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Author
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Topic: Tone is in the hands?
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billy tam
Member From: baton rouge, louisiana
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posted 07 October 2004 05:25 AM
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This is really a good thread! Some very good points and mostly all connected. Having played for about 30 years on around 20
or so guitars and more amp combinations I do believe the equipment(as Bobbye says) plays a large part, for this reason. If I am hearing tone-wise close to what I want to hear from my rig it is easier for me to focus on what I am playing and how I approach it, rather than try forcing the tone I want out of it. I think that being confident (knowing the parts) in what you play will make your tone better for the same reason. Just my 2(or maybe 3)cents.billy tam |
jim milewski
Member From: stowe, vermont
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posted 07 October 2004 10:06 AM
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great equipment might not make you sound better, but it makes sounding bad a whole lot more fun |
Jim Peters
Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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posted 07 October 2004 10:49 AM
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My tone on steel is just OK, I have pretty good stuff, a GFI ultra and a PVNV112., but I'm just a beginner. I can speak with more authority on reg. guitar. I have heard great numbers of players with the best equipment you can buy,play the right notes and have terrible tone! There are SRV clones that i have heard play note for note his songs, with American Strats, Marshall, Boogie or Fender amps, with no tone whatsoever! It's really only when you stop trying to copy someone else, that you start to find your tone. Otherwise you are trying to sound like someone, and you can never get there. I remember trying to sound like Clapton, or Hendrix, or buying a new guitar 'cause I had to play like Van Halen. Changing equipment can push you in the right direction of copying someones tone, but that's all. Most of the really great guitarists in St. Louis, I can recognize in just a few seconds, regardless of what equipment they are using. Equipment chasing is a long and fruitless journey, I know, I been there. If equipment were the cause for real tone, everyone would play the same guitar thru the same amp, and sound exactly the same. JimP[This message was edited by Jim Peters on 07 October 2004 at 10:50 AM.] |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 07 October 2004 01:11 PM
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Tone is in the EARS.Then they tell the hands what the're doing worng |
Jennings Ward
Member From: Edgewater, Florida, USA
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posted 07 October 2004 08:18 PM
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I just could not let this topic go by without asking this question.....If you do not believe that tone is in the hands,LISTEN TO SOMEONE "TRY" TL LEARN TO PLAY THE VIOLIN OR FIDDLE AS I PREFER TO CALL IT. Then listen to a good fiddle player. If you cant tell the difference well??????????Jennings Play steel for the beautifull angelic sound of if........ ------------------
EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, + |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 07 October 2004 08:19 PM
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Jennings, good point! |
Jennings Ward
Member From: Edgewater, Florida, USA
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posted 07 October 2004 08:21 PM
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I just could not let this topic go by without asking this question.....If you do not believe that tone is in the hands,LISTEN TO SOMEONE "TRY" TL LEARN TO PLAY THE VIOLIN OR FIDDLE AS I PREFER TO CALL IT. Then listen to a good fiddle player. If you cant tell the difference well??????????Jennings Play steel for the beautifull angelic sound of if........ ------------------
EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, + |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 07 October 2004 09:22 PM
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It's deja vu all over again...uh...Jennings, good point!  [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 07 October 2004 at 09:23 PM.] |
Drew Howard
Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A.
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posted 08 October 2004 05:39 AM
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Tone IS in the hands. Put picks and bar in the hands of a five-year-old, or a total newbie, and see what kind of "music" you get.Drew ------------------
Fessenden D-10 8+8 / Magnatone S-8 (E13)
[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 08 October 2004 at 05:40 AM.]
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jim milewski
Member From: stowe, vermont
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posted 08 October 2004 05:57 AM
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tone is in the hands......this is bad news for pick up winders |
Paul Matthews
Member From: Westhoughton, Lancs, England
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posted 08 October 2004 06:02 AM
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A little anecdote.I have played in rockabilly bands for years. We were playing a friend's birthday party. Said friend was a guitarist (punky background), so we thought we would get him up for a number. Our guitarist had a telecaster available, and had set it up with a nice typical tele sound. Said friend picks it up and starts to play, and it sounded just like birthday boys nasty cheap guitar! ------------------
Absolute beginner!
Bennet Freshman E9 3+3 |
Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 08 October 2004 07:35 AM
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If I practice, I generally sound better, If I can play through my good friends "Original"
65 Twin reverb, "The difference between that and the Reisue still amazes me" I also sound better, Greg
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Savell
Member From:
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posted 08 October 2004 08:40 AM
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.[This message was edited by Savell on 29 May 2005 at 06:59 PM.] |
Pat Burns
Member From: Branchville, N.J. USA
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posted 10 October 2004 04:52 PM
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quote:
Many of us have heard the story about Buddy Emmons practicing nothing but harmonics for HOURS without stopping.
