You could go with a new Carter Starter, but you may be more happy with a used single-neck guitar. You can find lots of options popping up on the For Sale: Instruments section of the SGF. A fair warning, but I'm sure you already know this, is that getting into pedal steel guitar ain't cheap. I suffered a bit of sticker shock, especially coming from a 6-string background, but I got over it quickly as I know it was the right decision to make. Careful--I hear this pedal steel thing is addicting!

By the by, what brings you to the instrument?

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~

So my question is what are some of you guys opinions on all the different brands of steels and what's the best set up (number of pedals and knee levers) for a guy that is wanting to learn ?
Number of pedals and knee levers.3 pedals 4 knees.Great for a newbie or Lloyd Green. As for guitars.If your on a budget.I would look for late model guitars that are good but don't have high resale values.Carters, Fessenden's,Derbys and maybe GFI's.

Since you live in the heart of steel guitar country go visit the Carter factory. The usually have some very good deals on trade ins. Talk to Bud Carter over there. He helped invent the thing in the first place !

The best thing would be to go out and meet some steel players at gigs and talk to them directly. The forum is cool but is pretty bogus compared to real life.

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Bob
intonation help

I also like the advice given about trying some of the local factories around the D/FW area. We are lucky that we live in the middle of a hot bed of steel activity.

I'd stay away from old guitars that will need a lot of work. that'll take the fun out of it for you. Lots of good used steels around that would be perfect for you.

Hey, on second thought, I hope you don't learn the how to play steel. You boys won't ever ask me to come play with ya'll again!

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Zum U-12 w/True Tone pickup
Peavey Session 500

Band Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi

[This message was edited by Mark Metdker on 05 December 2004 at 05:48 PM.]

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There's nothing like the excitement of walking thru a honky tonk parking lot and hearing the muffled sound of the band playing coming thru the walls and about the time you open the door the steel players taking a ride ,you know its gonna be a good night !!!!

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Second; E.C. wrote;

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The set up is somewhat different than emmons and other guitars, as the E or d lever is on the right side as the Emmons setup is on the left knee in.

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Last; prepare for frustration - and fight through it. And don't bother with a volume pedal for the first year. Blocking (string muting) is often a challenge at fist, but you will get past it. I remember a time of frustration early on for me when I almost quit because I just couldn't "get" blocking. Then one day - AH HA! You will find your way.

Best, -Dave

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Mullen D-10 - It's still one smooooth puppy!
Photo page: http://www.davidhorch.com/music

Seems like you've already gotten a lot of great advice from folks who know the subject way better than me, but I'll throw my 2 cents into the pot, too. I made the mistake a few years back of buying a ShoBud Maverick. Pretty quickly I was getting frustrated by the fact that there were so many things I couldn't do with only one knee lever. Of course, I could've carried on for years working on picking and blocking, but somehow, when you're looking for a particular sound, then not getting it is very irritating. Now I'm getting a much more advanced guitar and I'm looking forward to the challenge. Two things: 3+4 is absolutely the way to go, and don't miss the Texas Jam in March at the Harvey Hotel. If you're prepared to pay 1000-1500 you'll find plenty of good instruments for sale here on the Forum.

There's a great teacher near you in Mineral Wells: Ted Solesky 940-325-2057

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aaron

[This message was edited by Gabriel Aaron Wynne on 12 December 2004 at 12:00 PM.]

I would stay away from D/10's as well.
To me, if you're going to play the E9 - the second neck is a distracion.
Plus S/10's are relaively undervalued.
I just bought a '70 Emmons P/P with 3 pedals and 5 Knee levers.
Set up to my specs and guaranteed for $1850- from a dealer. Dana Flood in Maine ( who really knows his stuff)
It would have been $1700 except I wanted the fifth knee lever.
Should I need to get rid of that guitar at any time, I will be able to get $12-$14 pertty easy. Makes a lot of sense financially.
I'm speaking as someone who's paid full price for 2 brand new guitars in the last 14 months ( and one at a discount) If you buy new and pay full price, then want out , you're loosing a lot more than $300 loss.

Although there's plenty of debate abvout this and that, it's hard to find anyone who out and out hates the feel or sound of a push pull guitar set up properly.

[This message was edited by David Friedlander on 12 December 2004 at 01:42 PM.]

"If you buy new and pay full price, then want out, you're loosing a lot more than $300 loss."

Let's follow that mentality. . . Don't get a starter guitar, because you need to buy the full pro model. That way you blow more money up front and just in case you "want out," you'll "[loose] a lot more than $300." Also, if you get a D10, don't look down because you'll only get distracted. I guess you could say that if you wanted to learn western swing, the E9 neck would only be a distraction. Come to think of it, you should get a single C6 starter with 4 pedals and 2 knees.

Ah. . . that was informative. . . I think? Wade, please trust the diamond salesman and not the dude with the tour schedule. What do you have to lose?

