Wayne
MSA D10 8/2
usnyn2nd@verizon.net

http://www.don-mclean.com/guitars/nashville1.asp

http://www.guitarweek.com/lessons/nashville.php

http://www.gospelmusic.org.uk/resources/nashville_numbering.htm

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 24 April 2006 at 04:23 PM.]

Now, you may wonder why not just call the chards what they are – C, F, G, C. That would be fine if we never wanted to play the song in any key except C. By using the number system and writing the progression as 1, 4, 5, 1, and anyone who is familiar with the Nashville Number System can play the correct progression in any key. Let’s say for example that you always play a certain song in Eb, but you have charted the song using the number system. Now, you sit in with a band that has always played the same song in C and does not know the chord progression in your key. Since you have charted the song using numbers, the band can play it in your key very easily, because 1, 4, 5, 1 now means Eb, Ab, Bb, Eb – because in the key of Eb, the “1” chord is Eb, the “4” chord is Ab, and the “5” chord is Bb.

Study the chart below, and you will see how the numbers at the top of the chart can represent any progression in any key.

Key	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8 (Octave)
 C	C	D	 E	F	G	A	B	C
								
C#	C#	D#	F	F#	G#	A#	C	 C#
Db	Db	Eb	F	Gb	Ab	Bb	C	Db
								
 D	D	E	F#	G	A	B	C#	D
								
D#	D#	E#	G	G#	A#	C	D	D#
Eb	Eb	F	G	Ab	Bb	C	D	Eb
								
 E	E	F#	G#	A	B	C#	D#	E
								
F	F	G	A	Bb	C	D	E	F
								
 F#	F#	G#	A#	B	C#	D#	F	F#
Gb	Gb	Ab	Bb	B	Db	Eb	F	Gb
								
G 	G	A	B	C	D	E	F#	G
								
G#	G#	A#	C	C#	D#	E#	G	G#
Ab	Ab	Bb	C	Db	Eb	F	G	Ab
								
A	A	B	C#	D	E	F#	G#	A
								
A# 	A#	C	D	D#	E#	G	A	A#
Bb	Bb	C	D	Eb	F	G	A	Bb
								
 B	B	C#	 D#	E	F#	G#	A#	B

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quote:

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Steel players do it without fretting

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Thanks again Fellows. I GET IT!

For many years, "jobbing" was my primary game, i.e., on-call and working with many different groups and frontmen (or frontgirls).

Once you learn the chord progression to a song with the number system, the key is always "1"...and there is no new learning or rehearsal required to work a show with a different "star" singing the song in another key.

I have to be honest that I'm not crazy about using numbers for more involved jazz type charts though. Even though technically you can chart out anything with the NNS, it starts to look too much like algebraic equations when there are compound and altered chords all over the place.

I've only skimmed this one quickly so please forgive me if I'm repeating.

I think it's worth mentioning that "Nashville Numbering" is nothing special - it's standard musical notation with a different name.

It's also common (perhaphs even more so) to use Roman Numerals. Where the uppercase represent's a Major chord (I) and the lower case a minor (i).

And, yes, I agree with Rick that it works best with country and rock and not as well with 'less tone centered music' as some jazz tunes tend to be.

This is serious business. The objective for a session player is to listen to a tune once or twice -- chart it out -- and then record it, without missing stops, cues, solos, fills, or modulations. The system provides all that and more. There is really no standard. The key is to be able to write it so you can read it back when the time comes with as few bobbles as possible. This can include using a std notation -- mostly for rhythms -- and any other system that works for you.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

While in theory the 7th note of the scale (in triads) is in actuality an inversion of the 5 chord, in most instances (at least in the steel world, where we deal alot in country-type progressions) the 7 chord is a whole step below the 1.

For example, in C, the actual 7 would be the notes - from the bottom up - b,d,f, making it a 5 7th - or a G7- before returning to the 1 chord, as if you were going up the scale.

But in the real world on the bandstand you would just call that chord a 5 chord with the bass note playing a leading tone that would most often be leading back to the 1 - if you're ascending or leading down to say, the 6 if you're descending.

So, getting back the the 7, the chord a whole step below the 1 will be called a 7, and sometimes called a flat 7. In C, this would be a B flat.

Make sense? Sounds a little kooky, but that's the way it's done.

And one more bandstand trick... if you end up being the guy who gives the hand signals for the numbers to the other players... when you run out of fingers, we usually just put a thumb up for a 6 chord and thumb & index finger for a 7 chord.

[This message was edited by Skip Edwards on 25 April 2006 at 12:53 PM.]

I concure - I haven't seen NNS use roman numerals, that was my mind getting ahead of myself and refering to standard notation.

In all my time of playing guitar all I've ever seen when people refer to "Nashville Numbering" has actually been standard notation.
Which suggests that there is alot of misinformation regarding the NNS on the net - beware.

Looking at that chart I think I'll stick to standard notation.
I guess that's what comes from starting out in music on piano.

[This message was edited by Gareth Carthew on 25 April 2006 at 12:55 PM.]

