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Topic: Innovative Fretboard
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b0b Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 12:39 PM
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quote: Now really, why might it work for some, and not for others?
Because most of us do not tune to equal temperament. In our opinions, the instrument sounds better in just intonation or meantone temperament. If you tune to equal temperament, and your guitar has no cabinet drop, then it may be appropriate to place your bar directly over the fret. Otherwise, placing the bar directly over the fret will make you sound out of tune in some positions, the A+F postion being the worst in this respect. The assumption that playing over the fret will make you play in tune is simply wrong in most cases. The one exception is a guitar that is tuned in equal temperament with zero cabinet drop, playing along to a band that is similarly tuned (e.g. a MIDI track). It's better to play by sound than by sight.------------------ Bobby Lee -b0b- quasar@b0b.com -System Administrator[This message was edited by b0b on 27 September 2002 at 12:45 PM.] |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 01:53 PM
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Bobby Lee,Your information bears a lot of merit. However, I became aware of the E to F problem more than 10 years ago, and I dealt with it by developing the "GOLO". It works by nudging the 6th string, barely discernibly, up about 3 cents worth. I agree, it is the most problematic change due to the dropping off of the 6th string, which has to be on the "money", or everthing goes haywire in the 9th tuning. Plus the fact that raising it 1/2 tone requires just a short movement at the changer finger. Bill H. |
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 02:46 PM
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B.H., I've finally figured this thing out. Since several Forumites posted merely to inflame others, and were hollered at, and then stopped, you've anointed yourself the Forum flamer! There's no"Innovative Fretboard," or "Lucky 24," or anything else. There ain't even a good idea! It's just you, a few beers, a smoke or two, and a thesaurus with a few pages torn out. This has all been a joke on your part, to entertain us during these dreary times. I thank you, and nominate Bill Hankey as "Funny Forumite of the Month." |
David Farlow Member From: San Antonio, Texas, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 03:08 PM
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I'll second the nomination, if it hasn't already been done. All in favor say AY! Time to move on.------------------
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Bobby Snell Member From: Austin, Texas
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posted 27 September 2002 03:27 PM
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I think any kind of experiment is worth evaluation. The impact this may have for the visually impaired is particularly appealing. For my own personal taste, only a standard fretboard, keyed tuners, and a double-10 can be tolerated. For the sake of scientific advancement, I applaud Mr. Hanky's past, current, and future efforts. (insert saluting smiley face here) |
Steve Stallings Member From: Bremond, Tx, pop 876, Home of the fighting Bremond Tigers
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posted 27 September 2002 03:35 PM
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What!... And I suppose you'll be telling me that the easter bunny is fake [This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 27 September 2002 at 03:36 PM.] |
Marty Pollard Member From: a confidential source
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posted 27 September 2002 03:46 PM
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quote: I'm unable to respond due to an apparent overload.
S'what I been sayin' all along... |
Kenny Foy Member From: Lynnville, KY, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 05:44 PM
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"Nothing more effective than gunsight alignment". Yes there is and it's laser sights on a gun and that is what you have here Bill. Bore your 5/8 or 1" bar and put n one of those laser pinlites down the hole and let the lite come out where the jewel is on the end and reflect on the uprite fretboard. Keep cookin Bill. |
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 27 September 2002 07:02 PM
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Mr. Snell, how can anything you have to look at, be an aid to the visually impaired? In Hankey's joke, the set-up was that this thing was supposed to correct parallax in the middle of the fretboard. But it's a JOKE, see? And, Mr. Pollard, I think, if you substitute "overdose" for "overload," you'll find the truth. |
Bobby Snell Member From: Austin, Texas
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posted 27 September 2002 09:30 PM
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Mr. Gambrell, different levels of impairment permit limited sight; that's all I meant.At one time, Herb Remington affixed a "feel" fretboard for a completely blind student. Joke? What joke?
