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Author
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Topic: '' Old Sho-Buds ''
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Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 05 July 2004 04:09 PM
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It seems to me from reading some of the posts ,that a lot of people are trying to find some of the ''old'' Sho-Buds . I see that they differ somewhat depending on the player . Is it because they are'nt being made anymore or is it that they are a great steel . I have a Pro-ll custom that i bought new and i would'nt take love or money for it . It's a 1977 model . Still looks almost like new . I was just wondering out loud . I hope this is the right place for this . But i'm sure that someone will let me know if it is'nt . Thanks , Gary . |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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posted 05 July 2004 04:22 PM
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Right place as far as I'm concerned.I've got a wide pedal 8x4 ProIII Custom that I bought in 78, and have played way more than a couple thousand gigs with, and then some. Gone through a half dozen pickups and hundreds of sets of strings. Still returns true every time. I look in the F/S section and I see one brand in particular that now typically sells for half retail used. Sho~Buds seem to go for retail +30% or so. I could still get full retail out of mine. BUsh whipped as it is. Few factory produced guitars of today will be able to get 6 grand back out of them in 25 years. Can't beat 'em from where I sit. I've got a late 60s Professional hull I bought for 400$ in 84 in to D Marrs for a couple thousand dollar remanufacture, and I will still mostly gig with my ProIII.
God Willing, of course.
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Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 05 July 2004 06:16 PM
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Pro II is all you will ever need.There is no better guitar made today.I love Sho~Bud tone as much as I love push pull guitar tone.My favorite Sho~Bud is LDG and Pro I and II models.You can`t beat them with a stick.Some of my Bud`s I had and enjoyed.Every single one I was proud of. 
Professional 
Super Pro-aluminum necks 
LDG 
Pro III 
Super Pro-wooden necks 
Pro II I also had many more other Sho~Bud guitars.One of the best was a Pro I wine red color.Don`t have a picture,sorry.Great tone,one of the best. Db[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 05 July 2004 at 06:24 PM.] |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 06 July 2004 03:13 PM
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Wow what a great line-up of Sho-Buds . All very nice . I think that you are right the Sho-Bud sounds great . Mine is still a knock-out . One of the best playing guitars that i have ever sat down to . Also has the best feel of any that i've played , Bar none ! I hope that i did'nt offend anyone with my openion . Thanks , Gary . |
Dustin Rigsby
Member From: Columbus, Ohio
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posted 06 July 2004 04:27 PM
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I have tried to tell Gary that his Bud would look great in my music room. Of course,he would have to donate it,cause he won't take love nor money for it. I was hoping he would have compassion for his poor student. No dice,though he is kind enough to let me play some clunkers on it just about every wednsday  ------------------
D.S. Rigsby
Carter Starter and various six string toys |
Leon Roberts
Member From: Tallahassee,FL USA
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posted 06 July 2004 07:10 PM
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[img]http://picturehost.net/lrfl/006.jpg[img]
My old Sho-Bud. |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 07 July 2004 12:57 PM
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Leon , it's very nice . I wish that i was smart enough to post some pics of my Sho-Bud and my Williams . But i need to be educated . Maybe theres some teachers out there !!!. Thanks , Gary . |
KENNY KRUPNICK
Member From: Grove City,Ohio
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posted 08 July 2004 10:50 PM
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A red Sho~Bud ProIII with metal necks.A fine instrument. |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 10 July 2004 07:48 AM
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Yes Kenny it's very nice . G.P. |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 12 July 2004 02:23 PM
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Well this post has been here for a while and i cant believe that we dont have more folks responding than this . There has to be more Sho-Bud lovers than this ! Regards ,,,Gary . |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 12 July 2004 03:07 PM
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What's the Question???ha....Well I think everyone knows where I stand?? Sho~bud is the greatest Steel guitar ever made..and I think I'm going to finally get that tatoo-ed on my Forearm...
Ricky |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 12 July 2004 03:12 PM
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Sure Gary, there are... I personally would hesitate to call a ´77 Custom model an "old" Sho~Bud. Pre-´73, pre-nylon tuners, those are the "old" ones for me and from what I´ve heard and checked out myself, most of them have a tone far superior compared to the later ones. I have one of each and while the Pro-II Custom (late ´70s) certainly isn´t bad, it just doesn´t cut it compared to the ´69 Professional. The single raise/single lower changer is my favorite by far. I love those barrel tuners, when set up correctly the system is very stable and stays in tune very well. The only one that in my imagination is even better would be an early Pro-II with bellcranks and barrels, maybe Ricky will chime in on this.
