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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

you just said the answer yourself

it is how to pick and how hard or soft pick the strings
also very important where you hold or lay your hand (right hand)
closer to the pick up will result in a thinner sound (higher sharper sound)
closer to the maybe 24 fret it will give you a more richer sound ( more color )
also your left hand (barhand) playing on the frets or slide over the fret will give you a different sound

play just on the fret with a little rollin' from left to right and reverse giving you the vibrato you need.

try these things and hear the difference.

greetings

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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How exactly do you achieve tone with your hands?

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For the vast majority of us, just years and years of practice. There's no short-cuts, no special gizmos, and no secret techniques other than really listening to what you're doing. When most of us start out playing pedal steel, we're too busy "thinking and doing" to pay a whole lot of attention to how we sound. We have to think about everything we're doing. A and B pedal, strings 3,5,& 8, volume 2/3, bar on fret 7, let off the A pedal, mute after the slide back, etc., etc., etc.. It's only after we start doing most things automatically (without thinking about each and every one), that we can really pay attention to the sounds we're creating. The only aids I can think of that might help you along faster are to play with good musicians, and to record your playing occasionally...and then listen to it...I mean really listen! Close your eyes and remove all distractions, and just listen to the stuff you've recorded.

To become a good player you need to be able to play the NOTES you intend to. To become a better player, you need for those notes to SPEAK on their own -- people need to say 'YEAH'. To become better yet you need to be able to shape whether the notes are short and staccato or smooth and legato -- and know when to use each (yes, until people say 'YEAH') and to be able to adjust the tonal qualities or timbre of the notes you're playing by JUST USING YOUR HANDS and learn to make notes jump out at you or just lie there peacefully at your command.

Once you have those skills you will play the right notes exactly like you want them to sound, in a way that pleases the ear of the listener. If you choose notes well you will be an excellent player. The WHAT and the HOW are both important.

It's like learning to speak. You can be able to pronounce any word without knowing how to make a sensible sentence, but you won't be an effective speaker until you've learned WHAT TO SAY.

And most of it is in the hands. Buddy Emmons can get better tone out of a 2x4 with strings stretched across it than most people can with a $4000 guitar. There's a reason.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Years ago I was playing around on a steel at Harry Guffee's shop in CT. I guess it was after 1976 because I remember he had some Kline guitars for sale.
I played something, and a guy who was watching said, "how did you do that?" So I explained, which strings, and which fret, and which pedal, and he said "No! How did you get it to SOUND like that?"
And at that point I realized that I had "tone."
And you ask me how and I can't tell you. I use pics that are too thin, and a bar that some say is too big.
But... it comes from having the technique and then playing so it "sounds right." That's all I can tell ya!

I began to pick harder, kept it more simple and added more expression into my playing and worked on getting longer sustaining notes when I could. She liked it.

It has not hurt that I also play a Sheerhorn, a Gibson Mastertone and a 67 PP.

Had a friend tell me lastnight and many others over the last couple of years, that he really did not like the new guitar I tried several years ago. Going back to the PP was the cat's meow for them as well as for me.

A little guitar, a little technique, a little amp, a little Hilton, a little Black Box and A WHOLE LOT OF SOUL AND EXPRESSION can get you a little closer to where you want to be.

Nice post. When players are able to execute cleanly the notes and chords they love, a good personal tone comes along for the ride. I have never heard an excellent player with a bad tone. Although I may like some players tone better than others, none have a bad tone. To me, bad tone is usually heard at the beginners level until they learn how to block properly and before they master bar control. Setting amps can cause poor tone but that doesn't mean the individual has a personal bad tone if he/she is playing good. It means they don't know how to adjust the amp to emulate what they are sending to it.

WHY????? Because it requires days upon weeks upon months upon years of honing the skills. Note that I didn't say PRACTICE. Most folks don't practice in such a way to improve their connection to the instrument. Many are more hung up with learning this song or that lick to really concentrate. It requires the player to be self-critical, but objective about where you're at and where you want to be. Most people either 1) don't know where they want to go musically and/or 2) aren't willing to spend the time required to learn what needs to be learned. Many of us have heard the story about Buddy Emmons practicing nothing but harmonics for HOURS without stopping. THAT'S THE KIND OF COMMITMENT THAT'S REQUIRED and the price that must be payed to get there. Most players simply don't have the patience to try however long it takes to master all the various techniques that are required to make the joyful noise they hear in their head. That's what Byrd and Emmons and Day and Paul and . . . all the masters we know and love to hear have done. They've paid the dues and now they can play the blues.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

My 2 cents

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I believe all the above is way short of the above mentioned goal of achieving tone, IF you can't reach a high enough level of confidence.

