve Hinson (way to go, Steve …)

15 Hell Yeah, Montgomery Gentry Dan Dugmore

16 In My Daughter's Eyes, Martina McBride
Dan Dugmore

17 I Love You This Much, Jimmy Wayne Paul Franklin

18 Who Wouldn't Wanna Be Me, Keith Urban
not released yet, no credits available

19 I Wish, Jo Dee Messina Paul Franklin

20 Perfect, Sara Evans Gary Morse

Some records list two players.

One is unreleased with no credits.

Some surprises (you go, Steve Hinson. You too, Randle).

AllMusic is not perfect, but pretty close on the new stuff. Also, real album credits can be flawed, too.

Draw your own conclusions...

PS--Sorry for the crappy spacing--it looked good before I pasted it in...

[This message was edited by John Macy on 06 January 2004 at 05:49 PM.]

[This message was edited by John Macy on 06 January 2004 at 05:55 PM.]

[This message was edited by John Macy on 06 January 2004 at 05:57 PM.]

John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 06 January 2004 05:49 PM     profile     
sorry, double post

[This message was edited by John Macy on 06 January 2004 at 05:53 PM.]


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