|
Author
|
Topic: Zum Steel Guitars
|
Samuel E. White
Member From: Greeneville TN.
|
posted 13 October 2004 03:32 PM
profile
Why does it take almost a year and a half to build a Zum Steel guitar??Maybe they need someone like me to build them.I should be able to build one a day as long as they have the parts for me.I was told a guy has been waiting almost a year and a half for a Zum steel to be built. I wish they would hurry a little I'm waiting for my New Emmons that that guy is using while he is waiting for his new ZUM
Sam White
|
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
|
posted 13 October 2004 03:45 PM
profile
I agree with you Sam. It is ridiculous.Carter can deliver in 30 to 60 days tops.
MSA Millenium can deliver in 60 days about. So what is this with Zum , Emmons and Mullen? Six month to a year or so.? Is it because they are so busy and selling more guitars than Carter Guitars.? It's hard to believe that.....al  ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ [This message was edited by Al Marcus on 13 October 2004 at 03:48 PM.]
|
Mike Weirauch
Member From: Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
|
posted 13 October 2004 04:44 PM
profile
Bruce builds his guitars one at a time with care and precision. He has more orders facing him at any given time (well over 100) than any other builder in the business yet he chooses to build them one at a time HIMSELF! Bruce is a perfectionist and will not let one leave his shop until it meets his standards of excellence. How do I know this? He built me 1 and 1 is all I will ever need! Mine was sent to me in 2002 and the wait then was 9 months but business has increased since then so sit back and find something or someone else to complain about Sam and leave Bruce to building his guitars ONE AT A TIME WITH CARE AND PRECISION! quote:
I should be able to build one a day as long as they have the parts for me.
I pity the poor sap that would get that guitar! |
Samuel E. White
Member From: Greeneville TN.
|
posted 13 October 2004 05:52 PM
profile
Hey Mike it is all in the know how.I built two in about three weeks only because I had to waite for some parts to be shipped.They turned out to be good steels and i sold both of them.
Sam White |
Dan Hatfield
Member From: Columbia, Mo USA
|
posted 13 October 2004 07:07 PM
profile
Hey Sam and Al, with all due respect, you guys should do a little research before you spout off about something of which you know nothing!!!! Do you guys have any idea how many of the top players (e.g. Hal, John, Doug, Randy, and the list goes on and on) swear by Zum guitars?????????Sorry about being so blunt, but I can't let comments like that go unanswered.
Dan |
Tiny Olson
Member From: Tribes Hill, NY, USA along the Erie Canal in the beautiful Mohawk River Valley
|
posted 13 October 2004 07:14 PM
profile
I have to side with Mike... and Bruce Z.I have had a 23 yr. friendship and professional relationship with Bruce Zumsteg and he is without question, a man of his word and a perfectionist in his work. The guitars he builds are the most desired pedal steels going these days and he builds each one himself. He is constantly researching, experimenting and incorporating new ideas into his products in order to stay on the cutting edge. By doing so he continues to move ahead and make the ZumSteel even better (if that's possible.?.?) He doesn't give false account of the ammount of time a guitar will take in being built and delivered to his customers either. He lets them know right up front with a very accurate estimation of the projected delivery date. Bruce is one super guy and I had to say this on his behalf. He's always done right by me. Chris "Tiny" Olson |
Jack Dougherty
Member From: Spring Hill, Florida, USA
|
posted 13 October 2004 07:28 PM
profile
I've had mine for over 20 years.......It worked then and still does.....Bruce stands alone behind every guitar......Anybody who has one and who ever hopes to have one should know this.....It's not a matter of parts....It's a matter of personal pride. BZ don't build no junk!!! But if it's a matter of waiting for one....remember ...the second coming of Christ will be a bit longer...JD
PS: HELLO TINY!!!!
