First, the issue of dynamics. Several have stated the importance. I never REALLY understood dynamics until I played with an orchestra. It was terrifying. You guys should all try playing with 60-80 people onstage, not just 5 or 10! The epitome was when I saw John Williams play with a full 70 piece orchestra. Acoustic nylon string guitar with NO sound reinforcement and I heard him just fine 3/4 of the way to the back of the venue. Now that's dynamics!

Back to the original question. Why do drummers play loud? Personally, I think part of it has to do with tone. For the first part of my career I was a loud & proud rocker. Frankly, I love a drummer that sounds like he's playing cannons. Just like a speaker, a drum head responds differently at different levels. Again, IMO, a drum played with authority sounds better. It also sounds loud. The simple answer is a plexi cage so the soundman actually does have some CONTROL over the mix. Why do you think they use drum rooms in the studio? I gotta side with the drummers here. With every instrument the players range for the good to the bad and ugly. I've worked with bass players, drummers, and guitar players that could blow the buttons off your shirt with their stage volume. Heck, I've done it myself. It took experience and some maturity to finally understand the dynamics of a mix both out front and on the stage.

Regarding soundmen...if you don't trust your soundman implicitly then it's time to get a new soundman. If anyone can't take what he says as a constructive critique, they have an ego problem. If you can't work as a team then it's not a band, It's just a bunch of opinionated egos on a stage. The soundman is the MOST important person there. It doesn't even matter what it sounds like on the stage, or even what you play, if it sounds like a cat fight out front. Trust your soundman and LISTEN to him. I think every musician - even steel players - should sit behind a console and mix as often as they can. That's how you come to understand a mix image.

Someone mentioned Sonny Rawlins earlier. I saw Sonny at Chicagofest about 15 years ago. Even back then he had a plexi shield around his miced up drummer. I was backstage and behind the shield it sounded the the sinking of the Bismark. Out front it was balanced, clear and the drums had killer tone. As players we all take advantage of technology with amps, effects, mics, etc.. Allow the drummers the same priviledge.

Just my $.02

Don

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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it! ~ Yogi Berra

My last year in NYC I played contrabass on and recorded Caramina Burana with Vance George of the San Fransico Choral Society, and Symphony as guest conductor.
He had won the grammy that year for it. with SFS & CS.

We had 72 players AND 450 voices.....
Now that's dynamics like Don was saying.
I got it all into 2 PZM microphones.

Just under 2000 in the audience.

There is a drum anecdote with it also.
it was in the 2nd largst catherderal in NYC, with a SEVEN second reverb time...
and a bad beat frequency conflict after 5 seconds.

We did 2 of 23 momvements in the church for a warm up,
and it was quickly decided all the 2 measure rests between sections HAD to become conductors mark rests. He'll then give us a measure to reset time.

No choice in the matter we had to let the room decay before each section!!

Well in the 1st section there is this wonderful cressendo, with BIG tympany,
but the drummer missed his cut off from the conductor....OOPS.

He just keep building.... until his mallet snapped....
It flew 40 feet in the air and came down inside the grand piano. CRANGE!!!!!

Sort pause to empty the piano, and then 22 more sections.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 August 2004 at 03:57 PM.]

That drum story is funny stuff. I've never recorded in a large church but I have played in one. I know what you mean about the decay on the room. We did a Bach piece with some blistering baroque string lines and in the room it just all ran together. Sounded terrible - ha ha

Don

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"When you come to a fork in the road, take it! ~ Yogi Berra

I was setting up well before the show, and a lone trumpeter was in the room playing REALLY long notes and messing with the acoustics.
That beat frequency afer 5 seconds coming form the unequal naves was horrendous...

I already imagined Mr. George's reaction. Or is that consternation.

We had one orchestra rehersal, with our regular conductor, no voices.
One in the church basement that held 520 players / singers.
And then one hour before the show...
we ALL heard this room, and went HUH. HUUUUUH!!
Oops.

Only St John the Divine is bigger in NYC... and sounds better.
But we couldn't get it.

I could see this drummer was bright red from the bass section 35 feet away. LOL. Poor SOB.
But the piano player was a bit shook too, chicken little syndrome.

A good drummer is a joy forever.. or at least until the carpel tunnels get closed.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 August 2004 at 03:21 PM.]

Is there a anti-drum bias here?
www.genejones.com

Amen to that.. The drummer in my current band is a total rocker.. He didn't even know who George Jones was, till I educated him :-)
He's extremely heavy-handed!

I was at the GrandOle Opry 2 fridays ago, and there were at least 8 mics on the drums there.

The kit was also in a baffled clear plexiglass walle in area, or gobos if it were a studio situation.
It sounded perfect and all on stage also sounded fine.

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!
;)