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  A whole new ERA for the Sho-Bud (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   A whole new ERA for the Sho-Bud
tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 25 October 2005 05:11 PM     profile     
Is it possible that the arrival of these new guitars by the man who made more original sho buds than anyone else will cause the demise of restored quasi shobuds?
Jim Phelps
Member

From: just out of Mexico City

posted 25 October 2005 05:21 PM     profile     
I'm thinking no. There will still be people who want the original old Sho-Bud but newer guts. The Jackson steel may even be just that, but I'd bet some will not consider it quite the same as an old Sho-Bud.

Just my guess.

Duane Reese
Member

From: Salt Lake County, Utah

posted 25 October 2005 05:51 PM     profile     
Is it safe to say that people really dig the pure mystique of and actual Sho-Bud? They have a sound, and a feel and a look all their own that's just like an old friend. And you know, when something is really special like that you never want to see it go away. How would it be if you could actually order or buy a brand new Sho-Bud, right now, from the factory just how you like it the way you can with, say, a Carter or Mullen? Just imagine all the classic style, the same great mechanics and the same great tone.

But friends, those days are gone, and people who long for the good ole days will want the real thing. Since there are no new Sho-Buds being built, they are kind of a collector's item now.

I would personally rather have Sho-Buds being built again though, the way they were (only maybe better with the John Coop stuff). Look on that other thread with James Morehead's Sho-Buds and see how good of work he does. WOW

[This message was edited by Duane Reese on 25 October 2005 at 05:53 PM.]

Jim Phelps
Member

From: just out of Mexico City

posted 25 October 2005 06:04 PM     profile     
LMAO
Duane Reese
Member

From: Salt Lake County, Utah

posted 25 October 2005 07:13 PM     profile     
What's funny about that?
Jerry Roller
Member

From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

posted 25 October 2005 07:34 PM     profile     
I played with a group who opened for Karen Peck last year in Roland, Oklahoma and David Jackson was there and he told me some of what he was doing in the design and building of this new guitar. He told me enough to know that it is going to be something very special. David was very excited about it. He is a great guy to talk to and it is quite evident that he knows what he is doing. It should be very interesting. I would love to try one out. At least one mighty big name in Nashville has tried it out and is very impressed with it.
Jerry

[This message was edited by Jerry Roller on 25 October 2005 at 07:36 PM.]

tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 03:55 AM     profile     
Jerry, As far as I am aware the only two really very big names in Nashville are Loyd Green and Buddy Emmons!
Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 26 October 2005 05:22 AM     profile     
I wonder if the guitar body & fretboards will display hearts, clubs, & diamonds like the original Bud's did. NR
Chuck McGill
Member

From: Jackson, Tn

posted 26 October 2005 06:53 AM     profile     
I just love all this talk about a new Sho-Bud and the old ones too.
Charlie McDonald
Member

From: Lubbock, Texas, USA

posted 26 October 2005 07:17 AM     profile     
This reminds me of the discussion of the Fender name (a G&L is not a Fender, etc).
I think this all means that a Sho-Bud will always be the only Sho-Bud, even if something comes along that is a direct descendent.
So David knows he can't call it a ShoBud, because it's not a ShoBud, but it can be 'something similar', in the words of Brother Dave Gardner.
Jackson--a good name.
tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 07:26 AM     profile     
I think that Jacson Pedal Steel will be the closest thing to an original shobud that you can get built. Just like the new MSA's. I just can't wait to place my order. Both old and new shob uds will be built by the same builder - David Jackson, just like old MSA's and new msa's are built by trhe same builder.
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 26 October 2005 08:01 AM     profile     
Hearts, Diamonds, Spades and Clubs, how many of you mistakenly thought Sho-Bud was the first major custom guitar builder to use these charictors? Care to guess who was the first? By over 12 years? This was a great and very famous builder that Sho-Bud copied in many other ways also.
This was not a Sho-Bud first.