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aaron

My tour schedule.
http://www.jambase.com/search.asp?input=band&searchstr=gent+treadly&stateID

From a financial standpoint, if someone buys a very nice pro model S/10 for $12-$1700 and they subsequently decide to give up the pedal steel, it's likely they can sell the guitar at a smaller actual dollar loss than on an $800 starter guitar.

Of course the right used D/10 might hold it's value even better- and maybe Wade might decide to learn C6 too.

I have spent the last 10 years learning the E9 neck. About 8 months ago I bought a D/10. My experience was that the second neck got in my way.
Of course many people feel differently- I was simply offering an opinon.

You might disagree with my rational, but what do diamonds have to do with it?

Happy Holidays and best wishes to all!

[This message was edited by David Friedlander on 12 December 2004 at 10:04 PM.]

A used starter bought @ $500.00-$550.00 will usually fetch the exact same amount. The loss would be around a possible $50. . . Divide that in the amount of months you owned the guitar and it probably would come out to a pretty cheap rental fee. Why would anyone ever buy a new starter guitar guitar unless no used were available?

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aaron

The first time I ever sat down behind a "starter" guitar I had already been playing a Marlen for about 7 years.
I can truly say that if my first guitar had been a starter, I would have given up.

Wade is already a professional musician- and he mentioned that he'd like to get an axe that would be useful "on the bandstand"
A starter? I don't think so.

Here's another reason: As mentioned, I was lucky to get a really nice , workable Marlen to start with. Today, I would not trade that guitar for anything- you know sentimental value.

None of the "starter" guitars I've ever seen could move a guitar player like a Marlen, Sho-Bud, or of course the old standby- an Emmons. Put wade behind an Emmons and he will run to get home and practice. Or make him suffer behind a plywood guitar no pro musician would want to touch.

BTW- thanks for allowing me to have an opinion.

To each their own, but I find a D10 more comfortable to play E9 on.

I also wouldn't want to be without the Vertical Knee lever; that's kind of great to have...

I got a Sho-Bud to start, and it was a weird model on top of that... Baldwin Crossover. It was good to get my feet wet, but I got something else in short order that had a more normal setup.

I definitely think that if you can swing it financially, getting a steel that is from a builder who is still in business is not a bad idea. You can always have a need for parts; having to wait a month to find someone who has the specific dingus you need could be kind of frustrating. Something you can change set up on eventually to your taste, without a world of headaches would also be a good idea (I don't know how to work on Marlen's, ZBs or Push-Pulls, and so I think you might find those tough to get used to.)

Opinions are like elbows, everybody's got one.

quote:

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Or make him suffer behind a plywood guitar no pro musician would want to touch

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Carter-Starters are NOT made of plywood. They are made out of hard rock maple, just like Zumsteel's student models, and almost all professional guitars.

BTW, the guitar and steel player for The Marshall Tucker Band was carrying a Carter-Starter and using it on stage the last time we talked to him.

In my opinion, Mr Wynne's got it right.

Get "Starterized" and start playing today instead of waitng to find something, somewhere, somehow, sometime from someone!
And that pretty well "somes" it up.

BTW, Carter-Starters are now available bundled with everything (volume pedal, bar, cords, and picks) but the seat and amp for a little more than the stand-alone price.

You can see the accessories package here: http://www.carterstarter.com/csaccpack.html

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John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars

quote:

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make him suffer behind a plywood guitar no pro musician would want to touch.

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Go figure

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 13 December 2004 at 02:30 PM.]

Personally, I play roots type Rock and Roll, and don't see myself going to the style of music which calls for a C6. If Wade's thinking of playing C6 we're really straying from the discussion of student model versus used pro model.

Quote from Nicholas "I definitely think that if you can swing it financially, getting a steel that is from a builder who is still in business is not a bad idea. You can always have a need for parts; having to wait a month to find someone who has the specific dingus you need could be kind of frustrating. Something you can change set up on eventually to your taste, without a world of headaches would also be a good idea"
Sound advice which precludes buying a student model.

I've never owned a Sho-BUd- but I have heard that they are difficult to work on.
I've also heard the same things about Marlen guitars- but mine is a straight up all pull guitar. I've had no problems adjusting the action, or changing pulls.

I also love a vertical knee lever- but it's not absolutely essential. As Nicholas pointed out, if Wade were to buy one of many different models on the market today, he could easily have the vertical added later.

Ronald: I apologize for my incorrect categorization of plywood. I was implying that starter guitars simply feel cheap. My apologies to folks that DO build nice instruments from plywood.

I did not know what material any particular starter guitar was made of, nor did I mention any guitar by name.

I went with a pro-level used guitar when I started, an MSA Classic S10 E9 3x4, despite wide availability of starter instruments. ...No regrets...

Do consider that even with a pro level instrument - I made a decision to make life more complex and changed to an Universal S12 5x7 within a year...

[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 13 December 2004 at 05:16 PM.]

-Travis

[This message was edited by Travis Bernhardt on 14 December 2004 at 12:59 AM.]

Great that you finally got a good, professional instrument to enjoy. I had the luck to get a great psg as my first as well.
Chances are that you'll be highly addicted!

Happy steelin'

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com