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Author
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Topic: Do All Emmon's Push Pull have "that sound?"
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Bruce W Heffner
Member From: Hamburg, Pa.
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posted 12 June 2003 03:16 AM
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On one of the last sessions the "Maestro" had on his "Q&A" forum he gave us a great tip on an adjustment to push pull guitars that effects the sound. I remember running out to my shop to verify the "method", as always he was correct. I am sure that post is still availiable.  Bruce W ------------------
www.pedalsteel.net |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 12 June 2003 07:39 AM
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How about a link? Enquiring minds wanna know  Mine is going to be 100% when I get it back, but I'd still like to know what the adjustment was. |
Joan Cox
Member From: Eustace, TX USA
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posted 12 June 2003 08:24 AM
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I probably may wish I hadn't, but I would like to make a comment if I may without getting blasted or having a problem with anyone. Johnny did play an Emmons PP from time to time when he was with Ernest Tubb for about a year before he got his first Zum in December of 1979. My first D10 guitar was a 1972 Emmons PP. It warped, and was not playable. I changed brands to a Zum in 1982. We both agree that the Emmons PP is a fine guitar, but we have both chosen to play something else, just as I'm sure many of you have during your years of playing.
Joan [This message was edited by Joan Cox on 12 June 2003 at 08:30 AM.] |
Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 12 June 2003 08:31 AM
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I've been told tightening the screws that holds the necks and changer can make a difference.More body contact.Maybe Bobbe really got the idea from Ann.But I wouldn't know.  [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 12 June 2003 at 10:22 AM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 12 June 2003 08:44 AM
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Bobby Boggs, I'll clear up two statements you just made, First off, the name of my Emmons P-P service is: "The First National Morgue and Delicatesen". And the other question is, who is Ann? (you are a nut Mr. Boggs!) Your buddy, Bobbe |
Rick Tyson
Member From: Ohio
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posted 12 June 2003 09:54 AM
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From what Ive been reading, thightening the changer bolts really makes a difference in timbre on the Emmons??
Well I just got the old pipe wrench out & pulled my guts out on my Emmons changer bolts.
Funny, it still sounds just like my Carter.
Theres a bone for ya
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Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 12 June 2003 09:59 AM
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Just don't try the pipe wrench thing on the Carter. |
Johnny Cox
Member From: The great state of Texas
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posted 12 June 2003 02:27 PM
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Hey C#, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that me playing your PP at the prison rodeo in Huntsville Texas? Good to hear from you. Dumplin |
Rick Tyson
Member From: Ohio
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posted 12 June 2003 04:27 PM
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Ya got me on that one Bobby LOL
I just like to spread a little humor on these threads about tone & sound.
Really got to watch what ya say about tone between models of steels,,,,can get a dog fight goin in no time.
I have a Carter & an Emmons & I love them both because they both have that sound
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Bobby Boggs
Member From: Pendleton SC
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posted 12 June 2003 04:47 PM
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Rick,glad you found the humor in my post.I learned a long time ago that the tone thing is way to subjective to argue about.The Emmons PP tone is my all time favorite.But I like others also.-----------bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 12 June 2003 at 08:55 PM.] |
Cal Sharp
Member From: Gnashville
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posted 12 June 2003 07:34 PM
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Dumplin-Yeah, that's my guitar. Remember they wouldn't let us take the buses in the prison, so getting equipment in was a hassle and we both played my guitar. BTW, Mike Cass & I came down to see you at the Station Inn a few weeks ago but we got there too early and we went to Robert's to kill some time and Mike got sick so we didn't make it back. But I'll see ya sometime, Cal |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 12 June 2003 08:44 PM
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Cal, this isn't the question, the question is, " How did you guys get back OUT of prison?" ( Ha! )
And thanks for loaning me someone elses coat in Wisconsin, when you were with Faron and I was with Paycheck! That coat kept me from freezing!