|
Gary Sill
Member From: Mt. Zion, IL, USA
|
posted 13 October 2004 08:18 PM
profile
I would suggest that Sam and Al both take a trip to see Bruce in Missouri visit with him and then come back and report on why it takes one man so long to produce the level of product he does. At least when I ordered my Zum all along Bruce said he would refund the $200 if I decided I did not want it at any time during the first months of waiting. Sometimes gestation needs its time. Patience wins in the end. Visit with Bruce and you'll be all right in the end. |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
|
posted 13 October 2004 08:20 PM
profile
It doesn't take a year & a half to build a guitar. It just takes around 14 months to get to start on that guitar.That's the way it is. You accept it, or you don't. If Mr. Zumsteg tells you that it's an 18 month delivery, it's your decision. If he delivers in 18 months or less, he's a man of his word. So far I've heard nothing to the contrary. You can't tell him how to operate his business. Not when he makes one of the finest steels that there is. |
KENNY KRUPNICK
Member From: Grove City,Ohio
|
posted 13 October 2004 09:53 PM
profile
What Mike,and Tiny said!  Bruce builds one of the finest steels available today,and he puts his heart into each one. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
|
posted 13 October 2004 10:03 PM
profile
I've been keeping an eye on Bruce's steels for years now. The amazing thing is they keep getting better and better. The guitars I checked out in St Louis this year, both the standard changer and the hybrid, were a couple of the best steels I have ever played.------------------
Bob
intonation help
|
Bill Simmons
Member From: Keller, Texas, USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 12:04 AM
profile
It's really very basic and simple...it is the heavy demand by so many players for his quality steels that have backlogged the delivery dates. The actual 'assembling time' is not the problem...it is when Bruce can actually begin building the steels. My buddy and I both ordered the new Zum 'Hybrid' model yesterday and we may not see them until 14-18 months from now because of the strong demand. As far I understand, it is only Bruce building them. He does not want to produce an assembly line instrument or hire other people to build the Zum other than himself. For me, it is well worth the wait. If waiting was a problem, there are other good builders that could get me their steel sooner. In the meantime, I will suffer playing my super sounding '79 Zum birdseye maple! HA HA [This message was edited by Bill Simmons on 14 October 2004 at 12:13 AM.] [This message was edited by Bill Simmons on 14 October 2004 at 09:04 AM.] |
Smiley Roberts
Member From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075
|
posted 14 October 2004 12:30 AM
profile
Sam,Al,
Would y'all like a little hot sauce with that "crow" yer gonna hafta eat? Bigsbys were somewhere in the 2 yr. waiting period.------------------
~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com |
CrowBear Schmitt
Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
posted 14 October 2004 01:03 AM
profile
i was very lucky to get a Zum off ebay
it was previously owned by Mike Smith and was about 20 years old (Blue D10 9/8)
it is a wonderful instrument
if i had the $$$, i'd order a new one from Bruce and wait for however long it would be to make it
it's well worth the wait
same goes for JCH, Fulawka, Anapeg and other marvelous craftsmen  [This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 14 October 2004 at 01:04 AM.] |
Larry Behm
Member From: Oregon City, Oregon
|
posted 14 October 2004 04:42 AM
profile
I have heard that to buy a Sheerhorn guitar you will wait about 3 years and will cost $4000. They are worth it.Larry Behm |
Leland Ogle
Member From: Baxter Springs, Kansas, USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 05:39 AM
profile
I own three Zumsteels, one that I bought used from Bruce, and two that I ordered. Bruce's delivery time for both guitars was exactly what he said it would be and was well worth the wait. When I thought about selling my 93 D-10 I quickly found out that I could sell it for almost exactly what I paid for it in 1993. I just couldn't bring myself to part with it because it sounds and plays so good. On top of this, Bruce is a truly class act. He says what he will do and then does exactly what he said he would do.
I've known him since 1981 and look forward to many more years of freindship.
Lee |
Mike Headrick
Member From: Jasper, TN, USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 06:15 AM
profile
I was on the waiting list for about a year. I think Bruce did me a favor and pushed mine along a bit so that I could use it on my last CD. As a "thank you" I made sure it was pictured on the cover. In the process of building it (which only seemed to take about two weeks after he got started) we talked many times. Sometimes he would call me with questions and other times I would call him with extra things I wanted. When I sat down behind that Zum for the first time I couldn't believe what a precision instrument Bruce had built. I ordered it loaded and it had to be a work of genius to get all that stuff under the guitar and make it play as well as it does. I don't think Superman could have built the guitar I got in less time. You couldn't possibly work with a nicer guy than Bruce. He's absolutely fair in every case, and he has his clients' best interest in mind. [This message was edited by Mike Headrick on 14 October 2004 at 06:19 AM.] |
Del Mullen
Member From: Flagler Co. USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 07:30 AM
profile
I am not sure how Zum operates, but I can tell you this, Bruce builds a fine guitar, and quality takes time. With there being well over 250 different parts in a steel guitar, it does take time to make sure these parts are in stock.
