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 The OTHER Robert Randolph question (Page 2)
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| Author | Topic: The OTHER Robert Randolph question |
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Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 20 February 2004 01:50 AM
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Do what I do when somebody hires me because I play the same instrument as Ray, Doug, Larry or Felix. Fake it, and hope they get drunk enough not to know the difference... That's what My Muse is for.. EJL |
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Steinar Gregertsen Member From: Arendal, Norway |
posted 20 February 2004 02:09 AM
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I have played guitar since '72, I may not have reinvented the instrument but I do play it well enough to make a living from it. Over the last 4 years I've developed a deep love for the lap steel guitar, and my question is this,- IF I somewhere down the road should decide to get myself a pedal steel, will I have to sign a contract stating "I promise to engage these pedals X times during X bars of every song I play, and only use minor pentatonic scales when absolutely neccessary" in order to leave the shop with my new PSG? ------------------ |
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Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 20 February 2004 03:09 AM
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well...I see it a bit differently... I have no problem with anyone wanting to play like someone else..we all do it..we all try to emulate Buddy, Loyd , Paul etc..not a bad thing... it's how we actually learn how to play the dang thing.. I have a slight difference in agreement on the play like RR issue.. Don't get me wrong , I think RR is a fine player and his presence is awesome. But I'm not gonna learn how to play like him.. Do I play Blues..? yeh..on the 6 string..and I also move some of those phrases over to the Steel..on both necks..is it necessary..no, not for me.. I'm not really interested in playing that particular style on the Steel..'cause I do it on the Tele' and don't want to stop doing it on the Tele.. When I gig out, I front most of the Blues type tunes on Guitar and vocals..thats as much fun as playin" Steel along with another Tele' picker... I've studied playing out of diminshed scales (aka: Robben Ford) and various other modes which are not Pentatonic..and comping chords under the vocal lines or behind another Instrument is about as exciting as anything else. If another player feels it is important to play like RR then thats fine..but I somehow don't think it's all that important for everyone to play like RR..I'm still tryin' to figure out how to play like Buddy, Paul , Loyd etc...cause'..thats what "I" wanna do.. I guess the point is..study some different modes, play out of a few different scales ..then see what happens...maye you will be the next RR, or Buddy, or Paul or Loyd... If I'm gonna 'venture off it's gonna be playing out of 3 or 4 scale positions on the C6th neck..once I get that down maybe I'll change my mind about playing like RR.. call me in 20 or 30 years.. t |
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Jeff Lampert Member From: queens, new york city |
posted 20 February 2004 08:08 AM
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I STRONGLY URGE ALL players who are into blistering slow blues playing to listen to Stevie Ray Vaughn play "Texas Flood", (a slow blues tune very similar to the clip Dan posted). On slow blues, it's all about the intensity and emotion, and SRV's playing will literally make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Now, if you can play blues like that, you will be a king. ------------------ [This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 20 February 2004 at 08:11 AM.] |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 20 February 2004 08:42 AM
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Amen, Stevie is the king of blues phrasing and he's got that "MO Tone" thing down better than anybody ever did. And by the way, Jimmie Vaughn isn't flashy on Hawaiian steel, but he can groove it with the best of em. One way for you steel players who want to get the blues style down on your instrument, is to transpose blues guitar tab books onto your steel. It's an easy way to learn and along with the recorded music, your ear shows you how ta phrase it right. |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 20 February 2004 08:43 AM
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You mean....like this?  http://www.cinternet.net/~rewinder/ |
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Dave Frye Member From: Jamestown, CA 95327 |
posted 20 February 2004 08:55 AM
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Hey Guys, I used to play sort of like RR, back in the early 60,s but i was kinda,o,crazy at that time and could,nt get much work! So i started to play :straight Country: stuff to get work.Cheers to RR for thinkin different! Sic,em RR! Ole Dave Frye |
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Dan Tyack Member From: Seattle, WA USA |
posted 20 February 2004 09:49 AM
