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Author
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Topic: Would like history lesson----MCI-EMCI guitars
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Eddie Malray
Member From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA
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posted 02 November 2003 05:37 PM
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Hello fellow members: I would like to know the history behind these guitars. For instance, when and who started the company, how did it evolve, and what is it's present status. From what I've seen, they appear to be a very well built guitar and they sounded very good. I'm not planning to buy one(not saying I would'nt)but I would like to know more about them than I do----which is nada. THANKS--------------Eddie Malray |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 02 November 2003 06:00 PM
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My MCI sounds like crap.
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Eddie Malray
Member From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA
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posted 02 November 2003 06:22 PM
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Earnest: I've got an Emmons an a Sho-Bud. They sound like crap too. Wonder why. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 02 November 2003 06:50 PM
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My MCI sounds crappier than my Sho-Bud. |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 02 November 2003 08:19 PM
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I hope you guys are not saying that because Buddy Emmons had something to do with those guitars is why they sound like crap. I have a Mullen I am not totally happy with and would like to trade it off. My best sound I have ever had from a steel was an Emmons push-pull and I regret I ever sold it. As for the MCI guitars, they were already being built before Buddy became involved. Look at the Steel Guitar Classics video recorded in St. Louis in 1986 and Emmons is playing an MCI guitar. Not long after that was recorded I went to a Emmons seminar in Mesquite, Texas and Emmons was playing an EMCI. The guitar sounded great. On the Bell Cove video he is playing an Emmons guitar and it sure sounds good to me. I understand a few years ago there was a lawsuit involving Buddy and Ron Lashley. I never knew the outcome but Buddy is now playing Emmons guitars again. I do not know if you do not like Buddy Emmons or not but he certainly has made the biggest impact on the steel guitar. There are other brands on the market I would not say they sound like crap but they do not sound like what I want to hear. I guess that is why we have a variety to choose from. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in. |
Jim Palenscar
Member From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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posted 03 November 2003 07:54 AM
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There has been a lot written about this here. I have never heard either an MCI nor an EMCI that sounds like crap and, to my mind, they are generally highly sought after for their tone. Obviously exceptions exist (sorry Earnest) and the world keeps turning.[This message was edited by Jim Palenscar on 03 November 2003 at 07:55 AM.] |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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posted 03 November 2003 08:36 AM
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Sarah Jory has been playin'an EMCI for quite a while,
and it sure DON'T sound like crap !
(yes, i know she's gettin' a Mullen !)[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 03 November 2003 at 08:37 AM.] |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 03 November 2003 08:59 AM
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Thanks Jim. That's some bit of reading....[This message was edited by HowardR on 03 November 2003 at 09:12 AM.] |
Nicholas Dedring
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 03 November 2003 09:04 AM
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I may be remembering wrong, but I was told that Buddy Emmons had stopped playing MCI/EMCI guitars because he wanted to have a guitar he could get parts for, and so on... one made by a company that existed.I have an MCI, Waco model (with a rebuilt job of the undercarriage...) I can't say I know enough other instruments intimately to have a comparison in mind, but I've had compliments from other folks who have played it. It's the same basic instrument that Chalker played in a video of his... reasonably light, stable instrument, which was designed by Bud Carter... triple raise, triple lower changer. Mine is wood neck, the Arlington MCIs, as well as so called "RangExpander" MCIs had metal necks, and the EMCIs were most all with metal necks. You can try emailing or calling Bobbe Seymour, he's had a couple in his shop in the past year... he had good things to say about them when I called with some questions a while back. |
Lawrence Lupkin
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 03 November 2003 11:01 AM
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I like my MCI but I bet I'd love it if someone competent was playing it.
