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This topic is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
Author | Topic: Dreams can become reality |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() If the string length is diffrent on each string on the same neck, the ferther up the neck you play,the worse the tuning problem will be,no matter how picky the player is.Or who he is,the problem isn't with the player,it's with the guitar. The player can be blamed only for buying and playing a poorly designed instrument. I know of no guitar being built this way in this day and time. Thank goodness. Bobbe |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Donny Hinson, Thank you for helping to reinforce the |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Forum Members, I would like to quote words from a song. Wind me up, turn me on, and let me cry I might not cry for you, but I wish to |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() ...well, Bobbe, I'm just gonna hafta invent a harp that does use a bar...no problem if the strings are different lengths, I'll use bar slants!...we'll call it the "Bar Harp"....We'll manufacture them in Bar Harpor, Maine...the bar harp will look like a loom, just don't keep you fingers on the strings when the bar comes down...you can make an oriental rug on it while you play...see, you don't need to be an engineer, how hard can it be?...what does driving a train have to do with it, anyway?..I'm ready to build airplanes...Stonecraft - Built Solid, Flies Like A Rock.... [This message was edited by Pat Burns on 30 August 2001 at 07:44 AM.] |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Jon Light, After pondering your reel of .011 dispensable wire, my thoughts returned The Lucky 7 is offering more promise [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 30 August 2001 at 02:24 PM.] |
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
![]() ![]() Sorta like a spare tire... |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Bobby Lee, You hit the nail squarely on the head!! |
Ed Miller Jr Member Posts: 102 |
![]() ![]() Okay....Moving right a long whose going to win the series?. Here's an Idea how about changer fingers made out of the material graph tech makes there string saver saddles out of? Or; God Forbid, ten idividual Floyd Rose tremelos so you have to scrounge up a 3mm wrench in the middle of the lead players ride? I'm beginning to think we've pondered ever possible combination except making the other strings change pitch in relation to each other to give the aural illusion that the G# raised a half step...Why not every other idea has been batted around here. Maybe it's time to give creedence to the ludicrious. How about strings designed by fruit of the loom, Maybe the answer lies in their "super band waistband" material. ED |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Waist band? The only kind of band that doesn't have trouble with strings. Kermitt---(black-sheep) |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() ..no Ed, we've only scratched the surface of possibilities at 128 responses on this post.. ..the only reason that the strings have to bend 90 degrees at all on the pedal steel is so the player can sit up and play the pedals in comfort and ease...might as well put him in a Laz-E-Boy Chair while he's playing...but for that he sacrifices an occasional broken string, which apparently is worse than having the crowd toss a midget onto the bandstand and land on top of your axe...you still could build a guitar with no 90 degree angles on the strings, allowing them to pull in a straight line, simply by putting pedals on either end of the guitar at the same height above the floor as the strings, mounted vertically instead of horizontally...instead of a pac-a-seat or stool, the player would sit in a gynecologist's chair so he could get his feet up to work the pedals, which would be where the stirrups used to be...he would give up a little comfort but he would never break a string... ...why, we haven't even beaten this topic into submission, let alone beat it death... [This message was edited by Pat Burns on 30 August 2001 at 08:45 PM.] |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Pat Burns, Your contributions, combined with the
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 September 2001 at 04:54 AM.] |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ...the quantity of my observations has been more than generous, like blessing you with two fruit cakes instead of one, and the value of my contributions could be brought into question if only there was any merit to the question, but I agree they probably have not gone unnoticed, no more than would a passing wind in a house of worship... ...perhaps we should at this time put down the thorns that we have removed from our socks, and when we are moved to open our mouths and let loose our tongues in yet another tedious harangue, to place the socks there instead...I'm ready to mmmmffff, mfmmmfff mmmmmmmmffff... |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Pat Burns, For my