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quote:I guess that says it all.... |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 20 February 2004 11:46 AM
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Dan, I have a 2 year degree in music from a nobody community college. My G.I. bill paid for it. I have known guys with degrees who know the theory but still don't play that great, I'm not one of em. I play all styles of music and have been working it in one way or the other since grade school. But blues guitar is what I do most natural and love the most. I still study hard every day and always will. I've said before Robert is pretty young and is only gonna get more clever with age, like all of us do when we work on it. Why don't you post some tab on Robert's style, and let us better see what you are really talking about.  [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 20 February 2004 at 11:53 AM.] |
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David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 20 February 2004 11:58 AM
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Jesse, yes RR plays the fast stuff like a lap steel, hardly ever using a pedal, and only occassionally using a knee. That's about the only thing you've said that I agree with. I have also seen him use pedals extensively with great dexterity, typically on slower gospel songs. But the Sacred Steeler tuning is not set up to use the pedals all the time like on E9. It's more like C6 - you got pedals for special licks, but can play a lot of stuff without them. Dan, I'm with you. Having grown up in North Mississippi, I love to play the blues. I played bottle-neck before Dobro and pedal steel. When I learned pedal steel in the '70s, I played some slide blues stuff on it, but it seemed kind of out of place, and there wasn't much call for it. Plus, it's hard on E9 with all those extra strings you have to keep from hitting. So I didn't really develop it. I took up pedal steel again a couple years ago, about the time the Sacred Steeler thing got publicized. This really opened my ears to what you can do with a pedal steel and blues. It is now my chosen instrument for blues. Last night I played 3 hours of Chicago electric blues covers, trading licks with an old school sax player and two teles. Even at my hack level, the crowd loved it. I'm sure you have been practicing this stuff a lot since that night at the Sedgewick, but I bet Marcus Randolph has too. Mike, I'm with you on the uni being good for blues, although an extended E9 is also good. In the uni B6 mode, if you put your B pedal down it becomes B7, very similar to the Sacred Steeler E7. In that mode, in addition to the pentatonic stuff, you get all those Stormy Monday chords. What an instrument! [This message was edited by David Doggett on 20 February 2004 at 12:19 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 20 February 2004 12:18 PM
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I played in a blues trio (piano, bass and steel) every Saturday night for 4 years. I feel that pedal steel is the ultimate blues guitar. The patrons of that little bar felt the same way, once they heard it. ------------------ |
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Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 20 February 2004 12:26 PM
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The OTHER Eric West Answer..
quote: I'm going to find the nearest dumpster, throw my ProIII, with my EB pedal, Pod XT, All my picks, bars, and chords in it. I'll walk away without looking back. No tears. No regrets. I'll be whistling a song off the Bobbe Seymore DF CD. Then I'm going to go home, kiss my ole Panhead™ goodbye, put my head in my Shop Vice, and crank the handle until my head is completely squished and my brains are running down my slacks onto my spit shined Justins. It'll be the most Determined Case of Suicide on Record. Hopefully it won't ever come to that.. Hey, you aksed.. EJL [This message was edited by Eric West on 20 February 2004 at 12:32 PM.] |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 20 February 2004 12:49 PM
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Bobby, I'd love to hear one of those blues songs you were doing. The only stuff I've heard of Robert is what is free on the net and that appears to be the jam band stuff. On those recordings I don't hear him playing chords or comping much, just fast lead lines real loud? I would be happy to tab out one of his songs if y'all send me one, doesn't matter how difficult it is because I can slow it down with my sampler. I'll have to stick it on a C6/A7 6 stringer, but I'll do an analysis of it o.k? Dan or Bobby, please send me something and I'll start working on it, that will keep me quiet for awhile. You know, I heard some pedal steel player do a solo Xmas song once by himself, he sounded like a whole orchestra. |
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Craig Stock Member From: Westfield, NJ USA |
posted 20 February 2004 04:37 PM
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I just read that the Campbell Bros are opening for Robben Ford(Correct Spelling) in NYC at B.B. Kings in early March. Pretty Cool. -craig P.S. RR was mentioned again last week in Entertainment Weekly Mag!!! |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 20 February 2004 05:12 PM
