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Author
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Topic: Fender Cable Convention
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Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 18 August 2006 07:08 PM
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Paul,Ed says you are a fan of the first string drop to C#.  Great work by the way! |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 19 August 2006 03:04 AM
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Russ - You're right! Ed made a convert out of me. But I don't play B6, so I felt compelled to add that same change to my Whitney E9/B6/A6 Universal. Just finished it a half hour ago. The pull is balanced with the 6th drop to F# and pretty accurately splits the A raise to G. Even with the 2:1 "accelerator" I put on it, it's still a long throw, but only 15.5 degrees of KL rotation. Tomorrow I'll mill an "escape slot" into the accelerator and add a weak spring so that that change can be engaged or disengaged at will. What surprises me is that there's no hysteresis on the change!! May switch to a .012" string to shorten things up a bit. It's a beautiful change. Sneeky obviously used that change on his legendary ride on Linda Ronstadt's "I Fall To Pieces" live recording. What a masterpiece!!
PRR |
Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 19 August 2006 06:21 AM
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Paul,That was one of the first songs I learned off the record on steel. I don't have that change...that explains why I don't sound like him! You are so right about that song. Russ |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 23 August 2006 01:14 AM
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Russ - I used to do a rather generic version of that song, but Sat. night @ Lostant IL, I'll now do Sneeky's version of it. Love that change!!!
PRR |
Steve Zinno
Member From: Spring City, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 23 August 2006 07:16 AM
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Paul, can you explain or illustrate the details of your "accelerator" ? I'm looking for a way to shorten that throw also. thanks for any help. |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 07:32 PM
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Steve - It's just a 2-to-1 lever. One end pivots on an "ear" I mounted in one of the front frame rail positions. A very short pushrod drops into a hole roughly in the center of this piece of flat stock. The rod that actually pulls the changer then goes into a hole at the outer end of the piece. I added a "runoff slot" adjacent to the pushrod hole so that I can reach under the guitar at any time and disconnect it. There is a small spring that applies just enough pressure on the pushrod to hold it either in the "drive hole" or the "runoff slot". There is a small shouldered nylon bushing on the pushrod to prevent friction when it's riding freely in the slot. I still have to experiment with a longer, therefore "softer", balance spring to lighten up the pull a little. I don't have a way of posting a pic yet or I would. I do want to snap a 35mm pic and send it to ebb or someone who can post it. This gizmo probably won't work on every guitar, but the principle of accelerating the travel motion could.
PRR |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 07:58 PM
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Paul, I 1) had no idea there was a way of shortening throw on any of this stuff, or 2) have ANY idea what you mean by the explanation - I think it's in "steel-mechanic-ese" or something. I don't even know what a 2/1 lever is, much less "ear" or "runoff slot"...so I'm living with a very long-throw LKL change to C# and no idea how to change it. I just connected a lever with a short crossrod to a...whatever the thing is with the holes in it...to a turnbuckle, soldered to a cable, to a loop at the changer just on string #1. I saw similar pictures and just copied them, having no real experience with ANY steels before, much less building one. I use that lever a lot, and it's a calorie - burner.I can scan/post pics if you want. I'd love to see it, because It's the only way I'll have the slightest clue what you mean. |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 25 August 2006 03:47 AM
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Jim - I'll be more than happy to "snail mail" a pic of this lever if you leave a "snail mail" address on my gmail. Simply put , it's a 2-to-1 lever to double the travel of the pullrod which activates the changer. That became such a long throw that I tried to shorten it up by "accelerating" its motion and merely picked 2-to-1 as its ratio. I came very close!! I use an .011" 3rd and an .022P" 6th. I just surmised that the travel req'd to pull down #3 would be roughly double that of pulling down #6. I came very close, so the answer lay in "accelerating" the 3rd pull 2-to-1 over the 6th pull. It worked. The slot I referred to was my way of disconnecting that pull when I don't need it or want to use it. Promise as soon as I get these 35mm pics developed, I'll send you one to post. As I stated in my previous post, it may not work on all guitars, but the principle of "accelerating" its motion would work on all guitars. I also stated that I have some "tweaking" to do on the balance spring to help "soften" up the pull. Remember that my guitars lower on the left and raise on the right. The present "lower" return spring is definitely too harsh. I'll work that out for sure. This is the 1st time I've even tried to get that elusive change and with my present work load, I've had to nip away at this thing minutes at a time. But rest assured, it DOES work!! When raising #1 to G#, the note is "choked" because of the increase in tension. When lowering #3 instead, the string slacks in tension. Don C. even warned of it becoming "ropey". It may be true on a keyed guitar, but mine are keyless, so there is very little string left to cause it to sound "ropey". I know exactly what Don referred to. . .if you lower a string beyond reasonable limits, it just plain sounds ragged!! I find now that I have to watch what I do re: volume pedal because the volume on #3 definitely increases when it's lowered!! Didn't know that would happen. I'll be playing I Fall To Pieces Sat. night in Lostant IL at a country/gospel jam and, for the first time, I'll be using Pete's licks on it. I've done it as an instrumental for over 20 years, but not like this!!
PRR |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 25 August 2006 09:35 AM
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Count me in, I've got a Fender 1000, but how's this for being maybe a little wierd. I also still have my D-11 ZB custom that I had built in 1968, also Fessy, BMI, Clark, a 1948 Ricky, and 1935 National resophonic, and I'm not a collector, just can't seem to bring myself to sell steel guitars.
Jim |
Gerald Pierce
Member From: Maydelle, Texas, USA
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posted 26 August 2006 05:49 PM
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Here's my "lowtech" hot-rodded Fender 400.