part, no harangue is tedious [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 September 2001 at 02:36 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Huh? |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe Seymour, I was attempting to thwart criticism, Bill H. |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() ...going back to the title of the topic, perhaps this means, to those (such as myself) who can offer no positive suggestions but can only ridicule and find fault with the concepts of someone who is attempting to find new solutions, why do you delight in the attempt to dash the dream of another...have you never had a dream of your own that you wished to share with someone? |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Pat Burns, I would never "delight" in dashing or |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() ...Pleae read it again, I wasn't referring to you, Bill....I was referring to myself and others who have made light of or found fault with your project...my last comment is an admonition against that, saying that it's your dream...you take it seriously and because you do, it deserves respect...I'll make no more smart-ass comments about it... |
Bill Sharpe Member Posts: 351 |
![]() ![]() Perhaps "stop drilling" the 3rd string when it begins to fracture, or adding.....Oops, wrong thread. ![]() ------------------ |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Pat Burns, You can imagine how much better I feel Your friend, |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() Thank you for your kind comments, Bill...and good luck with the pursuit of your dream...once you stop doing that, you might as well be dead... |
Jim Bob Sedgwick Member Posts: 1234 |
![]() ![]() In all seriousness: I have the prototype "400" key on my Williams guitar. The design does change the right angle on a conventional changer, thereby does lengthen the life of the string. In 10 years, I have broken one string on this finger, and the string should have been off the guitar months before it broke. To me, it's immaterial whether Bill Rudolph designed this for "looks or service." All I know, is this changer will reduce string breakage by at least 50 percent, with no loss of tone. JMO |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() You are both totally nuts,However this is a quality I demand in a close friendship. It makes life so very intresting, as you two are so prone to prove. What great entertainment, I'm going to quit my day job just to sit here and follow these exciting exploits. Remember, if the string bends, it WILL break! Would you really call it a "DAY" job if you used an Emmons pedal setup? I had a blue right hand drive Rolls-Royce once that had the steering wheel on the right side, Was that called a "DAY" setup? Why is Lloyd left handed and uses a Emmons setup and Jimmy was right handed and used a Backward, lefthanded setup? Why does the sun shine so brightly, why does th------ Darn, now you two dummys have me doing it!!! Kissylipper----- |
Pat Burns Member Posts: 2896 |
![]() ![]() ...."don't they knoooow, it's the ennnnd of the woooorld, it ended when you said...." ....goodbye... (Let's get out there and win one for the Kipper!) [This message was edited by Pat Burns on 31 August 2001 at 08:33 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() I may not know a lot however,I did stay at a HolliDAY Inn Express last night! KrabbyKipperKiss. (I also know , the string breaks where it bends!)------Duh, |
Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
![]() ![]() Does anyone know what the prize is for the 200th post? |
Gene Jones Member Posts: 5796 |
![]() ![]() I grew up in the farm/ranch country of SW Oklahoma helping my dad keep our barbed-wire fences repaired, and I remember that if we were ever without our wirecutters and needed to make a repair, that we could bend a piece of double strand wire back and forth a few times and it would break clean as a whistle! I understand why that 3rd string has such a short life! www.genejones.com |
Paul Graupp Member Posts: 3199 |
![]() ![]() G [This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 01 September 2001 at 07:20 AM.] |
Paul Graupp Member Posts: 3199 |
![]() ![]() Gene; Been there, done that ! Thanks for remembering it. It was digging those dam+ holes for the posts that got to me !! Regards, Paul |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Gene Jones, When you wrote that your earlier labors
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 01 September 2001 at 06:39 PM.] |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Jim Bob Sedgwick, Thank you for the input, which imparts |
Rick Collins Member Posts: 3286 |
![]() ![]() To me, it seems that the repeated bending of an .011" steel string, will eventually cause fatigue and the molecules to separate at that point when stressed. I believe this to be a fact that no amount of "running bull" can obscure. I have toured Manassas, Virginia and seen the grounds of the battle of Bull Run. Respectfully, Mr. Bill Hankey, my assessment: Diagnosis: advanced Montezuma's revenge. Rx: 1 tbs. of otc Imodium-AD (effective, few contraindications), repeat in 4 hrs. if needed. Note: Drink plenty of water to replace depleated body fluids. BTW: #7 isn't always lucky. Rick |
