A couple of people objected in prnciple when they were told there would be a steel present, but once we started playing, everybody dug it and I got a lot of nice comments along the lines of "I was worried that it wouldn't fit it, but I like it."

It helped that I set the amp at a low enough volume so as not to overpower the acoustic instruments.

If you think steel guitar can be a part of bluegrass music, or an electric bass -- or whatever, it is. But it helps if the rest of the band feels that way, too! Heck, Jethro Tull made the flute rock and roll!

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

I hear this one a lot. It's a huge misconception.

The vast majority of bluegrass is played at medium or slow tempos. but most people identify with the "breakdown" tunes, which are really "gimmicks".

When you hear a younger "bluegrass band" play almost all fast material with showy breaks and flashy instrumentals - they've missed the point.

Bill Monroe was quite a purist and did not care for the Dobro in his music. Buck/Josh Graves was kinda looked down upon by him at the time because the Dobro hadn't quite been mastered.

Flatt & Scruggs didn't mind Buck and his Dobro so much and we (steel/dobro players) were allowed to evolve.

Nowadays, Jerry Douglas pretty much tears any one a new backdoor. I couldn't imagine going to Bluegrass Festival and not hearing a Dobro. It really needs to be there now.

Rob Ickes, Mike Auldridge, Mike Witcher.
Lot's of good dobro players out there.

They all crazy amplifiaction(not just dobro, but also fiddle, banjo, mandolin, flattop and bass) All with dual pickups(microphone + magnetic/piezo) and killer preamps...Avalon SP 737. We can't just camp around the single mic no more.

So i say learn more tunings/techniques.
And know the songs/repertoire (Big Mon, Little Sadie, Salt Creek, etc..)
I may play steel for a couple tunes and then dobro. If someone mouths off, i will pickup their instrument and play the song. After all,
music is music and the same 12 notes on the mandolin can be found on the steel.

I have a change on my C6 that gives me a real Dobro tuning across middle 6 Strings)

Listening reccomendations:
The Resocaters(Hal Rugg playing a pedal bro w/ mike auldridge)
John Hartford(a bluegrass king w/ buddy emmons ripping "Gentle On My Mind"
Osborne Bros. ( Hal Rugg again > Rocky Top)
Doug Jernigan (Speed Picking and Country Ballads)
Nitty Gritty -Will The Circle be unbroken Vol 2 & 3

[This message was edited by Rand Anderson on 21 March 2006 at 04:01 PM.]

Buck Graves IS (Uncle) Josh Graves, his real name is Burkett Graves.

I would say he was more than tolerated by Flatt & Scruggs. He became a featured soloist in that band for years until they disbanded in 1969. Earl Scruggs showed Josh, among other moves, the three-fingered roll on banjo, and Josh adapted it to dobro.

Everyone who plays the dobro in "the modern style" owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to Uncle Josh. Jerry Douglas would be the first guy to tell you that. Some of his signature licks are like Uncle Josh licks on steroids, using a strong and agressive right hand for picking.

I think there are at least 101 stories out there why Monroe wouldn't have a dobro in his band-so I guess we will never know the real reason.

Brett-I'm not a big fan of "pigeonholing" music into categories (though Bill Monroe was apparently pretty adamant about what is/isn't bluegrass) but the Louvin Brothers it is pretty safe to say, were considered country music-not bluegrass.

I have that tribute album myself-it is excellent-great steel as you mentioned and also some killer dobro by Randy Kohrs!

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Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 21 March 2006 at 03:54 PM.]

quote:

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And as far as the flashy instrumentalists, only Tony Rice sounds good playing like Tony Rice.

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Dr. Gambrell, I couldn't agree more. To paraphrase the great Charles Mingus speaking of Charlie Parker:

"If Tony was a gunslinger, there'd be a lot of dead copycats!"

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Bluegrass is one idiom where it's CRITICAL to understand that there are essentially 3 parts of each "beat...the front (or "drive"), the center, and the back, or what I call "chasing". "Chasers" in bluegrass kill your band. But in jazz, horn players almost always play on the back. Vocals need to be in the center, usually.

Inexperienced bluegrassers need to be taught to think of the "drive"...then they'll *usually* hit the center. If they try to play ON the beat they'll drag the song like an anchor.