[This message was edited by Lawrence Lupkin on 03 November 2003 at 12:55 PM.] |
Bobby Sparks
Member From: Williamston, North Carolina, USA
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posted 03 November 2003 01:02 PM
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Lawrence, you beat me to it! I was going to say my MCI sounds great as long as someone else is playing it!  Nicholas, mine is also a Waco model, and in my highly subjective mind, does sound good. BNS |
Eddie Malray
Member From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA
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posted 03 November 2003 01:52 PM
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Boys-Boys-Boys: You need to go back and reread my post. All I want to know is some history about the guitars. I Did'nt say anything about Buddy Emmons. I don't know if he played one or not and don't care. I just would like to know about the company and it's present status. I WAS ONLY KIDDING ABOUT THE EMMONS AND SHO-BUD SOUNDING LIKE CRAP. Nothing on this earth sounds better. It seems some people don't have any sense of humor and can't read between the lines. |
Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted 03 November 2003 03:19 PM
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Eddie I have been playing an MCI D10 Rangexpander since 1986 - wonderful guitar, and better than my previous ShoBud Super Pro. Emmons was involved with the company at that stage, and Bud Carter and Gene Fields were building them at that stage with welded frames and metal necks (like mine is). The name change to EMCI (E=Emmons) happened not long after i got my guitar in 86', but the name name was the only change I believe - the guitars were still being made the same at that stage. Not sure why they closed up shop because the guitars are fabulous - just upgraded my Pups to George L's and it sounds even better !!! |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 03 November 2003 04:08 PM
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I bought an MCI Rangexpander but it had some problems ( It fell apart). John Burkhead had me send it back to him and built me a new steel. It was an EMCI. There were some major differences in its construction. The biggest difference was the welded frame. It also sounded fantastic.Bob |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 03 November 2003 05:00 PM
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I'd love to see a EMCI that sounds bad, It would be the first one. This guitar was from the master mind of a great steel builder and designer named John Birkhead.
It has been stated by many great players as the greatest sounding All-Pull guitar ever made. I don't go quite this far but it truly does have a great reputation for producing a "Great Sound". I'm looking for one to purchase for myself now. Great guitars.
If you guys hear any that don't sound good, it may not be the fault of the guitar! (know what I mean Vern?)
Have any of you guys ever heard any of Rob Parkers albums? I used a EMCI on several of these sessions. Most folks think it was my P-P Emmons. It sounded great! Ask players like Jay Dee Manius, Mike Cass, Buddy Emmons,Sarah Jory, etc. Honestly , very good guitars, in every respect. Parts? GFI parts will work wonderfully on them! So will some others.
bobbeseymour |
Jody Sanders
Member From: Magnolia,Texas
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posted 03 November 2003 07:38 PM
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The Mci was originally built in Waco with Bud Carter's design. The company was bought by John Burkhead and moved to Arlington. Gene Fields, Red Rhodes, and Buddy Emmons had input on the guitar design. It was after Buddy's entry, the name was changed to EMCI. Jim Smith who was orignally with Dekley was also with the Co. All these people I mentioned were super players and innovators. The EMCI was probably one of the best all pull guitars built.(IMHO) The Co. was sold to Gretch. End of story. Jody. |
Jerry Roller
Member From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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posted 03 November 2003 07:50 PM
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Eddie, I understood what you meant I think. I took it that you were belittling your playing by incinuating "your guitars" sounded bad with you playing them. Maybe not but that is what I thought you meant.
Anyway, I went to Memphis today and met with Mike Cass and picked up a black EMCI from him. It is a paint peeler for sure. Ask anyone who was at the Tulsa shows the last two years. I have stated on this Forum several times that Emmons guitars are my favorite and EMCI was next. EMCI is a great guitar.
Jerry[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 03 November 2003 at 08:02 PM.] |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 04 November 2003 05:15 AM
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Eddie, I apologize to you guys if I have offended you. I suppose I took the comments out of context. The main point is that these guitars are very good guitars. As I stated I saw Emmons live at a seminar playing an EMCI and it sounded great. I recorded it on a cheap cassette player and I let another gentlemen hear it. He was shocked at how well it sounded being recorded on a cheap player. I on the other hand do look at what other steel players use. I figure that the name players do not use junk, especially if they are playing for their income. |
Lawrence Lupkin
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 04 November 2003 07:44 AM
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How do I know which MCI I have? |
John Lazarus
Member From: Tucson, AZ.