To clarify about the Mullen, We build every single part here, and also build one of the finest steel guitars on the market. We now have our delivery time down to 3-6 weeks. The only guitars that take longer are the extreme custom stuff. For example the complaints of our delivery time have been on custom orders such as left handed models, HWP models, and custom wood models. These types of guitars also consumes a lot of time of ours. We can assemble a guitar in 4 hours, however if you do not have all the parts then it doesn't matter how fast you can build one. Also our obligations are not limited to one guitar, we have several on order which we have to prep for. Every part on our guitar is precision machined in our factory, and with the CNC machines costing over $100,000 each, it is not possible to fill the shop with them, so we only have one, therefore it takes time and a good schedule to keep parts in stock. Our whole objective is to build the best quality guitar we can, not the quickest, but now we have managed to do both. 3-6 weeks on a new guitar should be nothing to complain about.
I would also like to add one more point about the steel guitar. It is not an industry where you can set up a production line and manufacture guitars left and right, rarely do we manufacture two guitars alike. The setup, colors, options, and models all vary from order to order. Therefore we cannot mass produce any specific guitar, because of this it takes time.
Sincerely,
Mike Mantey
Sales and Production Manager
Mullen Guitar Co., Inc.
[This message was edited by Del Mullen on 14 October 2004 at 08:45 AM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 09:02 AM
profile
This is all a big misunderstanding. If it takes a year to get a Zum, and Bruce has 100 orders, then he is making about two a week. Which is much less time than Sam claims it took himself. The problem is that, as been mentioned, Bruce does all the work himself, and when you call him, he will pick up the phone himself and interupt his work with a long friendly detailed discussion of your problem.It is his superior design that makes his guitars so great. And it seems like he could teach one or two other guys how to assemble new guitars. Also, it would be really nice if he had an extra guy to work on repairs and reconditioning. There probably aren't that many repairs, but, for example, I would like to send my '90s Zum to him to add a pedal and replace the old bellcrank/pull rod assemblies with the new kind, that are easier to make setup changes with. But Bruce apparently feels he can't trust anyone else with the work, or that it would cost too much. So he keeps his operation a one-man thing. The other big name manufacturers have more employees. Even Bobbe Seymour and Scotty have extra employees handling repairs and reconditioning. Ya just gotta take Bruce Zumsteg in his own way, and be thankful we have him. |
Ivan Posa
Member From: Hamilton, New Zealand
|
posted 14 October 2004 12:26 PM
profile
I have been waiting nearly 4 years for my Anapeg. Mine is in the current production run of 4 instruments. I tell Noel that I will be too old to play it by the time he is finished. If you wish to see perfection, you need to eyeball one of Noel's masterpieces. Unbelievable workmanship. The wait will be worth it aswould the wait for a new Zum. Be patient....IP------------------
|
Larry R
Member From: Navasota, Tx.
|
posted 14 October 2004 01:13 PM
profile
Mike Mantey of (Mullen Guitar Co) is right about all that is involved in the process. Mike didn't mention that personell have to be trained to work the machinery unless the person has worked with it beforehand.
I waited 9-10 months back in 1996 for my first Lacquer SD10 from Del. A few months ago I ordered a new D10 and got it in 5 weeks. They have really improved their processes in the last 8 yrs. |
john buffington
Member From: Owasso Ok USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 01:30 PM
profile
My heartwood guitar took a few extra months to build and was well worth the wait. (You can see it on their website.) Would I do it again - in a heartbeat. Lacquer body guitars require more time and this makes the sixth Mullen guitar I have owned.
John Buffington
Mullen Guitars Webb Amps |
John De Maille
Member From: Merrick,N.Y. U.S.A.
|
posted 14 October 2004 01:34 PM
profile
I waited exactly 9 months for my new Zum. And, that's exactly what Bruce quoted, right on the money. I've had this steel for a year now, and still can't get over how easily it plays and sounds. It took me 27 yrs. to buy a new steel and I don't think I could have made a better choice. Bruce is truly a great craftsman who stands behind his product.And, that's a fact. |
Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
|
posted 14 October 2004 05:05 PM
profile
Hey Smiley-I was just makeing a comment on Sam"s post.Sam brought it up and I also wondered why some builders took a lot longer than others. We all got some pretty good answers on this post. Thanks...Isn't this forum great?....al ------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/ [This message was edited by Al Marcus on 14 October 2004 at 05:14 PM.]
|
Samuel E. White
Member From: Greeneville TN.
|
posted 14 October 2004 05:06 PM
profile
I did not know this would stir up a bunch of guys getting up set. The part about me building one a day was a joke and anyone could see that.I did not know it took that long for some guys to build a Steel Guitar.At that rate they can't be making a lot of money. I would never throw a Steel Guitar builder down I know the work that goes in them.I do not know Bruce but i bet he is a great Guy. He has to be because he builds Steel Guitars.