The main reason hard core bluegrassers would object to pedal steel, is that traditionally, bluegrass is played on acoustic instruments. The people I play with at jams and festivals don't care if my Dobro is tuned to open G, or C6 like Barney Issaacs - just that I can play it, and that it's acoustic.
Another characteristic that has been mentioned here, is the drive - while it isn't necessary to play fast, it is important in most cases that the the emphasis is placed on the off-beat in bluegrass. The old country stuff stressed the one and three of a measure, that's one of the places Monroe differed from what others were doing, listen to Jimmy Rodgers' Mule Skinner Blues, and then listen to Monroe's.
Bill Monroe also favored keys that people didn't typically play in at the time, like B.
On a final thought, one of the most influential banjo players since Mr. Scruggs, is also an accomplished pedal steel player - Bill Keith.

PS - The most recurring reason I hear for Monroe not liking Dobro was because he was mad at Flatt & Scruggs (especially Scruggs). Though Barbara Mandrell did play it on a recording with Monroe. Don't remember which one.

Ok... I'm rambling....

In the mid-seventies Benny cut an album for Flying Fish records, featuring Buddy on great tracks like "Smell good on Sunday" and "That's a good enough reason" among others. The whole album feels like a real labor of love from all the participants (Lester Flatt and John Hartford among them). Don't miss this one!

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000

Touchdown!

that's a great enhancement to my point - I notice there are two groups of people - those who clap on "one and "three", and those who clap on "two" and "four".

1/3's seem to gravitate to country.

2/4's bluegrass and blues.

But I think it is overgeneralized to even characterize all traditional country as on-the-beat 1&3. Guys like Waylon Jennings most typically used the prototype heavy 1&3 feel. But a typical Ray Price style country shuffle has a 4/4 walking bass with swinging off-beat 2&4 accents, typically snare. The walking bass and more swinging feel certainly make it different than the classic bluegrass feel, but it sure isn't straight 1&3. A good player can work with a lot of different rhythmic feels.

Switching the gears to rock, one guy I never cared for, though he certainly had dexterity, was Alvin Lee of Ten Years After. Maybe he had some tracks on different albums I might have enjoyed, but I didn't give him the chance. I just remember the machine gun pace of their version of "I'm Goin' Home" and Alvin filling up every possible bit of air space with notes.

As opposed to say the great Albert Lee, playing his tele with Emmylou's Hot Band, and how on a bluegrass-oriented piece he would nail it perfectly.

Hank DeVito on pedal steel in that band had a great feel for the bluegrass oriented tunes.

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Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 22 March 2006 at 08:52 AM.]

"The term 'bluegrass', according to the real historians, wasn't coined until 1947, when Earl Scruggs started playing with Bill Monroe. He was doing the fast mandolin chops that had never been heard before. And Earl's fast banjo on top of that just turned the music into something different. Some promoter said, 'That's bluegrass music,' because Bill came from Kentucky. And [Monroe] didn't want to be called that, but he hadn't thought of another term, so 'bluegrass' was what it became."

Now, I'm not saying that the above is completely true, but speed obviously (well, to me) had something to do with the term bluegrass being coined, albiet a lot of their tunes were not fast.

20 tunes..

Although there are no liner notes my money has Doug on Steel and possibly Jimmy Capps on Electric along with Frenchy's fiddle playin'...

This is some awesome pickin' at some pretty warp speed meter..the CD contains many of the top known Fiddle breakdowns..

Terry

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Mullen D10 /8x5 / session 500rd/ American Strat Highway 1 model
pickin for Jesus

quote:

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I think there are at least 101 stories out there why Monroe wouldn't have a dobro in his band-so I guess we will never know the real reason.

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Offhand, I'd say it was because he was a "purist", in the purest sense of the word. You see, when you talk to real, hard-core bluegrass fans, they'll tell you (in no uncertain terms) that Ricky Skaggs and Alison Krauss are about as "real bluegrass" as Barry Manilow is "real rock-n-roll".

Trust me, I've been there.

I'm using a MatchBro with my Franklin for the "dobro" sound.

This is true, I'm sure. I've been at Bluegrass festivals where Sam Bush and Dave Grisman have played and listened to the reactions of the Bluegrass police - which was overwhelmingly negative. I've never understood it, it is almost as if they can't hear what's being played.

So Robbie is the player on all those early cuts ?

Great stuff..

Hell of a player for sure..

I stand corrected..
as usual..

t

I believe Robbie was not even 18 (and Randy not much older) when they did "Big mamou" in '74. I was 15 then and was totally blown away by that record. Still a favorite.

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, ca '72 AWH Custom D10 8+3, Peavey Nashville 1000

[This message was edited by Per Berner on 25 March 2006 at 09:38 AM.]

I've never worried about terminology, and I don't think the early greats did, either. Jimmie Rodgers, who we think of now as a country singer, was singing blues as much as country. Remember that he accepted the Hawaiian guitar in his backing without questioning whether it was authentic to country music, which, of course, it wasn't at that time.