(insert gaping, slackjawed smiley face here)
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Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 28 September 2002 03:22 AM
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Stephen G.,I just announced to the Mass. Bash associates on this forum, under the post, 20th Annual Steel Guitar Bash, that I will be bringing the fretless "Lucky 24" with me to the "Bash" tomorrow. My vision is no longer cast downward, but rather, my chin has been raised considerably; thanks to the design of the "Lucky 24". I'm curious to see if there are others who consider me a "joke". I haven't been this excited about my steel guitar since swapping leads with the guitarist in our band, back in the 80's. Bill H. |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 28 September 2002 04:02 AM
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tbhenry,Thank you for the encouragement and support you've shown. Suggesting that the "Lucky 24" may very well be accepted by others, is very helpful. I tried to answer your reply yesterday, only to be foiled by an interruptive web site. That is to say, when I try to type, I get indeterminate starts and stops of the typed letters. I'll be attending the Ma."Bash" tomorrow, and still have a few details to attend to. Bill H.[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 30 September 2002 at 10:44 AM.] |
Johan Jansen Member From: Europe
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posted 28 September 2002 07:25 AM
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quote: Johan J., Do you trust your ears exclusively while playing an uptempo melody, that requires many zigzag moves involving quick fret changes, and long span glisses?Bill H.
Yes! JJ www.steeljj.com
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Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 30 September 2002 08:32 AM
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Johan J.Of what use is the fretboard? You have concurred that your ears will guide you while delivering those "hot licks". Wouldn't it be more believable that the player is blessed with a trained brain? Otherwise he would not have the good sense to even approach a steel guitar. Bill H. |
Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 30 September 2002 08:52 PM
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quote: I think any kind of experiment is worth evaluation. The impact this may have for the visually impaired is particularly appealing.
It seems to me that it was designed for the aurally impaired. |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 01 October 2002 08:41 AM
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Bobbe Lee,I am now playing my steel without the horizontal fretboard. My focus is concentrated on the frets before me, rather than below my line of vision, and the prototype homemade fretboard rests comfortably on the front edge of my steel. That position has been adapted, and will remain as a permanent feature on my steel guitar. I agree that those experiencing impairment of the eyes or ears might welcome this approach to better enhance one's vision. Bill H. |
Frank Parish Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 01 October 2002 02:06 PM
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Bobby Lee, What do you tune your 4th and 8th strings too with the F ( E to F) knee lever engaged? I don't experience a bad sounding A-F chord on any of my guitars. I tune mine to 434.5, the B string A pedal engaged to 436.5. The rest are 440 and my guitar doesn't sound out of tune to me at all. When I used to tune everything straight up to 440 it sounded out of tune and probably was. Bill, What would you say to a guy like John Hughey that plays so high on the frets the bar would block the sight of probably 3 fret lines? He's got to be using his ears at that point wouldn't you think? |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 01 October 2002 04:22 PM
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Frank P.,It is a matter of trial and error. John's impeccable control of the bar accounts for his ability to sniff out the positions in the high registers of the steel guitar. I have a close-up of John playing Vince's "Look At Us", and I purchased the tab from him by mail order. I've scrutinized John's bar movements, and found that he uses the bar shiver in the high ranges to locate dead center pitch. John is cued into the general location, by his fretboard, an then proceeds to perfect pitch. He is among the most admired steel guitarists in my memories. I met John at Hunter Mountain in the Catskills Mountains of N.Y. while Conway Twitty was on tour there. He wouldn't remember me, but I think he would remember the band not feeling well that day. Bill H. |
Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 01 October 2002 04:49 PM
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Frank, all I'm saying is that you have to "aim high" when you use the A+F position. If you place the bar directly on the fret, you will be flat of the band.------------------ Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic |
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 01 October 2002 05:40 PM
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OK, Hankey, the gloves are off! I'm smarter than you, and I've got the better idea to prove it. You know them big ol' mirrors like they've got on cooking shows? You know, the ones over the stove, tilted at a 45 degree angle, so the audience can see what's cooking? Alright, you take one of these mirrors, see, and you hang it over your head, only pointing BACKWARDS, so you can look in the mirror and see EXACTLY where you are, without modifying your guitar! And, if some of you want to use this when you play in church, it'll look like you're seeking inspiration from above! And the best thing about it, you don't have to wait for the patent!! That's right, you can start using it now. Just chalk one up for Ol' Stevie G!! |