I think by now I know what sound and feel and overall image I´m looking for in a steel guitar and for me it has to be an "old" Sho~Bud.
Damir, how could you ever part with that beautiful Professional?Regards, JH[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 12 July 2004 at 03:20 PM.] |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 12 July 2004 03:19 PM
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Ricky , It seems that not only do you know the question but you also know the answer !!! I love my '' Bud '' also . Thanks for your reply . You would love to sit down and play my guitar ,i'm sure of it . If you ever make it up this way please let me know . Regards,,,Gary . |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 12 July 2004 03:26 PM
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Thanks Joe . I cant say when i remember hearing one of the older guitars that you are talking about but i'm sure that i have and did'nt know it . Thanks for your reply . Gary . |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 12 July 2004 08:57 PM
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Gary; Joe Henry speaks Mounds and Volumes of Truth in my opinion. Actually I agree with EVERYTHING Joe Henry says and has said about what he knows and hears on Sho~Bud. I have played probably 15 different Pro II Customs alone, and I can see how you like yours Gary, no problem; as I've been actually playing Big Jim Murphy's Blue stained Pro II Custom for the last several months at every gig and his was probably the first one ever built and then re-built by Dick Miller and is one of the finest sounding/playing Pro-II Customs I've ever laid me hands on. BUT....as Joe mentioned; that is NOT the Old Shobud sound; as my '73 LDG just blows that one outta the water tone wise. Gary you have heard the single raise/single lower Big body Old Shobud sound, that Joe speaks of if you have ever heard> Lloyd Green; Pete Drake; Dan Dougmour; Dicky Overby; Jimmy Day and early Buddy Emmons(Night Life and Bright lights and Blonde haired Women)Recorded> just to name a few..ha....
The single raise/single lower finger was on the permenant; Fingertip; baldwin crossover and single-10 Professional; and "The Professional and first run of Pro~II's and LDG Model; then the nylon tuning system came out and more raises and lowers were eventually added to the fingers through the years with the later big body pro~IIs then Pro III and Customs and superpro and of course the LDG followed the mechanical changes along with. As soon as the rod started to be Affixed to the puller(Bell crank as ya'll call it) and distance was adjusted with Nylon tuner; that is still a mighty fine Sho~bud sound with double raise/single lower finger. Then later as the double and triple raise came around Later in the 70's; Sho~bud started to cast mold the fingers for production and not machining anymore and cutting down teh bodies and using inferior Maple; and that is when the Shobud mystique/sound vanished> IMHO. Joe is right again on how I like the pullers on crossbars and barrel tuners behind the puller on the rod; for the smoothest action of any Shobud I've played. Now the Rack pulling the barrel tuners is fine and can be set up to play super great and the best thing I've found to make that as smooth as possible is "Remove" a row of holes on each rack that are not being used(less metal pulled): example; "A" pedal ONLY raises strings....so remove the lower pulling set of holes(bar) and then you will have ONE Smooth playing rack and Barrel and of course the already Sound to die for. Oh Joe I forgot to tell you that, once you got set on what pulls you want for all your pedals and knees on that Professional...>remove the unused rack holes....>email me and I'll tell ya how if ya have done it/figured that out already..ha.
Anyway...as you can see; I can go on and on and then some, but I'll stop for now and give someone else their boasting turn..ha.
I love Sho~bud's and can talk Sho~bud shop for hours upon hours; but I'll rest now..aaaahhhhh.
Ricky
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Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 13 July 2004 11:06 AM
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Everything Ricky wrote is great, but I´d like to add one name to his list of players - Buddy Charleton, with the Texas Troubadours, from 1962 until about ´66, when he still played Permanents and Fingertips. Everyone has his favorites, for Ricky it´s Lloyd, but Charleton in those days is THE Sho~Bud sound for me and what turned me on in the first place. His awesome mastery and touch were emphasized by the "voice" of the Sho~Bud. The first time I heard it, I thought: "So that´s what it´s supposed to sound like..."Regards, JH |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 13 July 2004 01:54 PM
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Well it looks like that i've been educated a lot . It seems that you guys no more than i ever thought that could be told . I've seen some of the ''Buds '' that Ricky has re-done and they look great . I still would love to see and hear one of these monsters of sound up close . I wonder if anyone around here has one of these ? Are we talking mostly of the ''Professional '' models ? Thanks for your help . Regards,,,Gary . |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 14 July 2004 02:33 PM
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OH Yes Buddy C. of course...Good call Joe.