Bobbe

tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 08:05 AM     profile     
I think that Jacson Pedal Steel will be the closest thing to an original shobud that you can get built. Just like the new MSA's. I just can't wait to place my order. Both old and new shob uds will be built by the same builder - David Jackson, just like old MSA's and new msa's are built by trhe same builder.
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 26 October 2005 08:12 AM     profile     
So who is responsible for the pot metal parts on my Pro III that I will have to pay to replace, David Jackson or Fred Gretsch? I'm all for keeping the discourse civilized. But I also want real opinions from the pros and experts, with nothing held back. We consumers and players deserve that here on the Forum. As far as I can tell, after the very earliest models, Sho-Buds were mechanically behind the times and inconsistent, compared to other pedal steels on the market, starting with Emmons and MSA (which have stood the test of time much better). And I have never understood what people mean by the "Sho-Bud sound." Sure Pete Drake and Lloyd sounded great on all those Nashville hits; but they would have sounded great on any of the top guitars of their time. To me the sound of Sho-Bud guitars in average hands is erratic and not particularly distinctive. I think it is the gorgeous classic looks, the mystique, and the nostalgia that keeps us loving Sho-Buds. But let's be realistic about the mechanics and sound. If David Jackson is going to compete with Franklin, Zum, MSA, Fessenden, Excel, Williams, Mullen, GFI, etc., I hope he gets up to modern speed on the mechanics, as well as the looks.
Mark Eaton
Member

From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA

posted 26 October 2005 08:25 AM     profile     
I think this is pretty exciting stuff, and am looking forward to David Jackson's "debut."

How many guitar companies that no longer exist have people walking around wearing a new (or not very old) tee shirt with their name on it?

We obviously don't know all the business ramifications, and Mr. Jackson's reasons and motivations-but take a look at the number of posts here on this thread in a short amount of time: If I were David Jackson, and the possibility existed-I would start up the new company with the Sho-Bud name.

Take a look at Dobro. Gibson acquired Dobro in 1993, more than anything to own the name. Since that time they have made some good resonator guitars, and some are pretty poor quality. But the name has magic in it. Shoot-most of us still use that name when referring to our reso, no matter who built it.

In this case, it is the guy that actually was in charge of the building Sho-Buds starting up a new company. So it wouldn't be like he is capitalizing on a name because people recognize it and he previously never had anything to do with it-as was the case with Gibson and Dobro.

I think I'll go change into my Sho-Bud tee shirt now.

------------------
Mark

Tommy M
Member

From: Indiana

posted 26 October 2005 10:23 AM     profile     
Bobbe,

Wouldn't that have been Bigsby? On the custom electric guitar that he built for Merle Travis.

Tommy Minniear

Rex Thomas
Member

From: Thompson's Station, TN

posted 26 October 2005 10:45 AM     profile     
Uh, Domland?
Mark Eaton
Member

From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA

posted 26 October 2005 11:02 AM     profile     
On that third small photo on the Jackson Steel page, it sure looks like the logo underneath the tuners reads "Shot Jackson."

Pretty cool of David Jackson, paying homage to his dad.

------------------
Mark

tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 12:02 PM     profile     
Since the Jacksons own the shobud name would it not make sense for them to use the Sho bud name?
Mark Eaton
Member

From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA

posted 26 October 2005 12:11 PM     profile     
Is it clear that they own the name as it pertains to producing guitars, or just rights to music publishing in using that name?

------------------
Mark

Ken Byng
Member

From: Southampton, England

posted 26 October 2005 12:16 PM     profile     
.....And I have never understood what people mean by the "Sho-Bud sound."

Along with the Emmons sound, the ShoBud sound is the holy grail that set the standards for all others to follow. It is distinctive, yet difficult to describe. Clean, defined, sparkling, full......

Mechanically inferior compared to the modern guitar, but like a Telecaster compared to a PRS the ShoBud has THAT sound.

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 26 October 2005 12:26 PM     profile     
Tommy M., Yes! You are correct.
tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 01:32 PM     profile     
Does anyone have David jackson's email address?
tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 01:40 PM     profile     
This link fills in some of the blanks in the Shot Jackson story:
http://www.planet.eon.net/~gsimmons/shobud/shot.html
Ricky Davis
Moderator

From: Spring, Texas USA

posted 26 October 2005 02:04 PM     profile     
tbhenry; David will answer your questions from the fill out form here> www.jacksonsteelguitars.com
Also the link to a bit of biography of Shot and Sho-bud is a start at filling in the blanks; but anyone wanting to know the "Truth" about Shot Jackson and Sho-bud steel guitars and the design and building of them; I would suggest speaking to the folks that were there and still alive, like I have.
Although we have lost Big Jim Murphy and Dick Miller; who have passed on a huge amount of info to me> certainly Lloyd Green; Duane Marrs and Harry Jackson and Al Udeen and Ron and Leslie Elliot and Donna Darlene(Shot's widow) are all still alive and well and WERE THERE; and believe me it was Harold Shot Jackson who called all the shots and all major decisions on design and building the Sho-bud; as Shot continued to build Sho-buds at 416 Broadway; even when he turned day to day operations over to David at 2nd Ave.
Shot Jackson IS Sho-bud and will always be Sho-bud and should always be credited with the design and building/operations of "The Real" Sho-bud> PERIOD.
Ricky

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 26 October 2005 at 02:13 PM.]

