(here we go again Jim, Ha! Ha!)

Let's see now guys, which one was "acceptable?"

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 18 June 2003 at 05:50 PM.]

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Bruce W

Just my $0.02 worth.

I haven't listened for a different steel. I will now on the way to the gig tonight.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 21 June 2003 at 07:35 AM.]

I did a session years ago with Albert Lee. The producer asked him to play his old Gibson 'Black Beauty' Les Paul on a couple of tracks, rather than the Tele - listening to those songs years later, neither of us could recall which songs were done with the Gibson. We certainly couldn't tell the difference.

The confusion surrounding Jim's tracks would seem to bear this out.

(I'd still like to have that ex-TW p/p, though!!!!)

quote:

---

Do All Emmon's Push Pull have "that sound?"

---

Yeah, but if you oil them once in awhile, it'll go away.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 22 June 2003 at 07:25 PM.]

My 74 fatback has "that sound" in a huge way, but only when the stops on the guitar are properly aligned with each other.

I was playing the guitar recently with the pedals a little off in places (like the A+F combo), and even though I correct intonation with a little bit of bar slant, the sound was leaving me unimpressed.

I just spent two hours retuning the pedals on the guitar and the guitar came alive in a big big way. I'd venture to say that intonation will have a lot to do with your push/pull having "that sound." The strings have to produce consonant sounds or it will obscure the rich harmonics of the instrument. For some reason (and feel free to dispute this) bar slanting does not produce the same effect, even if you sit there and get it just right and perfectly in tune. It's missing that magic.

Now that The GOAT is well tempered, I am once again certain that I own the finest sounding steel guitar ever made. I mean black album good.

Oh, and it goes without saying that you will only achieve the sound if you tune by ear instead of a tuner. Flame on!

Using a 6-string analogy, I have always thought that a Push-Pull sounded like a Fender Strat and an All-Pull sounded like a Gibson Les Paul.

Both guitars sound good, just different.

The hands are definitely required to bring out the tone in both.

It would be just plain boring if everybody played the same kind of guitar with the same kind of tone.

Terry

The p/p has a harmonic richness to the sound that is not present in all-pull guitars, as fine as they may be. That richness doesn't mean you're a better player, it's just the raw material you choose to work with as a player.

It'll sound different under different hands, and it's not going to alter the sound of anyone's technique. If you buy one and spend a lot of time discovering the colorful sounds it can make, and then practice making those sounds on demand, you will be greatly rewarded. That is true for any guitar, really.

Like many of you I am a fan of Jim's as well and I remember back in 88 he played for the PSGA and I told him back then he had what it takes. It it all came true. He's a great talent.

------------------
Thanks,
Wayne Baker
Emmons Legrande d-10, w/8&5, Emmons S10 p/p
w/3&4 Nashville 400, Boss DD3.

Take the player out of the equation? How? Without a player, there is no sound. Same goes for the amp.

I know a hundred players that went out and bought a p/p Emmons to get "that sound". Well, it didn't work. The "sound" still wasn't there, they still don't have it.

So now, if we don't agree with you about "the sound", we don't have "the ear"?

I need to correct Bobbe's statement. I am NOT the only session guitarist using dad's guitar. Bouton, Johnson and Randle Curry have been recording with Franklin guitars for several years now. In the 80's and early 90's Rugg and Basore recorded with Franklin guitars. Bruce and Mike both bought Franklin's primarily for their studio gigs. I believe Bruce occasionally goes back and forth between his Emmon's and Franklin for the same reason a guitarist chooses between a telecaster and Les Paul.

ALL steel brands have "that sound" which is distinct unto itself. They DO NOT offer the same tonality.

Guitarists learned many years ago to choose the axe that brings out their best performances and they don't buy into the theory that any single axe has the best sound for every situation. The same is true with Psg's. In spite of what this crowd preaches, the PP doesn't offer a great tone for everything, I know because I owned a killer PP. It has a special tone unique unto itself and if that sound is your cup of tea, owning one is the only way to get it.

Tonal characteristics EQUALLY as special are found on other brands which is probably why you don't see great players (Former PP and Sho-Bud legends) going back to the PP or Sho'Bud's they used 20 years ago, today.

I have learned through experience saying one guitar is the Rolls Royce only means there is a Jaguar, Mercedes, Corvette, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lexus, etc yet to drive.

Through the years I have listened to great tonal marriages like Buddy on the Blade, Green on a Sho-Bud, Chalker on his MSA, Brumley on his ZB, Mooney on his Fender. My ears tell me these players have chosen the right axe to deliver their sound.

Paul

By the way, thank you Jody, and others above who've made some nice remarks about my playing. Jody, I certainly recall that day in 1988 when I played my very first steel show and you were so supportive and encouraging. That made a big difference to me in the years that followed, and I've always appreciated your support for a young(er) upstart. I really didn't deserve your praise then but I'm workin' hard to earn it every day.

The answer is yes and no.

Yes, they all have the same tonal characteristics. Which is what Bobbe's talking about and I agree with him that they can all be adjusted to growl.

No, Some PP's are more resonate than others and no amount of adjusting can change that.

Main reason, When you build a guitar with a green piece of wood it will never resonate like and older dried out board does. This is the same reason there is a big variation in the old Sho-Bud's. There were periods when Sho-bud could not get aged wood. I suspect the Emmons company had the same problem.

I should have added a smiley face or two. When I said "in spite of what this crowd preaches". I meant that to be a humourous response to those in this thread who say and believe those of us that do not subscribe to their definition of the PP being superior in tone must not have ears to hear the difference. I think of those guys as the hell and brimstone preachers of steel guitar tone.

The truth is I loved my PP for what it was, as I did my Bud's and MSA and I wish I still owned everyone of those guitars. In the above posts I was only clarifying some misconceptions about dad's guitar and its players stated earlier in this thread. Everything else has to do with my personal opinions and assumptions about tone pertaining to ALL guitars and should be taken as such, just a personal opinion.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, especially this PP crowd.

quote:

---

I have learned through experience saying one guitar is the Rolls Royce only means there is a Jaguar, Mercedes, Corvette, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lexus, etc yet to drive

---

hey,what about Trabant

the only real push pull vehicle in the auto industry.Doesn`t drive to well,but it`s guaranteed to move if you push it or pull it (with the tractor they got the best results)

Db

------------------

"Promat"
~when tone matters~