Bill Hankey Member Posts: 1680 |
![]() ![]() Rick Collins, Please allow me to respond to the [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 03 September 2001 at 04:03 AM.] |
BJ Bailey Member Posts: 1184 |
![]() ![]() Gee, I wish I could add to this thread,I would like to see it reach that 200th post? Let see huuummm,question for Jim Bob.You say your third string had lasted almost ten year's,are did I miss understand?That would be some good mileage on a string.But when you chime'd on your string's did they have that clear lasting ping,or that sudden thump?Now Bill ,it's your dream,concerning the lucky 7 and no one can injoy,or fill the pain of it quite like you do.You might compare this to a songwritter,he pen's his thought's,give's his short story a melody,with a labor of love like a women giveing birth to a child.Thinking that a good song.Only to let someone else read it and reject it.You go with a broken spirit,and put it away in file 13 ? So it's your baby and you think she's pretty,even if the world thinks she ugly. Now getting back to the lucky 7, you see Bill, know one see's this like you do?And as for me trying to grasp the idear,I keep cutting myself on that seven,either while tuneing my peddles,or getting my beer from the barmaid.But Bill I say it's your dream ![]() ![]() ------------------ [This message was edited by BJ Bailey on 03 September 2001 at 05:58 AM.] [This message was edited by BJ Bailey on 03 September 2001 at 06:01 AM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() OK, I'm going to put this to rest for all time. We are going to do the test to end this discussion with fact. Any input will be welcomed.The test will be to hook up an automatic finger operator to a popular brand steel guitar with a counter to tell how many times the string can be raised from G# to A before it breaks.To show no impartiality, this test will be monitored by several name players ,that we all respect, here in Nashville. Today is labor day and we are closed and the fun work is starting. We'll find out when the string will break and maybe you all would be well advised to also install a counter on your guitars so you will at least know (within a few pulls) when your string will "let go". Two tests will be run, one with the string being pulled with just a very little angle off the top of the cam,(pull roller, bridge) and one standard placment pull position. The test will be repeted several times using Geo. L ,Cobra Coil,J.Pearce and S.I.T. strings.Results will be posted this coming Thursday on this forum.Anything anyone would like to see incorporated in this test? Bobbe Seymour |
Steve Feldman Member Posts: 2983 |
![]() ![]() This kind of encapsulates it for me: quote: I didn't know Norm Crosby played steel.... |
Gene Jones Member Posts: 5796 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe, while you are waiting for folks to get their ducks in a row to participate in your test, please allow me to interject a story that is not related, but possibly interesting from a historical viewpoint. Back in the 50s, Carl Perkins booked in as a single with our house band. This was after his initial success with Blue Suede Shoes when he was "down" and before he was picked back back up by someone (Cash?). He was accompanied by another guitar player (and a fifth of bourbon)and he filled the time between his two sets backstage demonstrating to the band his "invention", which was some kind of "string stretcher or bender" attached to his guitar neck above the nut that he was convinced was his path to a "million dollar patent". To shorten the story, that device broke two strings (just like the 3rd on our steels) while he was showing it to us! Does anyone know anything about that device by Perkins,and was it ever incorporated into anything mfg by anyone, or did he just forget it when he started working again? www.genejones.com |
Sage Member Posts: 525 |
![]() ![]() Hey Bobbe- If you go ahead with the test, you might want to start a new thread. This one's been a circle short of a spool for most of the time. So Bobbe, are you thinking of adding something to a conventional changer finger to reduce the breakover angle of the string, or are you going to have a straight-pull test finger that will be in contrast to the conventional changer fingers? I agree with you that most of the breaking fatigue comes from the bending and not the stretching. I take it that this is what you wish to put some factual numbers behind. More power to you, but if it's a nice day outside I think I'd rather be flying (I'm licenced for kites). ![]() |
Al Udeen Member Posts: 1164 |
![]() ![]() 011s for .25 must be Nickel! Nice markup! |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Better than quarter strings sold for a nickel? Huh?----- Where's that kid of yours Al? He hasn't bugged me for a month! I miss him. Bobbe |
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