Talk about steel players helping each other out! Thank the Lord!!! |
Cal Sharp
Member From: Gnashville
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posted 13 June 2003 08:31 AM
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Bobbe -We weren't too worried about getting out, just a little concerned about Faron, who had smuggled in a bottle of whiskey! And, hey, you can borrow my band jacket anytime. :-)> C#[This message was edited by Cal Sharp on 13 June 2003 at 08:32 AM.] |
Paul Graupp
Member From: Macon Ga USA
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posted 13 June 2003 09:11 AM
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Hey, Cal ! If Lester Flatt had a brother named Bobbe, we could call him Bb !! That's where it's at.....Regards, Paul  [This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 13 June 2003 at 09:13 AM.] |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 13 June 2003 10:10 AM
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.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 13 June 2003 at 10:12 AM.] |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 13 June 2003 10:28 AM
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C# and Dumplin'
Of course that's (forumite) Pete Mitchell on guitar standing stage left from JC.------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 13 June 2003 11:22 AM
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Bobbe, I hope you have all your adjustment and tuneup secrets written down somewhere - just in case you get caught in one of those micro downdrafts or whatever in your plane someday.  |
chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 13 June 2003 04:15 PM
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here's my one cent worth: i've heard close as i can come to 'that' sound from my zum with the stock pickup recording direct into the board, also with the zum with an old emmons pickup. also from my old wood neck/body emmons with the stock pickup and with the zum pickup. i've also spent nights with all these configurations when i couldn't get a tone i could stand at all and it made me feel like a loser all night long. my third steel, a fat back emmons (also wood neck/body) with split coil pickups seems to have that warm growling acid-tinged tone more naturally than the others...but i think it's mostly in your fingers and ears, and the louder you have to play, the worse it is...and if your not tuned well enough to relax and pick without thinking, it never sounds good. also, i've beat myself up all night when it sounds sucky to me...and people i trust have told me the tone was perfect out front...but i couldn't tell 'cause i wasn't there! |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 13 June 2003 06:44 PM
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I have an interesting question, How long do you have to leave a Emmons P-P in a hot band trailer in the St. Louis sunshine in the summer before it warps? I just got a very interesting e-mail from someone that saw it happen many years ago. I bet there is someone here that knows.
I wonder how long any other guitar would last under those conditions, I wonder how long a composite,fibre glass or plastic guitar would hold up. How many of you leave your guitar in a band trailer for three days or more at a time? I think I'll do some testing. How 'bout the trunk of a car? In the summer? |
Bruce W Heffner
Member From: Hamburg, Pa.
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posted 14 June 2003 10:16 AM
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There isn't anything that comes close to the push pull sound. Part of it is the positve stops. It isn't the pickups. Bruce W ------------------
www.pedalsteel.net |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 14 June 2003 02:07 PM
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push pull rocks.Can`t get the sound out of it?Well,then you better learn how to play.------------------
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Bruce W Heffner
Member From: Hamburg, Pa.
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posted 14 June 2003 02:50 PM
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Damir, well stated Bruce W ------------------
www.pedalsteel.net |
Cal Sharp
Member From: Gnashville
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posted 14 June 2003 02:55 PM
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Bobbe-I used to leave my P/P in Faron's bus most of the time when were in town between road trips. That bus would sit out in the hot Tennessee sunshine for days at a time. The cross shaft on the 1st pedal did fall off once (like it wasn't long enough anymore), but I used a button off my shirt as a spacer to fix it and played it that way for over 10 years until I rebuilt the guitar. C# |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 14 June 2003 09:10 PM
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Cal,was your Emmons "button on" or "bolt on" or maybe "both on"... ------------------
[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 14 June 2003 at 09:11 PM.] |
Cal Sharp
Member From: Gnashville
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posted 14 June 2003 10:40 PM
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I guess it was a button-down cut-tail. Black, of course. Formal, for evening playing. ;-)> |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 15 June 2003 04:04 PM
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I just played a '73 e Emmons S-10 E9 that had been in 95 degree weather all day.
As well as a torrential downpour and drop of about 20 degrees with in the hour before I played it.
It wasn't warped, though after several sweltering days I might have been. Not a push pull, but it had a great sound from a Fender twin. I sat in on the last few songs of the festival, I had barely gotten the picks on and the guitarist kicked it off. Never dared try the levers on that tune, and good thing too. It was no where near my set up. Still it played well with A&B only and that was all I needed at the time.
I just sort of fell into this totally unexpected situation, and went in and just winged it with success. So, I still prefer my Sho-Bud, it's mine and I know it, but I liked this Emmons too. It had a great tone, different and nice. |
Bruce W Heffner
Member From: Hamburg, Pa.