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Hmmm, I think maybe that's my main problem.

although I do have more confidence in my playin since I started back after a 2 year layoff. but I get extremely nervous when playin in front of people and can't hit a right note to save my life.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

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Look out, here's my take, I can get great tone with a great sounding guitar and amp, not so great with poor equipment. Good equipment makes the "Tone Job" a lot easier.
Now, what say you?

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now that's what I've always beleived. that your instrument, amp, strings, etc,has more to do with your tone than your hands and fingers. is that not right? I understand what you guys mean by right hand placement, pickin the strings, left hand control etc.
but I still think your equipment has more to do with good tone than your hands. the way I've heard players talk about how much tone comes from your hands, makes me think they are sayin your hands are the most important aspect of good tone. I just can't agree with that.
Terry

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

Maybe this true story will help. After an interviewer commented "What a great sounding guitar" to Chet Atkins, he handed him the guitar and asked him "how does it sound now?" Chet summed this tone subject up in five words.

Emmons could play through the same bad amp with any guitar and make it sound like a million dollars. Don't get me wrong guitars and amps are definately part of the equation. But they don't provide the biggest part of any individuals tone.

Guitars and amps are like a professional painters brush. He can do a great job with any brush. The brush of his preference most likely responds to his touch a little easier, but it is still his technical skills that get the job done.

Paul

[This message was edited by Franklin on 03 October 2004 at 04:59 PM.]

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84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord.

The subject matter might be too deep for some beginners to comprehend, in fact. But every teacher of steel guitar should internalize the messages contained herein.

Just as a sidebar, totally parenthetical, Larry's first comment about being able to hit the note you want to hit brought to mind a pet peeve; namely, tuning the 2nd string to C# instead of D#. I can most certainly understand tuning that way for stylistic or mechanical (like on a PP) reasons. But when a player tells me "I tune to C# so when I accidentally hit that string, it doesn't sound so much like a clam," he's also telling me "I'm too lazy to really learn to control the instrument, and I'm really more concerned about appearing to be a steel player." That kind of gets to me, I guess.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 04 October 2004 at 07:37 AM.]

I took some lessons with Ricky Davis a couple of years ago, and before we ever hit a note, he had me put my hands on the guitar and immediately 'rearranged' my right hand. I had a very flat hand and Ricky felt that I would get better results if I got a bit more of the curve that you see that so many players have. I also set my stuff up at Tommy Detamore's place not long after, and he immediately saw the same thing and tried to help me get in a better position.

So I figured that's a couple of guys I could learn from and I've since started working very hard to break the flat hand habit. I realize that there are a lot of players with flat right hands that sound great, but for me 'tone is in the hands' started making a lot more sense when I got my right hand in a 'better' (for me) position and could hear the difference. I still fight a flat hand, old habits etc., but it's becoming more and more automatic.

Paul, your second post sums up my feelings exactly. If I were a player at your level, or Buddy's, or Lloyd's, I think I would soon grow tired of people asking a question like..."What kind of (guitar, amp) did you use when you played on such and such?" To me, it sort of belittles the player's talent, and it's analogous to someone of the period admiring the work of DaVinci or Michaelangelo, and then that person asking them..."What kind of brush or chisel did you use to create that masterpiece?"

As I've said many times before, the weakest link in the sound chain is between the seat and the steel, and anyone that's ever heard that old song/poem "The Touch Of The Master's Hand" knows exactly of what I speak. Indeed, the most significant part of the sound/tone equation is in the player's hands. That's why he's called an "artist".

Or...(my other favorite saying)

You can't buy "the sound", you have to make it!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 06 October 2004 at 08:13 PM.]

I would only add, regarding the "from the gear or the hands" question, I've heard so many really lousy tones coming from cream of the crop equipment, it makes me sick. Guys buy a P/P or some other great steel, or a vintage Fender or Gibson axe and a boutique amp and figure now they've got the greatest tone in the world. Wrong! At a jam session once I heard a guy playing a $3500 custom Strat through a Matchless amp, he was a decent player and his tone was thin and awful. Next guy got up with a Japanese Strat copy with a name I've never even heard of and a cheap transister amp. The guys tone was gold. This is where the "tone is in the hands" comes from. It also comes from having a good ear, and your hands working together with a keen ear, that can detect very subtle changes in tone and adjust the hands' touch, placement, all the other factors already mentioned - to get the tone that player desires. It takes time to develop an ear and time to discover and develop the techniques to achieve the tone. When a player has reached that level, then having a great guitar and amp will bring out the best. Until then, it doesn't matter what gear he plays.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 06 October 2004 at 10:47 PM.]