Gary; yes, mostly the Professional and Pro II and LDG with no more than double raise/double lower changer.
Ricky |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 14 July 2004 07:37 PM
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Thanks Ricky . You are very helpful . I have a lot to learn about the mechanics of the older guitars it seems . Again thanks . By the way when you did the recording for Linda Ley which guitar were you using ? G.P.[This message was edited by Gary Preston on 15 July 2004 at 04:36 PM.] |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 14 July 2004 09:22 PM
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On the Linda Lay and Bill Kirchen Cracker Barrel Projects; I used my Shobud Pro~II big body double raise/ single lower, that Dave Brazenski(sp?sorry Dave) now owns and it lives on through some extreamly talented hands> Go get'um Dave.
Ricky |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 15 July 2004 04:39 PM
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Thanks Ricky . I would have never thought that was a Sho-Bud on that recording . Somehow is was thinking of some other guitar . Thanks for the information . Regards,,,Gary . |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 19 July 2004 01:25 PM
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Another question . Did these older ''Buds '' have the round rods that the bellcranks were attached to ? I heard that was a problem for them . I know Ricky knows the answer to this one . Keep in mind i'm trying to get educated about the older buds . Mine has the hex rods . Thanks in advance for your help . Best regards,,,Gary . |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 19 July 2004 05:07 PM
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Gary when the Pro II came out; then yes, Sho~bud went with a round cross bar with a flat spot that the set screw of the pullers tightened onto. You got the wrong info if someone told you they were a problem...as they are Perfectly functional. Can you elaborate more on what someone said is the problem with them??? I've worked on over 50 Shobuds with this crossbar and zero problems with the crossbar. Problems I see; is someone trying to link WRONG knee lever brackets to the original round crossbar linkage and that's a NO NO. The square crossbars came when they started to be made from Aluminum stock and multiple hole pullers and straight adjustable knee levers and the brackets that held them and linkage for those parts were different.
To me this is the best/smothest pulling system Shobud ever made> ZERO flex ZERO friction.
Ricky
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Jimmie Brown
Member From: Fayetteville, NC, USA
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posted 19 July 2004 06:03 PM
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Friends, if Ricky tells you a rooster can pull a freight train.....hitch him up and move over because he knows his stuff when i comes to guitarsJimmie |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 19 July 2004 06:30 PM
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Ricky ,it seems to me that i was told that the levers would slip . But if there was a flat area for the lever to be mounted onto it seems to me that there would'nt be any slippage at all . I knew that you would be the one that would have the right answer . Thanks for your time and sound information . Best regards,,,Gary . |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 19 July 2004 08:56 PM
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Thanks Jimmie.
Gary yes the flat spot is where the set screw tightens to; but I have seen where they were slipping when I get them here and here's why.
That set screw is a 5/64 allen head thread and if someone uses a metric allen wrench; then it can be stripped and one would think they actually tightened it; but NOT...ha
Also another prob. is they don't use the flat spot and put the puller on backwards or tilted a bit; either way it may slip. So it's not the round crossbar that is the prob. ; it's the people working the equipment...ha.."Been there done that".
Ricky |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 22 July 2004 04:16 PM
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Thanks Ricky . Any good guitar in bad hands is asking for a problem huh ? Best regards,,,Gary . |
David Nugent
Member From: Gum Spring, Va.
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posted 23 July 2004 03:15 PM
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Joe Henry,
Buddy is now playing a Zumsteel and believe me he still sounds incredible. I have the great pleasure of spending some time with him every two weeks or so and he is definitely one of the greats, not to mention one of the nicest people you will ever meet. |
Joe Henry
Member From: Ebersberg, Germany
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posted 25 July 2004 02:50 PM
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David,
I know Buddy would sound great on anything, I have played a Zumsteel myself and they´re great guitars, but... THAT sound he had in the early ´60s is THE Sho~Bud sound for me! Hope you understand. I sure do hope to meet Buddy C. in person someday too, have played along with his recordings a thousand times and more and want to ask him if I´m doing it right at all... Regards, JH |
Leon Eneboe
Member From: Sisseton, South Dakota, USA
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posted 25 July 2004 04:40 PM
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I am the happy and proud owner of a (like new) ShoBud Lloyd Green. Although I also have a new Williams l2 stringer, which is what I play now, I still enjoy owning a guitar with the prestigious background and reputation that the LDG has. I probably won't ever sell it, even though I don't play it anymore.