Now, what about the 2, 3, and 6 being minors, and the 7 being a diminished? Is that only for the scale in chords? I mean, if a tune (in the key of C) is calling for say the 2 or the 6 chord, would the chords be D (for the 2) or A (for the 6) or would you play D Minor (for the 2) and A Minor (for the 6) to get the right sound?

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 26 April 2006 at 12:50 PM.]

But, in practical application the 7 chord is usually a major triad a whole step below the 1. And yes, it's often referred to as a flat 7 chord, (which makes more sense) and a 7 chord (without the flat) would therefore be a half step below the root. But in most instances when you see a 7 chord on a chart it's a whole step below the root. At least it is in most tunes and charts that I've come across. A whole step below the 1 seems to be a more common change than a half step below the 1, so it's never really been very confusing in application.

I personally refer to a whole step below the 1 as a flat7, thereby avoiding any confusion, but I've seen it many times notated as just a 7 chord.

And as far as the 2, 3, 6, or any other chord for that matter, if it's a minor it'll be notated as such. You'll either see a "m" as in 2m for example, or as a slash, as in 2-.

I've often seen an "x" behind a 2, 3, or 6, as in 2x, 3x or 6x, notating a dominant 7th chord.... Example, in C a 2x would be a D7th.

[This message was edited by Skip Edwards on 26 April 2006 at 01:01 PM.]

The reason I don't like Roman is stuff like VII gets unwieldy -- 7 is two characters shorter. I prefer it to be as simple as possible. The point that II for a 2Maj and ii for a 2m (or 2- in some folks' shorthand) is well taken. It's just not a convention I personally use or prefer.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Them minors helped me figure out why that darned C pedal was on the geetar to begin with

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 26 April 2006 at 01:35 PM.]

WHY ? because it's Comprehensive and explains all the used shortcuts like 'Birds eyes' and 'Diamonds' etc.
INVALUABLE.. we all should get it.

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quote:

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Steel players do it without fretting

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[This message was edited by basilh on 26 April 2006 at 05:30 PM.]

intro = 5511 (fifty-five eleven)
verse = 1144 5511 (eleven forty-four fifty-five eleven) think ray price
bridge = 1645 (sixteen forty-five)

noticed i have notated 4 bar measures and where the chord changes are......

now imagine saying:
it goes G and then G and then C and then C
and then it goes C and C and then F and F

what a pain....now transpose for that special sit-in guest that can only sing in Bb

The important thing when improvising, charting, learning songs, etc. is to realize that the fundamental MUSIC system remains the same, no matter how it's notated.

On the questions of when and why chords are major, minor, dominant, etc:
The chords in a "key" come from skipping every other note from the parent major scale. And doing that from each note in the scale. You can build chords with three note or four note harmony.
Three note harmony from a C major scale yields the chords: C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bmb5
Four note harmony yields:
Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Cmaj7, Gdom7, Am7, Bm7b5.

They all substitute for one another(C=Cmaj7), and can be played with extensions such as 9ths and 13ths, (more or less to taste).
This is why a progression such as "Help me Make it through the night" can morph from
C-F-G-C to Cmaj7- Fmaj9- G13- Cmaj9.

Realizing that ANY Major key presents the possibilities of the many variations on 1, 2m, 3m, 4, 5dom7, 6m, and 7mb5 will get you a long way to understanding songwriting and improvising.

While it is true that the BDF notes of a Bmb5 chord are the same as the upper notes of a G7, and they will substitute for each other, Bmb5 (or Bm7b5, B half-diminshed) is the actual 7 chord in a major scale harmony. The chord "a whole step below" at Bb major for the key of C would be the "flat seven" chord, and implies a departure from strict diatonic harmony, often used in a rock or bluesy context ("Sweet Home Alabama", "Can't you see", lots of modern country pop) in a similar way to the b3 chord (Eb in key of C, as in "Smoke on the Water")

Most people I work with notate the chords from a song as anything that deviates from the 1-2m-3m-4-57-6m-7mb5 pattern.
Common variations include 2major, 6major, 4minor, 5minor, among others.

Questions on where these "out of the scale" chords come from are often answered by looking at the immediate part of the progression where they appear, for example the common Swing 1-6-2-5 progression shows up as a succession of 5 to 1 chord moves leading back to the original key.

A close look at the scale/chord relationship also sheds light on why "modal improvising" works- that the C major scale works over Dm, Em, F, G7, Am and Bmb5. There are years of study right there!

One of the real strengths of the number system many miss at first, is that while a C or Dm chord don't have any particular "sound" by themselves... the chords within any particular key have a distinctive tonal color when they appear in a "number position"... for instance, 6m and 3m sound slightly but distinctively different, and their "sound relationship" is the same in every key. The sound of 4 to 4m is common in older country, and when 4m shows up by itself, it has the same distinctive "sound". So do the b7, 5m, and every other "out chord" (as I've heard them described on the bandstand). As you train your ear to hear these subtle differences, it gets much easier to pick up changes "on the fly".

The difference in tonal colors is invaluable to figuring out tunes or playing by ear, and thinking in terms of the number system is the fast track to categorizing those different sounds in your head, on paper, or when communicating with bandmates.

[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 28 April 2006 at 02:01 PM.]

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U12 Williams keyless 400
Evans SE 150, Nashville 112, Line 6 pod xt