Willis Vanderberg
Member

From: Bradenton, FL, USA

posted 26 October 2005 02:14 PM     profile     
I just wondered , if Gretsch did in fact sell the name in 2001, why did they threaten to sue me for advertising a
" Sho-Bud case" for sale a couple of years ago on the Forum ?
I am sure bob remembers the deal because he pulled my ad. I received an e-mail from Gretsch informimg me that they owned all rights to the ShoBud name.

Bud

Bud

Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 26 October 2005 02:46 PM     profile     
Let's not forget Mr. Paul Franklin Sr, also his daughter Theresa Galbraith, and Johnny Cox all three were part of Sho-Bud at one time.

Bobbe, you and Buddy Elkin can probably relate to this. . .Jack Bowles, who once hosted the Sho-Bud Showcase Radio program on WSM many years ago is still around and living in Franklin, TN. He's a walking encyclopedia about Sho-Bud stuff. NR

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 31 October 2005 at 06:14 PM.]

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 26 October 2005 03:45 PM     profile     
So is George Lewis, that owned 20% of Sho-Bud, funny none of the new "know it alls" ever mentioned this. The Geo. L. folks should be put on the "history list".
A lot of strange twists and turns in this history.
Yes, Ron and Leslie Elliott are good folks
to relate a lot of this history, but again, David is the best to ask, he had "Music City Mfg.", PERIOD! (Ha! Ha!)

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2005 at 04:53 PM.]

tbhenry
Member

From: Chattanooga /USA

posted 26 October 2005 06:33 PM     profile     
I found this on the Rayline site;

"Feb 26, 2001 According to a call we received today from Sho-Bud, orders for new steels have been temporarily halted due to a back log that Gretsch has in their drum and guitar lines. According to Ernie Gadzos, Fred Gretsch advised that while new orders for Sho-Bud guitars are being suspended, we are to inform those interested in new Sho-Bud's to be patience as orders will be accepted again in the near future. We were also informed that new parts orders will be filled within 90 days, however we currently have most parts in our own inventory. This is similar to the situation we ran into last year, when we took delivery of 4 new Sho-Buds. We are in actively involved in the increased production of Sho-Buds and as soon as we know anything further we will post the information on this site. Thank You For Your Interest in Sho-Bud and RayLine Steel Guitars."


Could this be the time when Gretch sold shobud back to the Jacksons?

Damir Besic
Member

From: La Vergne,TN

posted 26 October 2005 07:29 PM     profile     
great news...

Db

------------------

"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Bob Simmons
Member

From: Trafford, Alabama, USA

posted 26 October 2005 09:06 PM     profile     
Hey ,David , can I have my old job back now? worked with a great bunch of folks
Steve Dodson
Member

From: Sparta, Tennessee, USA

posted 26 October 2005 09:41 PM     profile     
I guess some of us should thank Shot Jackson,for not wanting to listen to any of Buddy Emmons new ideal's, he had when he was with Sho-Bud. Shot being a lot older than Buddy, didn't want no part in hearing of any changes Buddy had come up with ,which he thought would improve the guitar. So Buddy being the Genius he is,took his ideals and went his own way, and kept thinking and changing thing's,until he got them where he thought they should be. Then one great day he met up with Ron Lashley,and he liked the way Ron's mind worked along with his. And guess what All of us Emmons P/P lovers can thank Shot Jackson. Thanks to him the Emmons Guitar was born.Thank's Shot.

[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 26 October 2005 at 09:46 PM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 26 October 2005 at 09:48 PM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 26 October 2005 at 09:50 PM.]

[This message was edited by Steve Dodson on 26 October 2005 at 09:51 PM.]