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posted 04 November 2003 09:09 AM
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I've had an EMCI for about three years now, and I think is still the benchmark of tone. I am convinced that not all guitars of a certain brand sound alike(i.e. push/pulls), and this is surely the case with the MCI/EMCI's. Along with a couple of friends, we have purchased a bunch of these guitars of varying vintage and tried them all in A/B tests. All were very good, but some stood out above the rest. My EMCI sounds best to me, so it was the keeper.
Bobbe Seymour turned me on to the EMCI welded frame while I was in his shop and for this I am eternally grateful. They are lightweight, good looking, relatively inexpensive, and sound great in sustain and tone.
Finally, let me say that I not talking about the Waco model here, just the welded frame RangeExpander which can be found as an MCI or later as the EMCI. One very slight difference between the two guitars is an additional set of spot welds on the EMCI near the changer which was likely added to keep the changer unit from minutely slipping down in position. We have not observed this additional weld on any MCI's to this point. Also note that some of the early MCI's said "MCI by Carter" on the front decal and had a traditional maple front apron rather than the completely four sided aluminum welded frame. The foot pedal channel is of lighter stock also, not like the heavy extruded stock you find on the later MCI and EMCI. I have played two of these "wood front" MCI's and both sounded different but very good. The EMCI also has a multicolored fret board as opposed to the black and white of the MCI, although the fretboards and markings are identical in all other respects. Tuning keys changed over the years from Shaller to the Gotoh type found on my 1986 EMCI.
I have no experience with the late model "EMCI by Gretch" other than hearing Bobbe play one amazing sounding guitar in his shop. Maybe he can shed some light on the murky ending to the EMCI story.
Hope this helps.[This message was edited by John Lazarus on 04 November 2003 at 09:12 AM.] |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 04 November 2003 09:27 AM
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so is the EMCI/MCI tone more reminiscent of the Emmons tone, or the ShoBud tone...
More importantly, which new production guitar would more closely resemble an E/MCI as for tone/playability? GFI or Carter (both folks had an input from what I've just read 
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John Lazarus
Member From: Tucson, AZ.
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posted 04 November 2003 10:49 AM
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Gino, The sound is much more Emmons than SB in my opinion.
As to Carter vs. GFI, I don't know but I suspect Bobbe would know! I've heard some good things about the GFI, and some not so good things about Carters, but I'd like to try both myself and form my own opinion. If I had to buy a new guitar I'd opt for the Fessenden though. It was the only guitar that gave the EMCI a close run for the money in tone and sustain. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 05 November 2003 07:50 AM
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The "murky ending" to EMCI was an intresting story that I was in the middle of. The president of EMCI, John Birkhead, wanted to buy the Sho-Bud company and asked me to set up a meeting with Fred Grestch. I did, and the meeting took place. Both guys egos took over and a small argument took place which at the end of it, Fred stated, I'll just buy your EMCI company if you don't want to buy my Sho-Bud company. A month later , 6 eighteen wheelers pulled up in front of the EMCI factory, a check was placed into John Birkheads hand, the factory was moved to Ridgeland SC. and the rest is history. Fred built about 40 EMCIs, untill the parts were used up and he got the return on his investment, then shut the manufacturing down on this operation,
as he did Sho-Bud at a later date. A shame, the two greatest "all-pull" guitars ever built, in my humble opinion. bobbeseymour . |
Jim Palenscar
Member From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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posted 05 November 2003 08:01 AM
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Not all EMCI's had colored fretboards (I have a couple that don't). It does seem strange to me that it would take 6 eighteen wheelers to haul what it would take to manufacture/assemble 40 guitars~~? |
Gino Iorfida
Member From: Oakdale, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 05 November 2003 08:33 AM
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i'm sure the 6 18 wheelers were also carrying all the machining equipment as well....... as for the tone, I'd be glad to give a review on one (or any guitar for that matter if someone would kindly donate one to me for such purposes |
Mike Cass
Member From: Nashville,Tn. U.S.A.