End of Story Sam White |
Paddy Long
Member From: Christchurch, New Zealand
|
posted 14 October 2004 05:11 PM
profile
I think the whole point is that Bruce has so many guitars on order that if you want to order one now, your going in to a fairly long queue !! It will be 18 months by the time he gets to where you are in the queue!Being a fairly new Zum owner myself I can tell you that they are worth the wait, and then some ! |
Tim Hurst
Member From: Newport, TN
|
posted 14 October 2004 05:25 PM
profile
It's not just pedal steels that take a long time to get. Anytime you order such a specialized or custom product you have to accept that it takes time for a craftman to turn out a product that both he and you will be proud of. I have a luthier friend who makes high end acoustic instruments, many of them for people of celebrity status. He has told me that he has orders to keep him busy for several years. Some time ago I read of a gunsmith who builds only custom pistols in his one man shop and has a three year waiting list.
I have owned two of Bruce's steels. The first one took about six months to get back in the eighties and the second one which I got about three years ago took about ten months. Both were worth the wait.
|
Darrell Klein
Member From: Spokane, Washington, USA
|
posted 15 October 2004 12:59 PM
profile
I have owned Emmons,Sho-Bud,Fender in several models single 8 & 10 to double 10.
My last one was an Emmons PP. I bought a
Sho-Bud Pro 11 Dbl 10 8/4 in 1975. My opinion it has given me the best sound over
the years. I been at it over 40 years.
I have a new Zum Dbl 10 8/6. The excellence
in construction of the Zum is top notch.
I love my Zum and I love my Sho-Bud, but I have to admit the Zum responded much faster
when I take into consideration that I am 72 years young. God bless all you pea pickers,
and steel players alike. Bruce Zumsteg is one swell person. This means you too, Bobbe S. I love you all!!!!! Darrell Klein. Spokane, Wa. |
Samuel E. White
Member From: Greeneville TN.
|
posted 15 October 2004 04:54 PM
profile
Mike why don't you put all the stuff you have been E-Mailing me on the Forum.I do not need your harrasment at this time I have a big problem worrying about my Wife and her Cancer so stop E-Mailing me.I only wanted to know why it took so long to build a steel Guitar.Sorry i even asked.
Sam White |
Samuel E. White
Member From: Greeneville TN.
|
posted 15 October 2004 04:58 PM
profile
Bob close this thread there are to many hard heads out there and I'm just trying to learn a little more that i did not know
Sam Whit |
Tony Rankin
Member From: Miamisburg, OH USA
|
posted 16 October 2004 09:15 AM
profile
Whatever it takes, it's worth the wait! I am now waiting on my third. |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
|
posted 16 October 2004 10:21 AM
profile
If anything, Bruce Zumsteg is going to be even busier than he is now. His new changer designs make his guitars sound fantastic. I have never met him but he's gotta be a mechanical genious. |
Mike Weirauch
Member From: Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
|
posted 16 October 2004 11:28 AM
profile
Sam, you sent me six (6) emails and I answered them with three (3) emails. I re-read my emails and even though they were concise and straight forward, they were in no way mean spirited or harrassing. I'm sorry if you see it that way. [This message was edited to further prevent ignorance] [This message was edited by Mike Weirauch on 16 October 2004 at 11:38 AM.] |
David Nugent
Member From: Gum Spring, Va.