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Jesse, we never recorded that band. It was a very loose bar atmosphere. I really enjoyed it, but now I all have of it are memories. I don't think I've ever played music that was more emotional than what I played with that little blues combo. ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA |
posted 20 February 2004 05:14 PM
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quote:I can't play any music through a fuzz box. They just sound awful to me. |
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Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 21 February 2004 03:47 AM
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Yes..I see Robben Ford is once again mentioned.. If Robben is in your town or within a hunr'ed no disrespect to any of the famous blues playin' Stratocaster heroes....but they ain't even close to Robben...they did not come from the same school.. You wanna hear someone play out of scales and modes that are unchartered territory for the common folks ?..then don't miss RF. Telecaster..Dumbles..tone to die for and playing that may change your entire outlook on approach. Yes..he plays pentatonic..but he don't live there...and he does not park there for long.. I guess you can tell I like RF.. t |
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Craig Stock Member From: Westfield, NJ USA |
posted 21 February 2004 06:17 AM
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Tony I agree, I saw Robben and the Blue Line back during the 'Talk to your daughter' album period at the Bottom Line and he was smokin'. Larry Carlton on his first solo album listed him as one of the 3 influences on him. A few years later I saw him play with Miles Davis and didn't even know it was him until Miles finally faced the audience and introduced the band. Robben looked totally different. I think this was after the time he was out of playing due to some carpal tunnel syndrome he had in his hand. His new CD is good, covers but well done. -craig [This message was edited by Craig Stock on 21 February 2004 at 06:18 AM.] |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 21 February 2004 07:39 AM
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When I heard Robben play that Mose Allison song "ain't got nothing but the blues" is when I realized that there was a whole other sophisto side to blues. Robben has some good books out in tab that break down his approaches and chord comping plus show you how to play his best songs. I never could figure out how he was voicing until these early studies came out. I haven't heard him in awhile because he started sounding like he was trying to hold back on the jazz approaches and get more gut bucket friendly. Maybe it was his hand problem I didn't know about that was slowing him down for awhile, it's cool he's being sophisto again. Robben plays alto sax and it was this fact that got me into studying alto to learn jazz approaches. [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 21 February 2004 at 07:44 AM.] |
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David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 21 February 2004 07:49 AM
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So what's a good Robben Ford CD to look for? I'm not much into tab. I gotta hear it. |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 21 February 2004 07:57 AM
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"Talk to you daughter" has it all when it comes to sophisto meets gut bucket, plus you can get a tab/music notation book for around $24.00 that comes with a CD. The Mose Allison song is on "Talk to your daughter" and in the book, it's one of the coolest jazz blues slow songs I ever heard and the dancers really dig it. [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 21 February 2004 at 07:59 AM.] |
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Bob Smith Member From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA |
posted 21 February 2004 08:12 AM
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Tony, good explanation of Robben Fords playing. I saw him play in the 70s and it was one of those " never forget it" nights. He sounded like nothing I had ever heard before. Bob |
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CrowBear Schmitt Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France |
posted 21 February 2004 08:37 AM
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Mose Allison ? Now there's a hip kat !  |
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Craig Stock Member From: Westfield, NJ USA |
posted 21 February 2004 08:39 AM
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Definately 'Talk to your Daughter' 'Ain't got nothin' but the Blues' is worth the price of the CD alone-craig |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 21 February 2004 08:56 AM
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Duke Ellington wrote the song, but Robben used the Allison arrangment for his version of it. I would think that pedal steel could play the same chord voicings. |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 21 February 2004 03:52 PM