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posted 05 November 2003 08:38 AM
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well,
as far as all pull horns go, you'll have to go a ways to find one with better sustain, tone & playability than the EMCI. I was not real fond of SOME early MCI's, but EMCI was definitley a guitar company teetering on the brink of greatness, imho.
Bobbe, thx for the prop & for including my name in that illustrious group of players you mentioned. Its a damm shame that that guitar is no longer being produced.
I sat in Buddy's basement more than several times watching him work on improvements after he became involved with EMCI.
Closed keyheads, pedal design & rod connections, the butcher-block maple top, etc. Those set apart the EMCI from earlier guitars of similar name.
If you dont like yours, dont play it. Better yet, sell it to someone who can get out of it whats in there. I remember "Dukes of Hazzard"..& I could always tell JD's playing on his p/p. The rest was pretty forgetable. I suspect that wouldve been true no matter what brand the sub was using.
no more venom available at this time :-)mc |
John Lazarus
Member From: Tucson, AZ.
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posted 05 November 2003 08:46 AM
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Bobbe, What date did all this happen? When did production finally end? Does that mean that there are 40 EMCI's that bear the "by Gretch" logo like the guitar (I remember a funny pink/purple color) I saw you behind in your shop a few years ago?
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Roger Rettig
Member From: NAPLES, FL
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posted 05 November 2003 10:51 AM
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I had one briefly last year - it was a D10 with 'MCI - by Carter' on the logo.I LOVED the tone of this guitar - it's sustain at the upper end of the neck beat my LeGrande hands down! It had some sloppy mechanics (once a pedal-rod came unhooked while I was playing on stage - embarrassing, as it was my 5th and 10th 'raise'!), but it stayed in tune. Buddy was playing the EMCI on his Christmas album - check THAT one out for tone! RR |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 05 November 2003 10:55 AM
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Jim Paliscar, You doubt six eighteen wheelers? There were several big milling machines, a couple lathes, lots of materials, a lot more than 40 guitars worth of supplies. Does Fred still have this equipment and materials? YES! It's also for sale. As a matter of fact, the entire EMCI "division" is for sale, LESS the machines, which was one of Fred's reasons for buying in the first place. |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 05 November 2003 11:01 AM
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John L., Yes, there are 40 or so D-10s that were built in S.C. by Sho-Bud/Grestch employees, such as Buzz Swindler, Jerry Fessenden etc.. This purchase was in 1989-90 I believe. A sad deal really, great guitars. I'll take all I can get.
bobbeseymour |
Nicholas Dedring
Member From: Brooklyn, New York, USA
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posted 05 November 2003 11:13 AM
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Lawrence, I don't have a vivid picture in my mind of your axe, but I recall that it's metal necked, and has different coating and trim than mine (I have the Waco... which says "MCI, Waco, TX" on the front of it).It probably has a "RangeExpander" tag on the front of it (your guitar), which means it's a range-expander model. I think from what is said above that it might or might not have a welded frame, instead of machine screws, so look for welds vs. machine screws at the joining points of the metal cabinet elements. EMCI's can be identified by the fact that they say "E.M.C.I." on the front FWIW, I'm happy with my Waco, but I've heard pretty much categorically that the welded frame MCIs or the EMCIs were "better" I dunno... I've not played those, so what can I say? |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 05 November 2003 12:12 PM
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I think Earnest is just whining about his tone again this week. He does that now and then. |
Eddie Malray
Member From: South Fulton, Tennessee, USA
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posted 05 November 2003 02:22 PM
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Thank all of you for your great replies. Now I know what I wanted to know. I recently had the pleasure of playing with a very good player by the name of Johnny Jones. He played a MCI. I liked the soung. I also had the chance to check out a D10 EMCI an Bobbe Seymours place this summer. It looked and felt great. It lookes like the way to bring a good product to an end is to sell it to Gretch. Another thing guys, don't take any of my wise cracks seriously. Thanks Again everyone--------------Eddie |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 07 November 2003 02:50 PM
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I have owned two MCI guitars One is a S-10 Ser #LA-1026 the other was a SD-10 ser # L-2152.