|
posted 17 October 2004 04:10 AM
profile
Sam,
I was saddened to read of your wife's illness, a fact I was not aware of. I wish you both all the best, and all my hopes for her complete and speedy recovery.David |
Billy Woo
Member From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
|
posted 18 October 2004 10:51 AM
profile
Mr. Sam White, I have respect for you as I know you are the President of the Steel Guitar Association in your part of the country thereby you are a man to be treated with dignity and respect also there have been many threads of positive impact that I've noticed from your threads. Sorry to hear about your wife and hope you understand that alot of folks myself included are somewhat biased toward Bruce Zumsteg and his making of steel guitars and of course his timetable, I ordered a Black & White Universal last December and hope to get it this December..12 months to wait IS a long time but worth the wait as I have one of Bruce's earlier (90's) steel guitars and it's just great as well. I'm not a Pro player by any means but I've been playing music for (40) years now and know a great instrument when I hear one. Sorry some of the other fellas are givin you a hard time, I've gotten my huevas busted some by some other guys over stoopid stuff. Please dont worry, Sam. Take Care Bronco Billy
Zumsteel U-12 |
Ron Steenwijk
Member From: Greensburg,PA
|
posted 18 October 2004 01:55 PM
profile
Let me start of by saying that my thoughts are with you Sam.I know what it is to loose someone on cancer.
But there are somethings that are disturbing me.I am a steel builder myself.I am not that bigga builder like Bruce or Del or Ron for that matter but i do know what it takes to build a fine and good working steel guitar.My steels are hand made and it takes me over 2 months to finish a steel.I don't have the machinery to make every part with CNC machines.
When it is done it is in excellent shape and condition.
I know that most of the builders are holding on to a waiting list of 2 to 3 months.
And like Mike said in his post before quality takes time.But what Mike did not mentioned is how many people are working on a steel guitar.Some company's are one-man company's (like mine) but most of them are runned by several people.Like Carter for example.
It takes Bruce more time to build a steel then a different dealer or manufactor.So be it.
quote:
He does not want to produce an assembly line instrument or hire other people to build the Zum other than himself.
Maybe you should be glad you haven't ordered a Anapeg. Ron Nikaro D10 9x10 |
Terry Sneed
Member From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA
|
posted 18 October 2004 06:13 PM
profile
quote:
We now have our delivery time down to 3-6 weeks.
That's exactly what Mike told me when I asked about a Mullen. After hearing three different Mullen guitars Sat night along with emmons, Zums,MSAs,JHCs, I'm thinkin a Mullen will be the guitar I choose.They got the tone I'm lookin for. that is if I can ever get the bucks.
Terry ------------------
84 SKH Emmons Legrand D10
session 400'rd Steelin for my Lord. [This message was edited by Terry Sneed on 18 October 2004 at 06:17 PM.]
|
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
|
posted 19 October 2004 03:23 AM
profile
OK guys,i can't even begin to say what i'd like to.but i can only say from dealing with Bruce since 1984!!they just don't come no better!anytime you call Bruce he will stop everthing and help you get to the bottom of the problem.folks,i've owned a machine shop for 30+yrs.had to hire machinest,and welders,don't care how good they were,always something wrong!!I ask Bruce if he ever did any machining hisself,he said no way,all he had time for was to build guitars.can't even imagine putting one out and not knowing where something was wrong or not.not meaning to be cruel,but no one will put there heart in it as he does.been there,if it almost fits,beat it on,or grind heck out of it,ect.
BRUCE is doing # one job!!! farris |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
|
posted 19 October 2004 04:29 AM
profile
I think that the value of the parts a builder is able to hold in inventory, the degree to which he is willing to let perfectionism slide and farm out work, and the willingness to say "What I have now is good enough - I don't need to do any more research or tinkering" must all factor into this. Standardization and mass production techniques have their pluses, and minuses. If you want a Carter, now, buy one - I did, it works great. If you want a Zum, have you considered offering him $10,000 or $15,000 to see if he can readjust his production schedule a wee bit? |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
|
posted 19 October 2004 05:25 AM
profile
David,ya'll got me stired up{i'mlaughing}in the world we live in,i've been through a lots.made hydralic cylinder parts for 8yrs.
we had a go and no go gauge.we had a plus .002and minus nothing.parts were sent to heat treat then ground to within 1/2thousands,i have to consider,the cost,all that is made on a guitar is not profit.can we imagine how many pcs.are in a steel?don't know how many Bruce builds in a yr.but say 100,mabe clears 1000.00 per steel,can we even imagine the cost of all those parts?hell a man be luck to break even.you have all the cabinets,legs, pullers pedals,pedal boards,pickups,keys,necks,on and on.I think he should charge more!!!Yea,if he could put out a few thousand each yr.but then they sure wouldn't have that BRUCE special touch huh.I'm gonna git out of here!!!!!!!!!!! |
The Steel Guitar Forum
