At least it killed the smarmey strings of musak..
gag me with a butter pat... PLEASE.

I am sure Kenny G can play the heads and solo on many bop standards.
And can read the changes for jazz classics.
But his recorded work does in no way challenge listeners.
As intended.

The best in modern electric jazz,
will be both accesable AND inteligent.
Likely aligenating both the 'not up to bop' smooth jazz crowd,
and the hardcore uncompromising advanced players.

Just what do you know about me and what I can or can't play, Jesse? Absolutely nothing, yet you tell me what I can't do? How ignorant can one get.

If I said I could, would you believe it?

I didn't "sum up Kenny G with one little trick gimmick he used at one time in his career", I paraphrased what Pat Metheny wrote about him, and he said MUCH more than that. Obviously you either didn't read it, or are in denial since he dissed your HERO.

You attack me personally - a REALLY LOW thing to do in any discussion - for paraphrasing Pat Metheny? Why attack me anyway...I suggest you go right to the source, write Pat and clue him in, he doesn't seem to know anything about jazz or music in general, and I'm sure you could really help him, eh?

He also said that even when Mr. G. is playing his fast pentatonics, he still manages to hit several clams. He also plays everything annoying sharp. I can hear both the clams and the playing sharp. Guess you can't.

Sorry you can't play that "well".

Well, if YOU can't play as well as Kenny G, I guess it's certain that no one here could, right?

I have a lot of respect for Metheny's music and musical knowledge. Not so much for you or yours.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 16 October 2006 at 10:59 PM.]

Oh yea, Jim, you wrote it like it was coming from you, not Pat. But what ever, it's still coming from you. Kenny G isn't my freakin hero, he's just a player who can play way beyond me. And lets get something clear, you attacked me first with your post and then rewrote the disrespectful phrase you used after the fact.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 17 October 2006 at 09:16 AM.]

quote:

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Metheny doesn't get much air play, but he stills gets air play if any on smooth jazz stations?

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What the he<< is that supposed to mean? Are you trying in your "unique" way to say that Methany doesn't get much airplay, therefore he can't be all that good? Kenny G gets lots of airplay, so that means he's great, and therefore much superior than Methany?

If we're going to judge talent by the amount of airplay they get, then Tim McGraw is better than Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, Chet Atkins; and Kenny G is better than John Coltrane, Joe Pass, Howard Roberts, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, and many other jazz legends. Think so?

quote:

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Pat, I haven't bought anything from him in years cause his stuff all sounds the same to me anymore.

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Then better keep buying Kenny G, everything he does is fresh, new, different and exciting!

quote:

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Clams, if you don't hit a couple of clams once in awhile, you must not be taking any chances?

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I would agree with that in most cases, but since when are fast pentatonics "taking a chance"?

quote:

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I've heard Kenny G play live over the years and it's amazing he doesn't hit a bunch of clams when he is working it the way he does.

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How nice.

quote:

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Oh yea, Jim, you wrote it like it was coming from you, not Pat. But what ever, it's still coming from you.

---

Huh? I wrote what I believe which just happened to be conveniently backed up by Metheny's article. It was from ME. When you jumped my a$$ about it, I pointed out Metheny thinks the same, so that since you have no respect for my musicianship (which you know NOTHING about and yet have the BALLS to judge me incapable of playing Kenny G), maybe you might explain how Pat Metheny, who most musicians agree DOES have some musical talent, has written the same as I posted, and much more...?

quote:

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Kenny G isn't my freakin hero, he just a player who can play way beyond me.

---

Well then keep practicing.

Jesse I've seen some pretty odd postings from you before but in this thread you have really outdone yourself.

This reminds me of the "Jerry Garcia is the greatest steel player in the world" guys.

This is where I'm done with this thread.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 16 October 2006 at 11:47 PM.]

quote:

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Hey Jim, shut up o.k.

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Wow, before I could even leave the page.

Yessir, whatever you say, Jesse.

I've already wasted too much time on your ridiculous arguements anyway.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 16 October 2006 at 11:43 PM.]

quote:

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Why attack me anyway...I suggest you go right to the source, write Pat and clue him in...

---

Regardless of how much airplay either KG or PM get,
Pat Metheney does get much more respect within the genre.

I won't begrudge Kenny making a
good living playing music he likes.

But I have to agree with Pat,
doing a studio duet with Satchmo
was a poor idea.
Nothing like Natalie Cole and her dad together.