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Well I just listened to DAN T' sacred steel site's audio samples, here's what I noted. Good back up band, but I couldn't tell where the steel was untill Dan took a solo on Mercy Mercy( if thats what you want to call it). Boy, if that's your concept of the ultimate blues and rock machine soloing than I think you might want to check out that community collage I went to. That first song was cool as far as a happy sound, I didn't know that's what Sacred steel was all about. Sounds kinda like Little Feat. I could see how this would be a fun and entertaining gig. Bottom line is no blues band is gonna hire you over a guitar player playing like that. And yea, I heard you lifting and dropping the bar, alittle too much I think. So, I guess I gotta post some steel playing of my own to be fair. I'm not into recording but I have an old 4 track and a drum machine that I can use. I think I'll record "Down by the Riverside" on C6/A7 the way I learned it in New Orleans (pure blues funk). And just to make a point, I'll stick to the Major and Minor pentatonic scales. Now Dan, I know this might be kinda dick head for ya ta hear, but consider it a cutting contest from a lowly street artist just getting even with your mouth, just like they would do with each other in the Bebop days.  |
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Steinar Gregertsen Member From: Arendal, Norway |
posted 21 February 2004 06:36 PM
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Jesse,- if you're truly curious about the Sacred Steel tradition, let me recommend the "Sacred Steel" DVD from Arhoolie Records. Some truly great playing by the Campbell Brothers (and much better sound quality than the cuts on their website) and others, and there's even a cut with Robert Randolph, playing in church with a (relatively) clean sound. Plus, there's some great interviews in there, in one of them Chuck Campbell explains how he got hooked on the PSG on a steel guitar convention in Nashville (I don't remember which player he refers to, but I think it was Jimmy Day). So it tells a lot about where these players and this tradition is coming from, I can't recommend this DVD/video enough. Steinar PS - Anyone who can listen to the DVD's cut of Darrick Campbell playing "The End Of My Journey" without getting a lump in the throat, is either a drummer or a banjo player.... ------------------ [This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 21 February 2004 at 06:38 PM.] [This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 21 February 2004 at 07:00 PM.] |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 21 February 2004 09:12 PM
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Steinar, thanks. I'm gonna get the DVD, I see this is something I need to get fully educated on. I picked "Down by the Riverside" because of it's long gospel tradition and I think it's kinda hard to solo over, in that you can't just use your standard blues licks to groove it( well, kinda you can). Sometimes I just need someone to light a fire under me to get going. This song might not be the same thing as the jam band thing, but it's gospel that you can get funky on the rhythm with and a good place to start. [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 22 February 2004 at 08:12 AM.] |
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Les Pierce Member From: Goliad, Texas |
posted 21 February 2004 10:05 PM
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I guess it's just the Steel players turn. I heard all this in the 60's and '70's from the local country guitar players when country rock started to come out . Now that country rock style of guitar playing is the standard, and old style in nearly forgotten. I'm sure there were plenty of steel players upset when pedals first came out, ("that's not a real steel"). Maybe this rowdy, driving steel, is the sound of the future, or maybe not. If so, some will go along and get good at it, and some will be left behind, just like it has been for every musical instrument there ever was. Stay with what you love, and you won't care. Take care, Les |
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Rick Schmidt Member From: Carlsbad, CA. USA |
posted 22 February 2004 01:42 PM
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Jesse...I'm not really an expert on SS or RR or the like either, but I DO know that when two of the santified Sacred Steelers get together to play it's definitely NOT a cutting contest. It's all about edifying their brothers and sisters...not small pond domination. Although if you want a local cutting contest...lets go. 4,6,8,10,D12, or 88? |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 22 February 2004 02:39 PM
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I don't know exactly what that means, but the cutting contest sounds good to me. Are you talking about filling people with the Holy Spirit with music? If you live around San Diego, then lets put something together with a church or something. I don't have relegion and don't know too much about that stuff, but the vibe sounds good if that's what you mean. E-mail me if your serious about starting something down here. |
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Eric West Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA |
posted 22 February 2004 03:38 PM