Leon Eneboe, ShoBud, Williams, Peavey |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 26 July 2004 05:02 PM
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Hi, Leon . I also have a new Williams and an old Sho-Bud Pro-ll custom that is almost like new . And you are right i would'nt sell the Sho-Bud at all . I had it built for me in 1977 . It's a keeper to say the least . G.P.
[This message was edited by Gary Preston on 26 July 2004 at 05:04 PM.] |
Roger Edgington
Member From: San Antonio, Texas USA
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posted 31 July 2004 10:36 AM
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Joe Henry, I know how you feel about the old permanent Sho-Buds. I had one of Buddys old Madison Tennessee Sho-Buds for about 5 years. It played a little hard and was pretty worn but had killer tone. It had maple front and necks with a cocobola top with white fret boards. It did not have a back board at all. I have pictures of it somewhere. Wish I still had the steel. |
PAUL WARNIK
Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA
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posted 31 July 2004 11:54 AM
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Ricky D-I recently got the Pro-II featured at your "house of wood" that was formerly owned by David Osborne-It has brought me full circle now back to my roots from almost 30 years ago-and I'm loving it! Having owned almost every model of Sho-Bud from Maverick to Super Pro and all the early ones I think this is the best ol'Bud that I heve ever owned-It is "The epitome of Sho-Budness"  |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 31 July 2004 11:19 PM
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OH MY GOSH Paul; your kiddin' me?? How in the world did Dave ever sell that one??(like I'm one to talk..ha..) That is Dave's/Your Pro II Undercarrige that I pictured a few post up there pal....>and went on and on about this mechanism and the sound of these Pro II's or LDG with barrel tuners behind two hole pullers(bell cranks) is TO DIE FOR!!! but I guess you know that now don't ya.??? ha.
I bet you thought>: "oh that ricky just keeps talkin' about that and say this about that and bla bla bla and he needs to play a ?? and a ?? and"
But now you know why I preach that Particular mechanism eh???
Man that is so cool you scored one of them Paul.....go get'um man.
Ricky |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 01 August 2004 01:16 AM
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I just got my Pro-1 back from Duane Marrs today!
I'll post pix when I get someone with a camera over here.
It's great!
Fedex dropped it off around noon.
I played it all afternoon, got my pedals and levers adjusted, fine tuning, etc... and couldn't think of any reason not to take it to the gig tonight.
Just got home and had a great time playing this axe through a Black Box, into an RV3, stereo out to a Session 400 and a SF Deluxe (the deluxe was one of the back line amps).
This came from the shop (mid to late 70's... 'hope that qualify as "old"?) as a 3x1 E9th.
It is now an S10U 7x5 with all Marrs undercarrige.
Works like a charm!
This was my first steel, and now it's my new main axe! |
PAUL WARNIK
Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA
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posted 01 August 2004 10:04 AM
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Ricky-Well I thought that undercarriage looked familiar My first Pro-II was a natural D-12 that I got new in the summer of '76 It was the double raise single lower with the short nylon tuners-I like this one even better! Yes it is a fine horn! I had to change the pedals from Day to Emmons and reverse the knees as well-with a few extra parts from Duane M-I got this baby back to all stock with my set up-Yee Haa-  |
Gary Preston
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 01 August 2004 11:42 AM
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Thanks guys for all of your help and input . You guys are the greatest . It's good to see all of the experience that all of you have shared with me . Best regards,,,Gary . |
Gene H. Brown
Member From: Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada
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posted 11 August 2004 10:09 PM
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Hey Ricky,
I have one of the newer LDG Bud's and it has hexigon crossbars and I was wondering if you or anyone else has the same problem I do.
The set screws, no matter how tight you get them after a day or two of heavy playing work loose and this is a pain to have to tighten these things up all the time, does anyone else have this problem?
Thanks
Gene |
Dean Parks
Member From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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posted 11 August 2004 10:55 PM
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Pete-Pardon the off-topic interruption, but could you show the tuning and pulls? Thanks -dean-[This message was edited by Dean Parks on 11 August 2004 at 11:22 PM.] |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 12 August 2004 10:11 AM
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Gene; yes that is a common problem on the later model pullers....as that metal that the set screws is tapped into; is inferior metal; and so when the set screw hits the harder metal of the crossbar against trying to hold in the tapped threads of the inferior metal of the puller...well there ya have it..
Duane makes an exact copy of that hex puller; but more important, out of Real metal..ha..aircraft aluminum....and that's how you fix that..
Ricky |
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