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posted 17 June 2003 04:08 AM
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Based upon the new post about steel guitar tone, I will state that of all the players who come to my shop, at least 95% of them consider "that sound" to be their objective. How they try to achieve it is the next question. There are a few brands on guitars on the market that have a very good tone and are acceptable; however, only the real thing gets one there.Bruce W ------------------ www.pedalsteel.net [This message was edited by Bruce W Heffner on 17 June 2003 at 07:59 AM.] |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 17 June 2003 06:45 AM
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David, a '73 Emmons would most certainly be a push pull, since it was in the early 80's they went to the all pull LeGrande.I agree, bruce that there are a lot fo enw guitars that can get a GOOD tone, and get close, but only one guitar aout there has the tone of the push pull...... And one thing to remember, even though nothing other than a push pull can get you "that sound", doesnt mean that other guitars cant get you a GOOD tone. Lloyd did quite well, and always had a GREAT tone from the ShoBud's he played for years... and there are many others.... although if the emmons sound is what you want to hear, I"m afraid to say, there is only one way to get THAT. |
George Kimery
Member From: Limestone, TN, USA
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posted 17 June 2003 08:20 AM
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Reggie Duncan posted an audio/video clip some time back playing the turnaround on a song called Something Out Of Nothing. Check this out if you want to hear "that sound" on an Emmons PP. Also, pay attention to the sustain. Plus, Reggie plays killer on it. It was so good, I keep it on my computer desktop and play it quite often. Thanks, Reggie for making it available. |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 17 June 2003 10:42 AM
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George,Mega dittos. Reggie's incredible break on that tune, is one of the best and most beautiful tones I have ever heard by anyone. Reggie needs a tip of the hat for that one. It was a killer. God bless you Reggie, and all of you, carl |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 17 June 2003 12:15 PM
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Could some one post a pic of a Push Pull changer and or general mechanics.
If I see it I can know if it is the same.
I insisted he turn the critter over for a good long look. |
Glenn Suchan
Member From: Austin, Texas
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posted 17 June 2003 01:02 PM
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DANG! I bought a ROSEWOOD S12 p/p last year and now I find out it don't have "That Sound" Heck, I've been playin' it for the last 8 months thinkin' it had it.  Hmmmm, ''wonder if I get it retro-fitted with black mica.... Keep on pickin', ya'll!
Glenn www.kevinfowler.com |
David Mullis
Member From: Rock Hill, SC
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posted 17 June 2003 01:44 PM
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[This message was edited by David Mullis on 17 June 2003 at 08:14 PM.] |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 17 June 2003 02:15 PM
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Check out this page on Carter's web site: http://www.steelguitar.com/steelmap/maptop/ppchangr.htm
Click the links on that page for animated views of lowering and raising. |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 17 June 2003 03:44 PM
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Ok, I guess it was a push pull. Which makes me happier, because I was wanting to try one after following all these PP threads.
I looked at the site above and Gino's pics and It seemed to be a cuttail, but a nice yellow laquer all wood one. No mica to be found. Black serated fingerboard with the playing cards.
It sounded great in the PA and sounded great for me on stage, even if the guitarist amp in my face was away to loud. Someday I'd like S-12 PP I guess.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 June 2003 at 03:55 PM.] |
Chuck McGill
Member From: Jackson, Tn
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posted 17 June 2003 09:05 PM
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You know the Emmons PP is the only steel I know of that brings this much emotion to the
forum. Why is that? |
Nick Reed
Member From: Springfield, TN
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posted 17 June 2003 09:28 PM
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Chuck,
It's because they are the best! And there'll never be another made that will top them. Most of us Emmons Push Pull owners like our guitars the way football fans from Alabama like the Crimson Tide. I have (3) P/P's myself. As Tony the Tiger says, They're Great. Nick [This message was edited by Nick Reed on 17 June 2003 at 09:30 PM.] |
Dennis Manuel
Member From: Wells, B.C., Canada
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posted 17 June 2003 10:02 PM
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Do all Emmons P/P guitars have "That Sound"? Only the 1975 Rosewood I have and her nickname is "Emmo"! LOL.Although I have posted this before I will bore everybody with it once more. I was playing "Emmo" through a Webb amp (the amp I always use) at a local venue one night. The listening audience thought I had bought a new guitar as the tone difference was "That" noticable. The P/P guitars have a very distinctive sound and in my opinion no guitar can replicate "That Sound". When I play my all pull guitar I get many compliments on tone and how great the steel sounds. When I play "Emmo" the compliments are I have never heard a steel sound "That" good. The tone from "That" guitar is simply amazing. There is so much emotion in "That" guitar that when you shiver the bar way up the neck it makes me cry. There is a difference in the sound of a P/P guitar and its a very pleasing sound, believe it. By the way Skip, "Emmo" says hi.[This message was edited by Dennis Manuel on 17 June 2003 at 10:17 PM.] [This message was edited by Dennis Manuel on 17 June 2003 at 10:19 PM.] |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 18 June 2003 06:53 AM
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To quote my band's keyboard/fiddle/accoustic guitarist (who has played with a number of steelers over the years, listens to all the classic country, has near-perfect-pitch, and the ears of a producer) the night he first heard my push pull through my session 400 "now THAT is how a steel is SUPPOSED to sound" --enough said when even a non-steeler who knows music makes that kind of compliment. |
chris ivey
Member From: sacramento, ca. usa
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posted 18 June 2003 11:36 AM
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there were times in the past i couldn't decide who was on what cut...one song i was sure was emmons turned out to be lloyd on, of course, a sho-bud. beautiful is beautiful no matter what it's played on. |
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