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I might remind those un-initiated that the bloodiest and most gruesome wars were between religious participants. Definitely in My Christian Heritage. I'd LOVE to see a muslim "head cutting contest". ---Ali blasts out Sixteen bars of Four Wheel Drive at BLISTERING Speed with ALL the latest substitutions.-- Mahmed gets through about 8 and just melts away. Ali thunders out "ALLAH AKBAHR!" The crowd resounds "THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD"! No doubt about it. Nothing like a good old Edification. EJL |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 22 February 2004 03:52 PM
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Rick, I just looked on the map to see where you lived and your over an hour away? Guess your jiving me like Dan T? If your playing steel like RR and I'm playing guitar, I'm gonna give you a run for your money. It comes down to put up or shut up doesn't it? I don't need you telling me about what other men may or may not be areal about when it comes to their motivations about religion and their fellow man, that's not rocket science. There are poser priest's as much as there are poser SS musicians I suspect, but that's their business not mine. At least Dan T had the balls to post audio samples of himself, but he jived me so it's time for me to figure out how to post my own stuff instead of talking. It would be fun to post a funky play-along track that would allow us all to try and out do each other by taping our own solos over the top of it and then posting it. It would be a great way to learn and get better and put an end to all the negative talking we end up doing with each other. If there was a Sacred Steel thing going on here, I would love to join in the fun, but there isn't even many steel players of any kind around here I'm disappointed to say. Cyber cutting contests, now there's a concept. |
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Rick Schmidt Member From: Carlsbad, CA. USA |
posted 22 February 2004 05:04 PM
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Ok Ok Jesse...I give. You win. I was just jiving. I'll just go back to playing "All my Ex's" and shut up. I was just trying to stick up for another picker thas all. I've never posted any of my "guitar-ie" type blues steeling, but here's something I did post...kinda off topic: Rick
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 22 February 2004 06:16 PM
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Rick, that sounds great. I never heard a steel do that song before. Was that some Allan Holdsworth voicings in there, nice touch. Your vocals reminded me of early I.O.U., Allan lives out here in San Marcus as does Joe Walsh. You know, I would just like to clarify what I see a cutting contest to be. I see em as a great motivator to get players to study a little harder and get better, everybody learns from each other and has something to look forward to, where normally we might not push ourselves as hard. I don't know about you, but I sweat a little more around other musicians who can play well than around the general public. It's all good, Lester, Charles Mingus etc. all went to a million of em. Bird even got burned by JoJo gun with the cymbal gong, he didn't play for 3 months after that and then said "I'll show those guys" and look what happened. When you know this kind of history, it's easy to see that Robert will probable grow as a player. I know the guy is good, but you just cut him I think, but different tastes maybe. There is probable some SS jam tunes that are standards for those guys to work out on, what are they? If somebody in the know like Dan T posted a play along along those lines, we could do the cyber jam thing and learn alot along the way. Kinda the future of "cutting contests" that would include the whole world being able to participate. Now that would be cool. |
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Bob Hoffnar Member From: Brooklyn, NY |
posted 22 February 2004 10:21 PM
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Jesse, Its weird with you being such a great musician and all but I can't seem to find any references to your work on allmusic.com or even google. Let me know where we can check out your playing. I pass through San Diego on tour sometimes also so it would be great to catch one of your shows if I get the chance. You won't talk me into a cutting contest though ! I find them stressfull. Bob |
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Franklin Member From: |
posted 23 February 2004 06:54 AM