The SD-10 I owned for eight years , it was a great guitar with outstanding tone.I bought this guitar from a friend who bought it from Bobbe Seymour. This guitar has now been sold four times that I know of and each time it went for around $ 1500.00.
I still have the single neck, it also plays and sounds great.I will soon have the EMCI D-10 that Buddy played at the show in 86.
That will be the back up for my Legrende 111.I may then sell the single neck and I'll bet I get more than I paid for it.
Great guitars..Sad Story of a company Bud |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 08 November 2003 05:25 AM
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I notice on Billy Cooper,s website he has an MCI for sale on consignment. It was fully loaded and he had listed to call for details. I just thought someone here might be interested. |
Gary Walker
Member From: Morro Bay, CA
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posted 08 November 2003 11:09 AM
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I remember in the mid 80s when Tommy started playing for the Whites and he was playing a black MCI(the first I'd ever seen). Did he get any kind of tone out of it? Do hogs love slop? You bet he did. I still have the video shot of him playing that set. He blew me away and still does, but then again, Tommy can do with rubber bands stretched over a Quaker Oat Meal box. |
Tom Mortensen
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 08 November 2003 11:12 AM
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I played an EMCI for a couple of years.
If my memory is correct it was serial #0012.
The longer I played it the more the pedals felt like a parking brake.
Seems like the changer was binding up on it.
It was a nice sounding guitar.
Wish it hadn't gone bad on me.
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BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 09 November 2003 04:18 PM
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Tom, there was no serial number 0012 EMCI,
unless you or someone else changed it, which I believe is a felony in this country.
You better check your records, and your memory. Do you mean, #0012 MCI? As in Waco MCI?
(I could also have also recomended some type of lube in the changer, and general maint.) Maybe it was a Remington, MSA, Pedalmaster? bobbeseymour |
Tom Mortensen
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 09 November 2003 04:38 PM
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It was a red EMCI that I purchased in 1991 from a dealer in Arizona.
I remember the serial # being so low that I started wondering if it was a prototype or something.
Thanks for the recommendations on lube and such but I have owned a lot of guitars and have been able to keep them running quite smoothly.
The dealer ended up taking that guitar back and stated that other EMCI's had similar problems with the changer.
Just passing on my experience with it.[This message was edited by Tom Mortensen on 09 November 2003 at 04:40 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour
Member From: Hendersonville TN USA
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posted 09 November 2003 05:05 PM
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Amazing! It must be the dealers fault for using WD-40 on the changer.
He was obviously the only dealer in the country that had any trouble with this great Birkhead/Carter/Fields guitar.
Being the largest deale/seller of MCI and EMCI steels this company had, I never saw this problem except by bad servicing by the player. Also, all the prototypes were done on the "MCI" series, of which , there was only one. The "EMCI" series never had any "prototype" serial numbers. I think your guitar must have been one of the copies made in Houston TX. in the mid eighties as a prototype for another guitar company. If I knew who the dealer was, I'd know if I were right or not. Am I warm with the Houston connection? The longer one lubes with the improper product, the worse the guitar will play, no doubt. Actually, no oil based lube is good in the changer, silicone is a proven winner at this point, (according to Duane Marrs and many other builders). My experience in doing repairs and building steels for all my years has proven Duane to be quite correct. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 09 November 2003 at 05:11 PM.] |
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