...maybe he just got hold of some really good weed... |
Richard Gonzales
Member From: FITCHBURG,MA USA
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posted 11 October 2004 06:25 AM
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I believe TONE comes from the brain. The hands are just an implement to do what the brains tells your hands to do in order to acheive the tone your looking for. |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 11 October 2004 10:28 AM
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Tone is in the ears, I reiterate. ( and brain too of course ; processing it and only then manipulating the hands.)
Ever hear a blind person sit down and just make a nice tone the 2nd or 3rd time they hit a string.
Because they are totally focused on the sound.
And then hear a deaf person try it.
They can hit it with a visual and touch related perfection till the cows come home,
and sorry charlie : No Tone. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 11 October 2004 10:41 AM
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Classical percussionist Evelyn Glennie gets great tone out of all of her instruments, and she's deaf. She feels the vibrations of the instruments. She's an incredible musician by any standard. |
jim milewski
Member From: stowe, vermont
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posted 11 October 2004 04:36 PM
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yes, music is just vibrations, our ear drum picks it up, Alexander Graham Bell gave a class of deaf students baloons to hold between their hands and put on a recording of classical music, upon hearing the music a big smile came across their faces with oooohs and aaahhhs |
Jordan Shapiro
Member From: Echo Park, California, USA
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posted 13 October 2004 11:23 AM
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I've been playing for about three years now, and just recently it has dawned on me how important touch is to this game. I was told early on, (after playing in front of one of my respected peers) that this is an instrument of touch. I understood, but didn't "get it" right away. I figured if I was "touching" the right strings at the right time, well, that was good enough. Not so. Recently it has come to my attention that no matter what I am playing or playing through, my feelings must translate to the strings correctly. For me, that involves playing without having to think about what I am doing, and using my picks as a medium to convey what I hear in my head. Pedal movement has also come to my attention here. I can't just hit the right pedal or lever at the right time and get the right note. It doesn't always sound like I want it to. I always have to remind myself that I am not making "notes" or "chords", I am trying to make or add to "music" or "songs". I strongly urge anyone who thinks that guitars and amps will solve their tone problem, to buy Lloyd Greens newest cd and play along to it with the same set up Lloyd used to record it. Touch and Feel Phrasing and Technique Dedication to Music These seem to be the building blocks of a strong steel guitar player. I could say all of these things about Redd Volkaert on the six string as well. Touch is quickly becoming my most important goal in playing, and seems to be a permanent solution to my tone problems, where as changing my amp settings, or effects always ends up being a temporary solution. Now I just have to figure out how to play the damn thing!!
Jordan |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 13 October 2004 02:54 PM
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Evelyn Glennie is an illustrious exception to the rules,
and more power too her.But the resonances of a drum against your hip is not quite like getting a steel to come to pitch at fret 3 and then fret 19 in a split second. Nor sensing the infinitesimal changes in touch needed to get "tone" on a steel. It is in a frequency range not nearly as easily felt. I have musically entertained the deaf, by sitting or leaning them on my bass amp during shows.
It always seemed to be a great source of pleasure too. A transmision to them, of what the room was dancing too. And I also edited dance music for the deaf for a live dance performance at a deaf school my brothers girlfriend was a teacher at.
She was not toally deaf, but if either hearing aide came out it woud feedback radically. For this song, the bass was boosted on one channel, and that speaker was placed face down on the wooden stage so they could sense the beat with their bare feet. It was an extended version of We Are Family by Sister Sledge,
And I had to be super carefull re-doing the sections with a razor blade, pre digital, so the beat was true, but the song made sense. Again it was th bass frequnecies, and also a few dancers not TOTALLY deaf acting like conductors for the profoundly deaf
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Bob Smith
Member From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA
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posted 20 October 2004 04:50 AM
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I think the size and shape, and strenth of your hands have everything to do with the tone you produce. Look at these guys that have huge , fat fingers like Danny G., Redd V., Leslie West, Johnny Hiland, and so on they all produce a killer, big , rich tone!! Big hands are usualy stronger too, which has alot to do with the tone a string makes. Maybe this is just my imagination running wild, but its something ive noticed over the years. I shook John Hugheys hand at the steel show in Conn. last fall and it felt like he coulda lifted me off the ground with that hand!! So, I beleive strong hands produce strong tone. Bob |
Terry Sneed
Member From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA
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posted 20 October 2004 07:16 AM
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well, after listening to about 12 different steel players last Sat night, each playing different guitars and amps, or amp, I can say for sure, tone has a LOT to do with your equipment.
absolutely positive!
Terry------------------
84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord. [This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 20 October 2004 at 07:17 AM.]
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Danny Hullihen
Member From: Harrison, Michigan
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posted 20 October 2004 07:36 AM
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You're right. "It's In The Hands" :-)
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Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 20 October 2004 05:03 PM
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I think it helped me a lot by starting in 1948 with a six string lap steel , a gibson amp with a 6" speaker.Plastic finger picks and a lot of desire. With Little Roy's picking on Eddy Arnold and a few Jerry Byrd records,this gave me an idea of what tone was all about.Now I have the best equipment money can buy One Legrande l11, one MCI D-10, one Sho-Bud and two D-10 p/p guitars.