Leslie Ehrlich
Member

From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

posted 26 October 2005 10:48 PM     profile     
The whole thing sounds odd to me. Reviving the Sho-Bud name and not putting it on a steel guitar.
James Morehead
Member

From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA

posted 26 October 2005 10:55 PM     profile     
Steve, Ain't America great?!!
Nick Reed
Member

From: Springfield, TN

posted 26 October 2005 11:05 PM     profile     
Hey Bobbe, when ya gonna have one at the store for us to demo? BTW, I'm one of those who didn't realize Bigsby used the cardmark decorations before Sho-Bud. I'm glad I know intelligent guys like you. NR

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 26 October 2005 at 11:15 PM.]

Dave Mudgett
Member

From: Central Pennsylvania, USA

posted 26 October 2005 11:29 PM     profile     
quote:
Is it possible that the arrival of these new guitars by the man who made more original sho buds than anyone else will cause the demise of restored quasi shobuds?

Guitar manufacturers have been reissue-crazy since the late-70s. That doesn't seem to have hurt the sales or values of classic vintage guitars one bit. There is some truth to the idea that mystique sells guitars.

Personally, I can't imagine why any steel player wouldn't welcome a modernized Sho Bud. More robust competition ==> better steels.

Ricky Davis
Moderator

From: Spring, Texas USA

posted 26 October 2005 11:36 PM     profile     
Bobbe; as being one of the "new know-it-alls" that you illude to; yes I will agree there are a lot of strange twist to the history of Sho-bud, as you well know.
So since I "know it all" I will say this> I certaily don't know it all; but I do know there were many many great folks involved with the "Making of Sho-bud" in and out through the years. You can attest to the fact that there was something different mechanically almost every year and certainly every model?? Every one of them that were building the Sho-bud; from Shot to David and Harry and Duane and Paul Sr. and so on> had something to do with it; but Shot over-saw everything, is what anyone of them fine folks will say.
I'm sorry Bobbe if I rub you the wrong way; at questioning any info you give out from being in the business for 40 years or so; and me only 20 years> But never question my passion for finding out and learning all I can about the Sho-bud history. It is possible that new/young or whatever folks, can actually learn more than the teacher; as I find that to be true from being a teacher for 20 years.
Now back to David Jackson.
I think David has a wonderful mind and has an extreme passion for the building of steel guitars and whatever he does; I'm sure it will be just fine for many folks that want his creation.
Ricky
Billy Carr
Member

From: Seminary, Mississippi USA

posted 27 October 2005 01:43 AM     profile     
One thing here on the Sho-Bud topic that really interest me is the number of players that worked at Sho-Bud that are now building there own Psg. Did these guys learn from Shot Jackson or did they simply just put together the plans he had already developed. There's some real fine builders of todays guitars being mentioned here. There's one thing that I believe and that is that most of todays guitars are compared to the early Emmons and Sho-Bud's. Add the early MSA's coming out of Texas with those and the Fender steels being discontinued and the race was on.
Craig Mckinnon
Member

From: Inverness, Highland, Scotland

posted 27 October 2005 04:59 AM     profile     
I can't imagine anyone on this forum means Ricky Davis when referring to a "know it all".Ricky gives freely & generously of his time & substantial knowledge to the benefit of everyone on this forum .Ricky has his own opinions on things (& Sho-Buds in particular) but expresses these as the true gentleman he is, in a manner that does not provoke a "flame war". I think this comes across clearly in Ricky's measured response above.
Good luck to Mr Jackson in his new enterprise, i am sure it will be a fine guitar.
Farris Currie
Member

From: Ona, Florida, USA

posted 27 October 2005 05:51 AM     profile     
Well,i've had some emails asking me what i know!!HAHAHA,NOTHING!!
I know i scream SHO-BUD all the time,and LOVE them!!!!
Number one,i'm not a pro,and never intend to be!!Im 64 and heart surgery,and have said i will never own another new guitar.
I have laughed with BRUCE,ZUMSTEEL,as i told him i'd never live long enough to order one from him with a 2yr waiting period.
I have so many GREAT MEMORIES of calling HARRY JACKSON at SHO-BUD and talking and ordering guitars,and parts ect.
One of my big questions!!WILL it be like the OLD DAYS?????be able to order direct from them,and tell them what you want???
There is something about that PERSONAL feeling that i love!!!Use to send 200.00 dollars and get one started!!!!
THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!!!!!!
I wonder if there is still plenty of good wood to build those pretty steels???
OK i'll stop!!!NOPE,I DON'T KNOW NOTHING!!
ONLY,if i can order a new one from the factory,I WILL ORDER ONE
farris

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