I have many bars and love my BJS, but I'd put money down on getting a Zirconia.

Is there a way we can find the minimum order to commision a limited run?

The sales went great as when someone sees and hears Bill Stafford they want what he is using, ..if it had just been me with one, or a flyer/catalog item it would have flopped. Same thing goes re instruments, tunings, amps, etc, ..until a "super picker" is seen with one it does not fly whether it is good or not.

If enough folk are interested in a second run (at least 200 bars) we can run the $s required to get them made, but I/we have no intention of getting into the mess that one instrument maker did back when re pre pay. They will probably cost more than before because the labor cost would have to be included this time, ..last time we were having fun, this time would be work. The shop time (equipment use etc.)would also have to be factored in this time. These are not metal, so metal working equipment does not cut it.

My math, based on your Raw Materials estimate, indicates $50 a bar, not counting tooling, labor, etc. So if you had an order for 200, I suspect they'd sell for around $150.(Please correct me if I'm wrong.) That's double the price of a BJS.

I'd buy one, so we only need 199 more interested pickers.

I believe marketing costs should be avoided. I wonder if the Internet could generate enough interested parties to make this a reality. Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

I just might buy two, and hope sell the extra on Ebay for a profit when they are no longer available.

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Jim Vogan Emmons Sd10
G.D. Walker Stereo Steel Combo
Bakelite Ric
Hilton volume pedal

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom; Sho-Bud LLG

These people have enough capital to make Zirconia bars if they thought there was a large enough demand.

Perhaps we should all write to them requesting that they lease the rights from Bill and Ed and start making them.

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 07 November 2002 at 11:44 AM.]

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

I'm looking for a new bar.

The Two that I've had for 25 years are getting a little dented.

I got them from a Fellow Student of BCs in Maryland. He was in a Branch of the Military, and sold them for 25$ According to him they were made of a "Classified Alloy". Probably some Roswell Stuff. They're 7/8" x 3 1/2" I beveled the end of one.

They're amazing. If you drop them, they'll dent. They're so inert, I heve never seen a string mark on them. I went to chuck them in a lathe, to take the boogers out a few years back, and I couldn't find any grade of emery or croakus cloth that would touch them. It took 6 hours with some kind of diamond dusted cloth to get it done.

Anybody remember those?

Anyhow, I'm hesitant to just get a "stainless" one, and I might be a little dense, But I'm not seeing the molecular physics end of freezing steel to "align" the molecules.

If they were indeed "aligned", wouldn't that make them magnetic??

Any how. These Super Secret Stainless/Moly alloy bars have been the best ever, and I'd like to know just what kind of alloys people are using nowadays.

Gotta Run. I think there are some NSA Agents at my door....

Thanks..

quote:

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But I'm not seeing the molecular physics end of freezing steel to "align" the molecules.

If they were indeed "aligned", wouldn't that make them magnetic??

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Cryogenics, or deep freezing is done to make sure there is no retained Austenite during quenching.

When steel is at the hardening temperature, there is a solid solution of Carbon and Iron, known as Austenite.

The amount of Martensite (the real hard stuff) formed at quenching is a function of the lowest temperature encountered. At any given temperature of quenching there is a certain amount of Martensite and the balance is untransformed Austenite.

This untransformed austenite is very brittle and can cause loss of strength or hardness, dimensional instability, or cracking.

Quenches are usually done to room temperature. Most medium carbon steels and low alloy steels undergo transformation to 100 % Martensite at room temperature.

However, high carbon and high alloy steels have retained Austenite at room temperature. To eliminate retained Austenite, the temperature has to be lowered.

In Cryogenic treatment the material is subject to deep freeze temperatures of as low as -185°C (-301°F), but usually -75°C (-103°F) is sufficient. The Austenite is unstable at this temperature, and the whole structures becomes Martensite.

This is the reason to use Cryogenic treatment.

This process has nothing to do with magnetism ... which basically is the result of small "charged" regions ... called domains ... aligning themselves in a given direction .... when exposed to a magnetic field.

You asked

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I was wondering if any owners of zirc bars have seen any signs of wear (on the bars that is).

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A little bit of discoloration. That's all. No grooves or dings or rough spots.

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Death to all guitar players who hog all the fills and rides.

I'm such a dinosaur...

If it makes me sound GREAT,,,I'll take two,if it makes me sound better than anyone,I'll buy the factory...let me know the feel and weight..Joey,do you think I could lift one? No I dont mean steal one,,I mean Im weak and I dont need a big heavy thing. let me hear from someone. I would be interested in a 10 string bar and an 8 string bar if thats's available..help.

Roy

quote:

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...when we don't use a steel bar it is not a Steel Guitar anymore

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I've always felt we should change the name. "Pedal Steel Guitar" is too complicated for most people to learn.

I propose we change the name of our instrument to TIFKATPSG (The Instrument Formerly Known As The Pedal Steel Guitar.)

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Death to all guitar players who hog all the fills and rides.

What do you guys think?

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Death to all guitar players who hog all the fills and rides.

Yeah, if this catches on, we'll all be playing pedal zirconia guitars...

Hand me those Zircon encrusted tweezers, would ya?