I still get the old lap steel out and run some ting-a-ling and slants up and down the neck.I can usually pick a few notes on string five or six on most guitars and get the tone I want.My two cents.... Old Bud |
Mark Vinbury
Member From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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posted 20 October 2004 07:32 PM
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This is a fantastic thread.To be able to access this info and all these opinions is overwhelming.My own feeling is good players are set up, "wired",to produce the sounds in there heads.The sounds are clear and flow is easier for some and others have to struggle with real or perceived roadblocks.We have those sounds in our heads which is why they resonate for us but we can't all produce them. Most all are good players way before they have good equipment.Look at Jaco, SRV,BB King the list could go on...Most played beaters you wouldn't pay $50 for.They couldn't afford more.I'm new to steel but it seems like the same is true here.Most revered steel players got to be notable before great instruments were available to them.IMHO once a player finds their voice in an instrument then it can be enhanced with money. |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 20 October 2004 08:25 PM
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"Look at these guys that have huge, fat fingers " Joaquin Murphey had small hands, still he got a pretty FAT tone on those old Cooley records.[This message was edited by Dan Sawyer on 20 October 2004 at 08:26 PM.] |
Corky Owens
Member From: North Richland Hills, Texas, USA
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posted 21 October 2004 12:03 AM
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If nothing else comes from this great post, listen to Paul. I've spent 25 years trying to do what Paul,Tommy,Buddy,Lloyd and numerous others do everytime they play. I still work at it every day. Listen and learn from the best.------------------
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Mark Vinbury
Member From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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posted 21 October 2004 05:58 AM
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I have to agree that there is somthing in the strong hands= more tone idea.I think it relates to guitar more than steel.Strong hands wrestling thicker strings equals better tone.I've been checking out guitarists for 40 yrs and have seen a lot of big guys get great tone with less electronic assistance.Seems like the long thin fingered guys like myself do a lot of equipment tweaking.Maybe the grass is just greener-- |
Mark Vinbury
Member From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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posted 21 October 2004 06:12 AM
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^[This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 21 October 2004 at 06:28 AM.] |
Charles Turpin
Member From: Mexico, Missouri, USA
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posted 21 October 2004 12:58 PM
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This is a great thread, But a lot of people doesn't realize just what putting these tones out from the brain to the fingers does to even some of the listeners. In the last four years even though i haven't been playing out in the public. I feel i am starting to feel my notes more. The music that we are playing people don't realize is even medically used. Music has a very Mysticaly use to the body.So there is mystical things in making that music. There even has been a study how that music helps control pain in cancer patients.
We develope our tones i think naturaly and they come out on our instruments.
A great guitar player once told me the trick to any musician is to first get it in your head, then the trick is to get it from your head to your hands. I use to play rock guitar when i was young but i never could get the fuzz tones and effects that they had back then to sound just like the big pros. But if i turned them off i could play anything i wanted to there music. I was being me and not someone else. To me there is a line you have to draw. Paul is one of my favorites when it comes to picking so is Lloyd and Buddy. But when i study a piece of there music i don't study how they personaly done the piece. I study the Scales or chords the intervals that they have used. I can't be a Buddy or a Doug. But i can be a Charley. But the pros they have giving me the tools that i needed play a certain piece when i feel it. Or ever need it. We can take those tools and develope our tone ourselves.------------------
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Harold Parris
Member From: Piedmont, Alabama USA
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posted 24 October 2004 01:44 AM
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Yes, a great portion of your tone is string attack and hand placement. You can let 5 different accomplished steel players sit down at the same guitar with the same amp setting and each will get a slightly different tone. Many amps and steel guitars have been bought and sold beacause of this fact. We always are wanting a setup like our mentor has so we can sound like them.------------------
Sierra Session and MSA Classic Guitars, Nashville 400, Session 400, and Evans FET 500 HiVolt, and Gretsch Nashville Pro Steel Amps, Keith Hilton Digital Sustain pedal and Digital Sustain Box .
Harold Parris email hparris9@aol.com |
Bill Stafford
Member From: Gulfport,Ms. USA
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posted 24 October 2004 04:40 AM
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Two more cents----One year at the Joliet, Il. Hawaiian show Jerry Byrd, Master of Touch and Tone, was there. I was programmed on the show just before Jerry. Jerry borrowed someone's double 8 Fender and asked to use my amps since they were already on stage. Without changing any settins on my two Evans 500 amps, Jerry's TONE came through loud and clear from the first string he touched to tune the instrument. And this on a strange steel and amp with the settings I used. ("Strange" meaning not Jerry's familiar steel guitar). Same for the amp and all the "tone" settings. Listening to this tone while he tuned up was a thrill for me. Jerry's sound, touch, feeling, tone and heart and soul was all there instantly.
I can now proudly say that my amp now sounds like Jerry Byrd-but, alas, only when HE plays through it on any instrument HE desires. Just my two cents....
Bill Stafford |
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