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Guys, I do agree with some of the musical points Jesse made and have not been able to find any Sacred steel playing beyond the scope of the scales or styles he mentioned. If its out there I would love to hear it? Although I do enjoy hearing them play, I wonder if anyone from that camp is pushing the musical direction like Buddy did by playing other styles of music. I am not interested in whether or not they play traditional steel. I am curious about anyone of them playing Jazz. The blues is a perfect stepping stone into that world and I wonder what their approach would be? My preference for the blues is the approach of the guitar players Jesse mentioned. Beck and Ford mix jazz notes in with tradition blues licks. The thing that most impresses me about Chuck and Robert is when they emulate the human voice. This is a unique musical direction for the steel in the blues but it is not exclusive nor is it limited to the Blues only. Buddy's version of "Once Upon A Time In The West" used the same approach applied to a more complex composition. The instrument sings like a human voice. As for this cutting stuff, here's a true story. Kind of funny....I remember going on and on telling a great saxophonist that the steel was as great an improvising instrument as the sax and it could be played pretty much as fast as is needed for Jazz compositions. He invited me to set in with his band the following week. First tune was "Cherokee" at warp speed. Needless to say, I stumbled at best through the tune. He quietly leaned over and asked "how's the steel doing now?" "Now, lets have fun, leave the bull**** at the curb and just play"...Johnny Gore and I became the best of friends..I learned not to exagerate about the instrument and its players to other musicians. With good music and good musicians there's no need for a hard sell. Great music speaks for itself. As for RR, its the same as with several other young steel players. I see a great future for the instrument through their hands, Time will tell.....Paul Edited to explain several questions about points of curiosity I have about the sacred steel scenario.....Paul [This message was edited by Franklin on 23 February 2004 at 08:05 AM.] [This message was edited by Franklin on 24 February 2004 at 07:16 AM.] [This message was edited by Franklin on 24 February 2004 at 08:38 PM.] |
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Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA |
posted 23 February 2004 10:12 AM
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Bob, your so right to go there. I already went over that up above. All you have to do is come downtown and see me busking on the street on a Friday or Saturday night. With the right convention in town you can do much better than any club. I'm not playing Hotel Cal or Rob Zombie cause I don't have to. Would I like to have my own band, of course. I'll do temp jobs sometimes if I like the people. I got out of jail in 91' and was living in Balboa Park under some ponchos in the woods, that's when I got an alto and taught myself bird. I have also lived in a camper truck at the beach for years since then. Obviously I have some personal problems I've been working on and it's not drugs or booze. I used to have a high security clearance and a pretty normal life, things went wrong and I lost everything including a young son who I sued his mother to legitimize against her wishes. I went to jail on no evidence and my dump truck attorney said all I could say was "I wasn't at the mothers house and I didn't push her down onto the couch" the judge said the jury couldn't know about anything to do with family court, no defense no motive. Stupid corrupt Domestic Violence charges that have screwed me and alot of other guys down here, it's just flat out evil. If I didn't have music to hold onto I probable wouldn't be here now. God works in unexplainable ways and I stopped trying to figure that one out a long time ago. This isn't music stuff that you or Dan or Rick are even talking about. And guess what homey, I and none of the other musicians I know have ever heard of you guys either. I've been lucky enough to hook up with a wonderful lady and I have been living up in the hills with her, she's been teaching me computers and it's like being hooked up to the smartest people in the world. But am I gonna be dishonest with you about what I feel based on what I know, I wont go there. I have a great place to rehearse a band now but no one wants to travel this far out. So, I still busk and study because I have the time. But I'll say it one more time, I really gotta put up or shut up, that's only fair. I asked you guys to send me one of Robert's songs so I could tab it out and maybe record my own take on it, but no one has sent me anything? If Bob wants me to quit the forum I will, o.k.? [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 23 February 2004 at 05:41 PM.] |
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Drew Howard Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A. |
posted 23 February 2004 11:52 AM
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I found this link on RR's message board, it's to a clip of his Grammy 2004 performance. It's a big file (26MB), so if you aren't on a cable or DSL line you'll have to wait it out. Thus I suggest right-click to save to your hard-drive. Looks like RR is playing a 13-string (!) guitar, could be the Fessy alluded to elsewhere on the forum. http://stream.dreamhost.com/rrfb_grammys2004_300.wmv cheers, ------------------ |
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Pete Burak Member From: Portland, OR USA |
posted 23 February 2004 12:36 PM
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You haven't heard of Hem?! They Busk! |
Bobby Lee - email: This topic is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 All times are Pacific (US) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
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