Frank Parish Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 01 October 2002 06:21 PM
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Steve, That's great! About 20 years ago there was a group in New Albany, Indiana with a really big mirror right over the organ player. The organist was a guy named Rick Hipple, real good performer and top notch entertainer. He played a B3 with all the drawbars lighted and he had all kinds of gimicks and gadgets to make it an interesting show and you could watch the mirror and see him from overhead. It's a great idea for a sit down gig but I'd hate to be the one to hang that thing. Bill maybe you could invent a plastic mirror that only weighed 6 pounds but was 8 feet by 6 feet! |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 02 October 2002 05:28 AM
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Stephen G.,Forget the mirrors! Put them out of your mind! Cease and desist any such notion! My fretboard has proven to be more valuable than you'll ever imagine. It's 100 % satisfactory and then some, exceeding my expectations many times over what I had originally thought. Wherever and whenever I appear in public to perform, the front mounted fretboard will be my trade- mark, as a symbolic gesture to indicate my intention to move forward, and improve the design of an underdeveloped musical instrument. I will enjoy reading those frets, while appreciating the ability to read ahead without the squirming or angling, seen in reading horizontal fretboards. The eyestrain involved in the struggle to place the bar properly over the obsolete fretboard's frets should hasten others to explore this new concept. I welcome others to join me with this new and rewarding idea. Bill H. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 02 October 2002 at 11:06 AM.] |
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 02 October 2002 11:53 AM
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Bill, you've given me an idea for a new song----"I can't move forward, 'cause I'm tryin' to keep from falling over backwards." Bill I enjoy your postings, get a kick out of your use(or misuse)of our native tongue, and your Norm Crosby-like malopropisms, whether intended or not. Keep 'em coming!! |
tbhenry Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 02 October 2002 01:35 PM
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Recently I was in a motel and guess what they had a mirror covering the entire ceiling. I was practicing on my emmons and when I looked up my entire fretboard was reflected on the ceiling. I just cranked the laziboy back had my feet on the pedals, my knees on the levers and was able to play just watching my hands on the ceiling. I played "release me" just like the devil had me in his grips. Wow whata sound. Bill head for the motel!! |
Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 02 October 2002 05:22 PM
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Is Bill Hankey the Nutty Professor of the pedal steel guitar? Definitely. Will the Lucky 24 be the next best thing since knee levers or suffer the fates of the Amphicar and the Horn Violin? www.digitalviolin.com/StrohViolin1.html Only time will tell. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 02 October 2002 at 05:24 PM.] |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 03 October 2002 05:43 AM
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Forum friends,For the opposition group who are resisting an unique solution to the blind areas on the steel guitar fretboards, I can only remind you that I just came away from my steel. It was there that I ran through John Hughey's "Look At Us". No problem whatsoever. How is that? The new fretboard reveals all of those nooks and crannies John likes to frequent. Bill H |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 04 October 2002 06:57 AM
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F. M.,I called Frank Caruso last evening, to ask if he would make a little room for me on his upcoming Waltham, Ma. Steel Show. I requested enough time to play two songs, and feature my "Lucky 24" fretboard. It rests in an aluminum track, 1/4" wide X 5/16" high X 15" long. The track is permanently mounted on the steel, with a 12th fret centering position. The "Lucky 24" is tilted on the approximate angle used in bookreading; away from the player. The "Lucky 24" is one and 1/2" wide, X 19" long, and simply lifted from the track when packing up. There would be a thousand options that could be used, in furthering the enhancement of the "Lucky 24". I have a few in mind for the near future. Bill H. |
Fred Shannon Member From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas
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posted 04 October 2002 08:39 AM
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"Peers as if Mr Hankey is serious. Guess he's committed. Maybe we're all too adverse to change. That comes from a guy who first saw what looked like two wires from a clothes hangar, adjusted by a turnbuckle from a screen door, pulling strings on a steel guitar--to which I promptly asserted, "Heck, that'll never work." And if Henry Ford had listened to folks, I wouldn't be driving to gigs in this Windstar van, nor would I be able to fly to those places over 200 miles in this 'stupid looking V tailed Bonanza airplane. I also remember seeing a guy shaking his butt off in a highschool auditorium in Roswell NM in 1956 and I made the statement, "He'll never make it in the big time." His name Elvis. Finally, I also passed up an opportunity to by 100 shares of stock at $10 a share in a little electronics company in North Dallas. It's named 'Texas Instruments." So with that I'll not say anything about Bill's ideas except that any movement to better the steel guitar world is welcome at this house.------------------ The spirit be with you!!