Regardless of how proficient I am at my instrument, I don't believe I could ever muster the audacity to "recreate" a duet with such a giant.

But I wish I could play golf as well as Kenny G. That guy is really good!

------------------
Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 17 October 2006 at 11:43 AM.]

Pat want's everyone on the planet to never listen, buy or go to any concerts anywhere that involve Kenny G. Pat has clearly become a music Nazi. Pat is lying about certain facts and clearly having personal problems that he is projecting on to Kenny out of jealousy. The biggest joke is that the only thing we hear from him is stuff that fits the smooth jazz format, how ironic for him. Larry C is now the enemy too, if your really hip you'll hate him too!

I wonder why Pat never considered the power of the record companies to try and get artists to try new things to maybe increase the poor record sells of old school stuff? I didn't like the sound of Kenny's trad jazz themed stuff and wouldn't buy it. But Pat's comments are true tunnel vision and untrue on certain parts, screw him. I don't know one artist that doesn't have stuff that sounds kinda boring along with something that sounds great.

I went through my Pat M phase back in the 80' with the stereo chorus pedal and learning some of his three piece stuff. I don't do any of his stuff anymore but I still play Kenny G's "midnight motion" because I dig it and so do people listening.

Coltrane almost single handedly destroyed jazz with his Atonal garbage stuff, but it was his journey he was going through. But hey, Carlos Santana digs it right? Oh well, Bird used to rip off his buddies all the time to get high, we can't all be angles all the time. Pat is the new Talliban of jazz, puke on him.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 18 October 2006 at 09:22 AM.]

quote:

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Atonal garbage stuff

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I just don't get it. So he and Diz and Monk stretched out a bit,
and that ruined jazz.
I just don't see it, or hear it.

Soooo....

Coltrane ruined jazz because some no talent individual claims he is playing like Trane....

Jesse, have you actually listened to the Trane discography. Not just the last couple of albums but the entire output; the work with Miles, the work with Monk, the Prestige recordings with the original quartet. Have you heard Ballads (hey, there is an example of "smooth" jazz the way it ought to be played).

Who's that pointed at? John?

Here is a "homework assignment" for anyone following this thread that is not familiar with Coltrane's "A Love Supreme."

It is from an NPR radio broadcast a few years back,after Ashley Kahn came out with his book about the album, which was only performed outside the studio once, in France.

The author concluded the segment saying it is "like a cherished holy object."
http://tinyurl.com/vsqet

------------------
Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 18 October 2006 at 01:31 PM.]

I say smooth jazz is like a fine box of wine!

I would request that you two guys start another thread that has to do with what your really talking about and stop trying to abuse the forum to get things locked out when it doesn't reflect your vision of yourself.

Forum feedback is a good place for that sort of thing isn't it? Bill, you haven't shed any light on smooth jazz verse's trad jazz in any adult manner, how come? Maybe that would be a good thread for forum feedback. Build it and they will come?

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 18 October 2006 at 11:10 PM.]

Please, you can call me all the names you want. I think we know where we all stand. But leave John out of it. We know John's work. We've watched him foster the first jazz mandolin students at Berklee. We've heard him play. He has a body of work, a legacy, and credentials most of the people on this forum respect and only wish they had.

So far, on your side all I've heard is a lot of talk. I'd love to hear you play Charlie Parker, or Giant Steps, or Bach on the guitar. Point me in the direction. You must have something recorded you can share.

As for me, I'm lucky if I can get down to the bar once a week for a jam session.

And may I say, you might want to get develop a sense of humor.

[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 18 October 2006 at 08:41 PM.]

And then had the pleasure of jamming jazz, etc, with him a day or so later at a party
my sister was having for extended family.
He immpressed everyone as a gentle man
and fine musician.
I REALLY don't get this attack on him...

The man is MUCH more than just an excellent transcriber.
He can back it up with chops, knowlege and taste.

Back on topic.
Smooth Jazz can serve a useful purpose,
as made clear by the debut post of this thread.

It is a channel for those less versed in
jazz and extended harmonizations
and different rhythmic feels to be
brought closer to what some call real jazz.

It is allowing to Larry to expand his pallet of musical knowlege.

In this context it is a viable entity.
And if it brings musical enjoyment to someone,
then fine by me.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 October 2006 at 10:33 PM.]