GP
[This message was edited by Gerald Pierce on 26 August 2006 at 05:50 PM.] |
Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 26 August 2006 06:40 PM
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Gerald, Looks cool! Rods? |
Gerald Pierce
Member From: Maydelle, Texas, USA
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posted 26 August 2006 10:44 PM
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Yeah...rods. It don't mean I threw the cables away. Just something I wanted to do. I'm really pleased with it so far.
GP[This message was edited by Gerald Pierce on 26 August 2006 at 10:45 PM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 27 August 2006 12:17 AM
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What's happened to the 'Convention' idea ?
Basil |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 28 August 2006 07:54 PM
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Fred - Are the PS-210 guys to be included in the Convention plans or just the "cable guys"?
PRR |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 29 August 2006 01:50 AM
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Paul, us PS-210 guys could hold a convention in a 'phone booth and still have room to spare !!All ?? of us .. How many are there ?
Basil ------------------
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Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 29 August 2006 05:19 AM
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Gerald,Did you make the rods or use parts available and modify them. How does the pedal action play? Thanks,
Russ |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 29 August 2006 05:43 AM
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Whooops, I forgot to do something about some rods.Gerald, email me.... |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 06 September 2006 07:11 PM
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What happened to the Convention idea??
PRR |
Gerald Pierce
Member From: Maydelle, Texas, USA
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posted 06 September 2006 08:44 PM
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Russ... I used the original pedal rods, but made everything else from the end of the pedal rod to the changer fingers, including the changer pull loops (I didn't want to un-solder the loops on the cables I removed from the guitar so they'd remain intact).
It works fine and feels good to me. I've made some minor changes to the system since the photo.
GP[This message was edited by Gerald Pierce on 07 September 2006 at 11:13 AM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 07 September 2006 11:46 AM
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Fred - Are the PS-210 guys to be included in the Convention plans or just the "cable guys"?
PRR------------------
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Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 07 September 2006 10:16 PM
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Could the "Fender Convention" be an added day or so on top of the Texas show or Scotty's in St. Louis?? What about the big shows in Saluda SC USA?? Speak up!!!
PRR |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 07 September 2006 10:52 PM
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I would be very excited to be involved in a convention of this sort, I have a Fender 1000 and an 800 that I love! How about also throwing in the Bigsby guitars since they are cable also?
Do this, I'll be the first one there, and I'll be in tune!
What can I do to help? Promote? Bands? Money? A location? I'm in boys! Bobbe Seymour |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 08 September 2006 12:43 AM
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Right on, Bobbe!! Let's not let this great plan die on the vine!!
PRR |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 08 September 2006 05:33 AM
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Bobbe, you are now "in the club".Man, wait 'til you get the bill for the dues - Russ, mail it! ;-) Bobbe - Is your 1000 a long-scale or shortie? PS - Guys, Doug Livingston found a local (to us in L.A.) spring supplier - I'm going to check them out and see if I can spec out part numbers for "softer" springs for both the old new changers. Still working on raise "helpers" - but my rubber-band system actually works like a charm. Hey guys - also, while I'm gatheirng up some stuff for Gerald, I also have a very pretty..I mean near-mint - 'burst 400 body (bare) and its black frame sitting here. I couls try to build another guitar, but do not have the money for all the parts I *don't* have (and you know how many I DO have!) - so If anyone is interested in buying it, or a trade of some osrt, let me know what you think - no idea of the value or what I'd want, exactly (except another 400 complete, or some other geezer-guitar). I noted this here only because it's kind of outside the buy/sell norm and focused on a small group. Have a great weekend gang! Jim |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 08 September 2006 04:44 PM
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Jim Sliff, my 1000 is a 24.5" scale, (I believe, but I never thought to check it,) Bobbe |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 09 September 2006 01:43 PM
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24.5" is the long scale older sytle - the "string breaker", which really doesn't if you set it up right.That's the same one I have. The later ones are the 23" scale ones like my 400, I beleve. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 09 September 2006 09:38 PM
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Yep, mine is the string breaker. |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 13 September 2006 03:12 AM
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Fred Layman - What happened to your original Fender Steel Convention idea?
PRR |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 17 September 2006 07:01 AM
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I hope one of you guys got this one - I saw it yesterday when Russ pointed it out. Man, I was bummed - I have ALL the parts to make it playable, but we just had some astronomical expenses come up the same flippin' day - so I couldn't bid.(insert sound of gnashing teeth here)
http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-Fender-400-Pedal-Steel-Guitar-8-String-w-o-pedals_W0QQitemZ130027834659QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130027834659 [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 17 September 2006 at 07:02 AM.] |
Nick Anderson
Member From: IL
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posted 17 September 2006 08:05 AM
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I am the one that bought the 400 on ebay.Jim Sliff: You mentioned that you have the parts to make it playable. Whould you be interested in selling the parts? I really have ever intention to bring this back to original condition. Thanks in advance! Nick Anderson |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 17 September 2006 09:17 AM
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Nick - I'll shoot you an email. There are some I might sell; others I was keeping just for this sort of find or as spares. |
Russ Tkac
Member From: Waterford, Michigan, USA
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posted 17 September 2006 09:37 AM
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Nick,It looks like a good one to work with. I passed on it last night because I couldn't came up with a good reason why I had to have it - got to keep the wife in the loop - but also I'd like an old style 1000. Keith Cordell had some Fender parts for sale.
Here Russ[This message was edited by Russ Tkac on 17 September 2006 at 09:47 AM.] |
Paul Redmond
Member From: Illinois, USA
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posted 19 September 2006 03:45 AM
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What happened to Fred Layman's original Convention concept/idea? Kinda got lost in the shuffle!! Isn't that what this thread was all about in the first place??? HELP!!
PRR |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 20 September 2006 01:40 AM
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I'm still interested in coming to the convention, when and where is it?
Baz |
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