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Fred Shannon Member From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas
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posted 04 October 2002 09:45 AM
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BTW, just in passing --(I sure don't want to start any bonfires)-- at all the bashes I've attended and in nearly all the pictures I've seen, when the "big 'uns" are really into it and moving the bar, why are they always looking down at something. Maybe they're checking to see if their fly is unzipped or somethin'----------. Just a thought.------------------ The spirit be with you!!
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Ricky0ne1 Member From: West Peoria, IL, USA
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posted 04 October 2002 11:43 AM
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Muscle memory should get your bar in the neighborhood.. your ears will fine-tune the note.. but every once in a while you may need to recalibrate.. eyes seem the be the natural sense with which to do this calibration.. the more one practices, the less need for calibration.. I'd try anything once if I thought it would get me to that "perfect method".. ANY idea or 'gimmick' that actually aids one in his quest for that method is priceless.. Zen-Steelist.. yee-haw.. Rick |
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 05 October 2002 01:59 PM
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Well, Fred, you're right! If it makes the steel world a better place, I'm all for it. I wish Ol' Bill would take up songwriting, though----come up with stuff make "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" look like the Minute Waltz. |
Fred Shannon Member From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas
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posted 05 October 2002 03:10 PM
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Well, Steve, in any case it didn't cost us anything, made some of us think and made for a lot of good reading. Who knows we may see a new steel come out of Puerto Rico with a slanted fretboard and a laser light put in the bar for easy reading. Peace Brother.------------------ The spirit be with you!!
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Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 06 October 2002 02:33 PM
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There ya go, Fred! Peace |
RON PRESTON Member From: Dodson, Louisiana, USA
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posted 06 October 2002 06:01 PM
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Frank, You ever seen Rick Hipple play "Saints go marching in" with his NOSE? He used an EchoPlex on that # too. I remember Rick too, and It was Just him and his Drummer. Gosh, was that Dude a Riot!!! I sat in with Rick one weekend playing my Gretch "Country Gentelman" that I borrowed from a friend in Louisville, Ky. Dag, What a SMALL WORLD. I had FORGOTTEN all about Ol Rick Hipple. Super Cool Guy, he was. Thanks for the Mind-Jog. |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 07 October 2002 10:58 PM
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F. M.,If all goes well, pictures will be presented on the Forum soon. They will clearly show the prototype "Innovative Fretboard", and the "Lucky 7". Bill H.
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Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 10 October 2002 04:33 PM
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Steve F.,I must change the name of my Fretboard for reasons of identity. It will be known as, "Hankey's Upright Fretboard". Thank you Steve, for suggesting the other name. Bill H. |
Bill Hankey Member From: Pittsfield, MA, USA
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posted 12 October 2002 07:07 PM
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F.M.,I am submitting a photo of the "Hankey Upright Fretboard". I'll be showing it in Waltham, MA. at Frank Caruso's Steel Show, tomorrow afternoon. [This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 12 October 2002 at 07:12 PM.] |
Johan Jansen Member From: Europe
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posted 13 October 2002 06:12 AM
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Now I understand what you mean, Bill! Thanks for posting. I hope this invention add some new thinking in the steelers world The idea is good, I cannot imagine yet what my experiences with playing would be, it's another approach. I see you also installed the lucky 7. According to the shine of your plain strings, it does its work very good, you mustn't have broken one in 10 years No kidding, all the best with your invention. Johan |
b0b Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 13 October 2002 08:55 AM
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Since Bill has opened a new thread on this topic, I'm closing this long one. |